Dick Allen

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:21 AM) I dont think they offer him the most cash. If they aren't prepared to offer him the most cash, you have to admit the prospect he would be with the White Sox long term is minuscule, whether he goes to lunch with Ricky Renteria every day in 2018 or not.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) Not exactly the same, but Cespedes took less money/years to stay with the Mets cause he liked it there. And no one is saying this will net you Machado, it’s also about improving your chances. The bidding process for Machado (and Harper) will be amongst the most competitive in baseball history. Again, to simply think you can outbid everyone on a potential $350M deal is crazy. The top bids will all likely be very close to one another. If the Sox aren’t prepared to go the distance financially, then trading for him now would be a fireable offense. But if they’re willing to match any offer, him forming a bond with Renteria & our players could give us an edge. And the W-L record won’t matter nearly as much if he can see the type of talent we have first hand. It’s no doubt a risk, but one worth taking at the right price IMO. Mets also made the playoffs. The White Sox won't be anywhere near in 2018.

Regardless of where Machado signs, he will have his ass kissed constantly.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:13 AM) Right. This is the only logical choice right now if you actually want to acquire him. Acquire him and make his experience a pleasant one. Then shell out a competitive offer in free agency and hope that all the work you put in previously did the job. That's the way it needs to be done. So keeping your prospects and offering him the most cash next offseason is something that won't work? Machado without doubt, knows a lot of players who either play with the White Sox or have played for the White Sox. He will have an idea about "the culture" if he doesn't play in Chicago in 2018, and the White Sox try to sign him.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) But we are not offering top prospects... and we have the best offer... we wont get in a bidding war for him. No one really knows the offers, but if Machado is traded, the Orioles are going to get some pretty good prospects. Who knows, maybe Abreu and Avi are in the mix. Mark Gonzalez called the package impressive, so I doubt that is several A ball guys hoping to find their way.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:56 AM) This rumor makes absolutely no sense. I'd love Manny, but only when the Sox are ready to compete. They have a plan and offering a package of some of our top prospects (which is exactly what the Orioles will want) for a single hitter makes no sense. The Sox literally have a bunch of unknowns heading for the rotation, some awesome young arms, but still unknowns. You get Manny when you are pretty confident that you're ready to compete. This deal simply makes NO SENSE, which leads me to believe would Hahn be talking to the Orioles as a proxie for another team (Yankees) who he'd flip Manny over to? Trade off good prospects to Os for Manny, get great ones from a team who should be able to pay for Manny (Yankees) and proceed with the current model? The Sox talent is down in the farm, SOME of those kids are gonna make it, SOME will not. If we deplete those numbers the chances of the Sox being a very poor team (even with Manny) goes up. Sox rotation is going to be what? Gio and Lopez right now headline it, but they are still developing especially concerning the number of innings forced to pitch. Then you have what...Shields as your next man up? Fulmer and Covey are in the mix. Who knows there. Eventually Rodon and Kopech may well form the top end of the rotation, but Rodon is out half the year and Kopech may not be quite ready. I think Alec Hansen, if the Sox can get his mechanics more consistent could be a dominant pitcher in time, Cease and Dunning also nice looking arms. But nothing set in stone, NOTHING. WAY too many questions. I would love to have him on the White Sox. But it's best for the team if that starts in 2019.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) You continue to ignore the fact that multiple teams will likely be making very similar offers. If it comes down to non-financial factors then him being familiar with our players & coaching staff could be the difference. Unfortunately since you’re unable to value that benefit with a basic formula, you’ve decided it’s essentially worth nothing. Thank god our front office isn’t as by the book as you and doesn’t assume the “outbid everyone” strategy alone is going to work when going up against teams like the Dodgers or Yankees. I applaud creativity and this is a smart strategy assuming the right price. Are there examples where this has worked in the past with top of the line guys? And if this will net you a guy like Machado, shouldn't the "right price" be pretty steep? I also think if the White Sox have to make this move, it is admitting they won't be the top bidders. KW was upset he wasn't given the opportunity to speak to Ohtani and convince him to take the White Sox $300k. Organizations that don't think money talks are kidding themselves. Playing for a 76-86 White Sox team in 2018 isn't going to convince him to sign with the team if the Sox offer isn't the highest or pretty damn close.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) I guess I see it different. My guess is there will be a few teams who offer similar contracts and if we can set ourselves apart, while offering the same amount as another team. I mean if he likes it with us and we offer the same as another team he will choose us. If the White Sox are telling you they need him to check out everything before he hits free agency, and he will fall in love and sign an extension, they are also telling you they aren't going to be the highest offer if he gets to free agency. And he's getting to free agency.

Keep in mind the White Sox sign far more free agents that have never played for them, then traded for guys a year away "to see the culture" and then signed them. Freddy Garcia is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, and he had extenuating circumstances.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:17 AM) Trump hinting that he's considering pardoning Flynn. Good. That will put more heat on him from the right.

If it were a guarantee Machado would sign with the White Sox if they traded for him, and a guarantee he wouldn't if they did not, I would trade them Kopech. But that isn't the case. Keep the prospects and come up with a huge offer next winter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) We literally said word for word this exact post about GFloyd in 07. He had 3 or 4 balls hit to the wall in Detroit that leave 27 other ballparks. But he built on that. Floyd was a bit more successful in the minor leagues that year than Fulmer was in 2017. As Ozzie says, don't believe what you see in September.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances. If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule? Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason. Fulmer looked great in September vs. Det and SF. I wouldn't hang a hat on that. He also did really well vs. Cleveland after they clinched. Of course the bullpen did even better that game. I still have hope for Fulmer, but taking his September performance as meaningful isn't wise. Maybe it gives him some confidence. Maybe something clicked. But he really wasn't pitching typical major league baseball.

This was a 95 loss team that has added Wellington Castillo. Fulmer won't be as good as he was his last 3 starts. Pretty good odds Giolitto won't be as good as his starts, considering his ERA in AAA was about 2 runs higher. They still suck. Many growing pains are still in store.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) A part of me thinks that the Yankees have the best offer on the table for Machado but the Orioles don't want to trade him to the Yankees. It was reported the Cardinals didn't want to trade 2 of their arms to grab him. Is it entirely possible Hahn sent a low-ball offer (not including Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Hansen, Cease nor top position players) to the Orioles for Machado and it's actually being considered? Remember that their GM isn't really the smartest. Could also explain why Hahn was surprised that their offer was reported as the best. Dan Duquette is pretty bright, but they are a bit ass backwards there. If they have to fly back to Baltimore to discuss it with the owner, haven't they heard of phones? They aren't exactly new. It's a weird thing. If the White Sox aren't trading at least one of their top guys, if I am them, I am telling them to go scratch.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:31 AM) When are they normally due? Different times. Sometimes before the Winter Meetings, sometimes afterwards. The first installment used to be due in November.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Are deposits typically during or the week or two after the Winter Meetings? If so, I’m not seeing the coincidence. No. Sometimes before, sometimes after. Not typical for a dead offseason to all of a sudden have a Manny Machado trade with where the Sox are in their rebuild.

Well you can go to a conspiracy theory. First installment season ticket deposits are due today. It all could be some news to make those on the fence pony up some cash. It may be coincidence, but there always does seem to be some sort of rumor right around when they are due.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:35 PM) Cease has TOR potential and Dunning & Fulmer are former 1st round picks with upside. Cease is probably in the 75 to 90 prospect range overall, Dunning in the 90 to 110 range, and Fulmer somewhere in the top 150. I’m not sure I’d pass on a Cease+Dunning offer if I was the Orioles and that was the best offer received right now. Trading Machado allows the rest of the dominoes to fall. The longer they wait, the less they’ll get for their other guys. I already asked this, but what team do you think will give up a top prospect for one year of Manny Machado? At the deadline, it could be anybody. An injury here an injury there, an unexpected contending season...The Cubs gave up a pretty good one for a guy who fires shots at his female companion closer in 2016.They could have had him for a fraction of the price before the season started.. Manny Machado changes your team for the better instantly. If you were an Oriole fan, would you really be happy with the return you mentioned for Manny Machado?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:17 PM) Come on man, the Orioles aren’t making the playoffs this year with or without Machado. Their only choices are dealing him now for the best offer received or hope he can bring back more at the deadline. Either way, whatever they receive won’t put them back in the playoffs in a couple years. They f***ed themselves significantly by not selling a year or two ago. Their best chance is with him on the team. It probably still isn't good enough but, if I were their GM, I am not taking back a half assed package back for him at this point. They need to admit that they are basically playing for 3rd place for the foreseeable future, but maybe if they kept him everything would go right and some how they make a run this year. If not, keep him until the deadline. A contender adding him then changes things, and even if it is for a couple of months, would be worth a top prospect if it got you where everyone wants to go. Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:16 PM) As DA said, they know Manny would never sign an extension before season ends Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:53 PM) If it would be pointless, then why not grant the window to increase their return? Because they know it's a waste of time and if one team fails, all the others will finally be convinced that perhaps they aren't so special to Machado, and if they acquire him, they will be bidding against a few other teams for his services after the 2018 WS.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:52 PM) Why? If the Orioles are going to be bad either way, it stands to reason that trading him for something now is better than letting him walk and getting only a 2nd round comp pick. If the Orioles are looking at it that way, getting something of more value than that would be their floor for dealing him. The White Sox have many ways they could exceed that floor without giving up any core rebuild pieces. Avi, Fulmer, Cease is a package that I'd be okay with parting with that doesn't really tough the rebuild assets all that much, but may look better to the O's than anything else they're getting offered. Of course, that would all be with the caveat that the White Sox are committed to extending him and get the job done. Otherwise even that becomes an overpay. They have some decent players. How does Avi, Fulmer, Cease make them playoff contenders in a couple of years? They are pretty much screwed right now. Their best chance at actually winning the next 5 years is keeping Machado this year, and hoping everything goes right. Once he is gone, so is all hope in Baltimore for a long while.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:47 PM) So if he goes to the Sox, there should be no issue in dealing him there later on in the summer. You can justify it as "we traded for him and fully intended on extending him. Negotiations are far apart so we are making him available" in July completely avoiding the 18-19 games. The thing is there isn't going to be an extension. I am pretty sure Baltimore knows that or they would be negotiating with him. Probably one reason they won't grant a 72 hour window, even though that would virtually guarantee he wouldn't be traded to the Yankees, is because they know it is pointless.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:40 PM) Many seem to have not read the article as Nightengale said there's no chance the Sox would actually give Manny a huge contract It makes zero sense for the White Sox if they don't plan to sign him. If the White Sox are truly interested trading for him, I don't buy that part. Even flipping him is a risk. What if he gets hurt or has a slow start?