Dick Allen

Bulls now 5-0 since Niko came back. Generational talent. What a time to be alive.

Kaplan just said Alex Cobb is getting offers in the $80-90 million for 4 years. Pitching is getting very expensive.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:35 PM) Here's what I think is happening/is the strategy: Hahn sees Machado available for young pitching. White Sox, having such a deep farm now, almost certainly have some prospects/players that THEY think are overrated by consensus. He puts together a package of guys the Sox maybe have soured on but the rest of the industry won't catch onto for another half season or so, figuring that if he moves these guys for Machado, he can re-flip Machado for a different set of prospects at the deadline. Even if the "total value" of the return is similar or even a bit less than he paid, it could be a boon if he can get guys he likes better than those he gave up. That sounds like a "calculated risk" to me. And then, if he can extend him in-season instead, that's a bonus. But I can't believe they think an extension is anything more than a hail mary. While it could work out perfectly, the problem with it is at the deadline, there will be limited suitors, and at this time you don't know who they may be. Someone will want him for sure, but you can't be positive of a prospect upgrade. The Yankees might want him now, but might have to use their resources on another position. I don't know if that really is a calculated risk. It seems a bit risky.

Think of what the Sox had to give up for 1 year of Samardzija, and add some more. That is what their package must look like.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:46 PM) Is he even throwing yet? When would he get here like July? He was supposed to be ready for spring training. He had a re-positioning, not a re-construction. His UCL was fine, but scar tissue was causing a nerve problem.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) But that's also why I suspect the offers now are way better than many suspect on here. Why wouldn't Orioles just hold on to him until the deadline? The offers have to be good or why would they even be considered? Unless they absolutely, positively have to dump his contract, and I have never seen anything in regards to that. The orginal Athletic report said one of Kopech or Giolito but not both. Obviously that choice would be Kopech, so it has to infer that there would be additions, at least if it were Giolito.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) Honestly, think about the market at the deadline for a contending team looking to add a special offensive player to put them over the top. He may be the number one guy depending on how he performs for us, we may be able to net a better return then what we gave up to the orioles. Its possible. Definitely a game and team changer. Could easily be the difference for several teams in making and missing the playoffs. An upgrade for just about every team on the left side, especially for a contender with a major injury. It's one reason why I think Baltimore should hold on to him.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:07 PM) It's absolutely no way to claim he wont re-sign either, but people are making that claim. The point is our odds go from almost nothing to solid. I know this because if it weren't the case, Hahn wouldn't try to trade for him now. So clearly Hahn doesn't think his chances are good if he waits til FA. If the White Sox offer him enough money and everyone is qualifying it by saying they still have to pay, they will not have zero shot. KW was just bragging the other day how they just need a shot to talk to these players. He was upset Ohtani didn't give him one. Machado will. So let's see if they can make it happen. Supposedly the presentation to Tanaka was quite impressive, but he was pretty much Yankees anyway and the Sox offer was short. Several years ago, Bruce Levine staked his reputation that Omar Vizquel would sign with the Sox. SF offered him a better contract, and Bruce lost his reputation. KW got Torii Hunter all excited and ready to sign until the Angels offered more dough. Bye Torii. Money still is king, especially when you are talking about a team you have no history with and one season is hardly much history to move that needle. In the end, if the pot is right, the Sox have a shot.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) They're going to be playing a lot of young near minimum players. Also helps the luxury tax jumps up like $10mill between 18 and 19. Yes but with Stanton and Machado and Tanaka, and they still need some pitchers, their young guys will start to become more expensive, and I think they have been over the line all the time, they are going to get smoked. They will also get smoked if they sign a QO offer guy. They lose 2 draft picks and I believe $1 million in international spending.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) Seeing on twitter that Yanks announcer Michael Kay said today that Machado wants to sign with Yankees next offseason Just wonder how they would fit him in. That payroll is going to be even more ridiculous in a couple of years.

Shingo II

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Thanks. Edit: since this was posted, hasn't everyone been saying the offer isn't that great? I think it's gamesmanship. No one except the Orioles and White Sox know what the offer is. But if it isn't strong, would the Orioles really be considering it? I'm pretty sure if there was a deal, there would be a player or two, everyone would say wow, that's not exactly not a strong offer.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:49 PM) Can you direct me to this? The only thing I've seen the past day is that the package isn't that great. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...1214-story.html

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) Correct, and that's why it has been so unpopular. Like 95% of people is saying it isn't worth the risk. On the other hand, I haven't read a single person indicate that it would guarantee the white sox sign him, yet that is the direction you have chosen to beat with a giant stick into this thread for hours. Can we move on? I am just saying that it doesn't improve their odds, and if you follow White Sox history, does indicate, they really aren't committed to being the highest bidder, which, for Manny Machado, is the death knell to their chances. Paulie didn't get the most money even after the WS, Buerhle didn't get the most money and then when he did get a great offer from Miami, they told him to take it. They seem to expect guys think playing for them is like going to Disneyland and play for less. Maybe for a guy that has been around for a while that could work, but not a guy that is there for one season. And, everyone tries to qualify that, well as long as they don't give up much...that isn't going to happen either. So moving on would be deleting the entire thread. I read most of the "experts" out there, many who know Machado, many who know more MLB players than me, and the vast majority of them don't get it either. But Rick Hahn said it, and he currently is on a shrine, so it must be true. If the White Sox do make the trade and give up an impressive package as Gonzalez wrote, and Machado leaves with the Sox getting nothing, someone should be held accountable. Would you agree with that?

Until this came up, I have never read one post on this board discussing the advantages of trading prospects for prospective free agents to better position you to sign them in a year. Not when the Sox were trying to win, when it would at least make a little sense, and certainly not during a rebuild and a season where they aren't going to win.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) Now you’re just being purposely obtuse. Every single person in favor of acquiring him now also realizes we must match whatever offer he eventually gets. No one is suggesting a discount, yet you keep reverting back to this point. Letting him develop a bond with our coaches & players may create a tie-breaker if the financials are equal. I don’t know how else to explain this. Then tell me why if the White Sox offered the exact same money as the Yankees and Dodgers, the teams you mentioned, he most assuredly would sign with one of them if he didn't play for the White Sox in 2018, but if he did play for the White Sox, the same means he would stay?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:20 PM) Was just coming to post that would have been a nice deal for the Sox. Oh is my bet to be closer I think Nate Jones will close.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:17 PM) 100% this. No one here is saying it’s a slam dunk, it definitely wouldn’t be. It’s about improving their odds. You increase your chances tenfold when you buy 10 powerball tickets, yet it still doesn't work out most of the time.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) No one has said there wont be a battle. I'm not sure where you are getting that from. What we are saying is our odds go from probably 5 percent to 75 percent if he does like it here AND we pay him. If we wait for him to be a FA we have to hope he just really wants to be here for no apparent reason over other teams that are more attractive. 5 percent to 75 percent? What do you base that on? I am of the belief if the White Sox offer him a $320 million next November the chances of him signing with him playing here for a year or not, are pretty much the same. In some ways, it might even be better if he didn't come here and lose, and they could sell him on all the young talent and adding him...If he was already here and some of the talent was here and they weren't winning, which is hard to imagine with what the pitching staff is most likely going to look like, it would look almost hopeless.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:09 PM) What sound strategy have the White Sox used to attract big named MLB proven talent to sign in FA? Teams like the Sox aren't going to win FA battles often for eite talent. We end up having to trade for damaged goods and old has beens. The Sox have to get creative in finding ways to bring young elite talent here. Those guys you listed are not elite or young talents we want for the next 10 years. So you answered the question. There is still going to be a FA battle for Machado. This exercise is not creative, it's destructive. You lessen your talent pool in 2019 so you can show a player how nice you are for a season. Then another team will come along and show how much nicer they actually are by offering more money, and you will be worse off than you are now.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 02:01 PM) It's not a slam dunk at all. What is close to a slam dunk is if he does like it here and we pay up, he will more than like re-sign. Whereas if he isn't here, and he's deciding simply on money and perception, we'd probably not even get a seriously look. If this strategy is so sound, how come it is hardly ever used? Not by the White Sox, not by anyone. Bartolo Colon, Andruw Jones, Kevin Youkilis are a few guys the Sox picked up with a year or so on their deals. I know they tried to bring Colon and Youk back, but it didn't seem to work. Those guys went to other teams, where they had never played before. Luckily they didn't give up anything of significance for their services. That will be different in this case. A whiff is going to hurt, and the White Sox with a $300 million + free agent are like Adam Dunn with an 0-2 count vs. Randy Johnson in his prime.

Everyone has different experiences working or playing or eating or being in the same places. What makes it a slam dunk that Machado's experience would be so great the White Sox would be in the front of the line.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:25 PM) So just got to outbid the Yankees & Dodgers, two teams with unlimited amounts of money, by $65M or so! Seems like a flawless strategy! The flawed strategy is trading away assets for his services for a meaningless season thinking that will spur him to sign with the team. No one on this board would love to see Manny Machado in a White Sox uniform more than me. But in 2019.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 01:08 PM) What were the market dynamics at that time? Who else was involved in the bidding? How much extra did the Mariners have to offer? Yankees, Dodgers, same as the teams you worry about. Seattle gave him the best contract. That is what the White Sox will have to do with Machado, whether he plays the 2018 season for them or not.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) Robinson Cano has actually outplayed his contract so far with the Mariners. He's been worth more than what he's being paid. That could turn around in the next few seasons, but so far that's not the issue. The issue was that the team signing him wasn't competitive with him, and convinced themselves they could be incorrectly. And amazingly he signed with Seattle without ever playing there.