Dick Allen

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 19, 2017 -> 08:16 AM) You know this is the Bulls, right? You know they are gonna fall in love with try hards and create their own new core, right? I don't know. I listened to Pax last night. He seems a bit worried about the winning. Although he did preface it by saying they are catching some teams at less than full strength.I think he is committed to the suck this year. I do think they think with Dunn, Levine, and Laurie, with a high draft pick, they believe they have their winning core with a big time free agent. The free agent to me, is a pipe dream.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 19, 2017 -> 07:39 AM) Oh I agree, but the Diamondbacks rumor actually makes some sense to me form AZ’s perspective. Move some spare parts and get a huge upgrade in Machado in a going for it season and then recoup a draft pick next offseason. I just don’t see why on earth Baltimore would want those pieces. This entire thread is built on the premise Baltimore would be giving Machado away for practically nothing.

3-20 no Niko 6-0 with Niko. He should be MVP.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 10:34 PM) That's all well and good but is it just mere coincidence that he waited til his free agent year to announce he wanted to switch to SS thereby increasing his worth on the open market ? If his knees were great why not switch to SS last year or the year before? The timing is a little hinky for me to not to believe he is just minimizing the health risk factor to increase his value. The reason I mentioned him having 2 bad knees in the first place was because I heard it a few times on the MLB network. Can't remember who kept saying it, maybe Dave Valle. He was playing on a team that had some success and JJ Hardy at SS. That probably had something to do with it.

According to the Tax Policy Cwnter, the top 1 % will receive 83% of the new tax cut bill benefits.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 05:36 PM) I missed that. Got any details? They sold a non controlling part of the team to the guy who owns the South Bend minor league team, and also owns or at least owned some White Sox shares, and 5 other unnamed people. It helped pay For renovations and all the buying around the park.The Cubs are In great shape financially. A few years ago, there were some problems. They paid $845 million for the team and sold less than 10% ofor $150 million, and the team is valued at over $2 billion, and they are making money every year,. Considering they will own much of the neighborhood, money isn't going to be a problem for them.i

Jerry Jones thinks the NFL needs more men like Jerry Richardson who is forced to sell his team in disgrace. Sexual harassment, good, kneeling for the anthem, disgusting.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 11:14 AM) I edited what you responded to include the 2nd surgery. And of course after the injury, surgeries and rehabs I would hope he is "better off" but does that also mean you could say he doesn't have bad knees? I realize you have not examined him but can you say for certain that 2 surgeries for torn ligaments should classify him as having 2 healthy knees ? Did you read the second article you linked? He said exactly what Ptah said, , he had abnormal knees and this corrected that., and it won't be an issue moving forward.Since his 2nd surgery, he has missed less than 4 games per season. Not exactly DRose bad knees suff.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 08:58 AM) These are common for patella femoral pain syndrome (pain under the knee cap). He must have had congenital "loose" knee caps to have the surgeries on both knees. He will not have further issues with them and will will have healthier knees as he gets older due to the surgeries. These surgeries correct anatomical deficiencies and are not done for "injuries" unless he had a dislocated patella which isn't listed anywhere. This is exactly what he had. He also mentioned the surgeries would correct his condition and wouldn't be a problem moving forward just like you mentioned.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 04:08 AM) https://thinkprogress.org/corker-kickback-s...889f4e/?ref=yfp “Corker Kickback” sends Republicans scrambling ahead of tax bill vote http://theweek.com/speedreads/743952/sen-b...ll-now-supports On Saturday, Corker insisted he had not known about the "Corker kickback" before he switched his vote. On Sunday, he asked Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) for an explanation. "The suggestion was that it was airdropped into the conference without prior consideration by either the House or the Senate," Corker said. "Because this issue has raised concerns, I would ask that you provide an explanation of the evolution of this provision and how it made it into conference report. I think that because of many sensitivities, clarity on this issue is very important." The new tax bill won't benefit Trump at all. Believe me. He is getting calls from the rich complaining how much it will cost them. Believe me.but he won't listen to them. He is doing the right thing and making sure this benefits the middle class and lower income people. Believe me.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 18, 2017 -> 07:58 AM) Machado has two bad knees? That’s news to me He has had surgery on both knees supposedly though it corrected a structural problem that caused the knee issues or something like that. His last surgery ended his 2014 season. He has missed 11 games total the last 3 seasons. Harper seems like more of an injury risk. hehas missed at least 40 games 3 times, missed 15 in 2016, and 9 his MVP season. It is hard to imagine he gets more reliable physically the older he gets.

He definitely hit it, but if it was padded would that guarantee he wouldn't be hurt? Players get hurt running into padded walls as well.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:06 PM) The Royals have 5 picks in the first 42...that's nuts White Sox had 5 of the first 59 in 2004, and 7 of the first 89, and the only one the drafted worth a damn was Gio Gonzalez.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:27 PM) I think more often than not these negotiations top out at a certain price price. Otherwise you get exactly what happened with the Rangers & ARod where they bid against themselves. But that is what usually happens. Greinke as well with AZ. Some team will probably go nuts. If the White Sox were contenders, I could understand it. At the very least he would help you the one season he is here.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) Do you really think the Yankees are going to let $17M cost then Manny Machado? If you keep topping them, it’s almost a certainty they’ll match each & every time. Trying to outbid them will just raise the overall price. We just have to be prepared to match whatever number the Yankees settle at and that becomes a helluva lot easier if we’re his previous team & he enjoyed his time playing with us. Otherwise he may not give us that opportunity. I have no idea how the cost will be to acquire Machado, but the idea doesn’t make any sense if package required is significant and it destroys our rebuilding effort if he doesn’t resign. I’m giving Hahn the benefit of the doubt for now as I think he only does a deal if it’s on his terms and the price is moderate. If he gives up something crazy I’ll be just as pissed as you. The thing is, with the huge contracts, history suggests that not all the offers will be equal, like you seem to be banking on. Texas blew everyone out of the water for ARod. The Angels shocked the world for Pujols, and Seattle offered $70 million more than the Yankees for Cano.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) Do you really think the Yankees are going to let $17M cost then Manny Machado? If you keep topping them, it’s almost a certainty they’ll match each & every time. Trying to outbid them will just raise the overall price. We just have to be prepared to match whatever number the Yankees settle at and that becomes a helluva lot easier if we’re his previous team & he enjoyed his time playing with us. Otherwise he may not give us that opportunity. I have no idea how the cost will be to acquire Machado, but the idea doesn’t make any sense if package required is significant and it destroys our rebuilding effort if he doesn’t resign. I’m giving Hahn the benefit of the doubt for now as I think he only does a deal if it’s on his terms and the price is moderate. If he gives up something crazy I’ll be just as pissed as you. To the Yankees, if they don't get under the luxury tax, it's a lot more than that.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:05 PM) Who is saying get him for a discount? Most on here are talking about drastically overpaying. The post I was responding to said, and I agree,, the White Sox know they won't be the high bidders.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 05:00 PM) The White Sox know that they have zero chance at winning a bidding war for Manny Machado on the open market. No one else will say it, but I will. Sure they will be "competitive", and "make an impressive" offer, and maybe even be the 2nd highest bidder. They will even give the "bigger contract offered in the history of the franchise". But they won't be the top bidder, and they know it. This is a calculated gamble that if they get Machado here for a season, maybe they won't have to be the highest bidder anymore, much like they have seen with countless other players who came back to the White Sox for less money over the years. It is absolutely a gamble, but one the Sox seem to feel they have to make to have a chance at bringing one of the big boys to the White Sox. The fact we have to go back something like 25 years to talk about the last time the Sox signed a contract of this magnitude isn't lost on this franchise, and their actions now flat out tell me that they know they won't be offering the biggest deal... otherwise they wouldn't be looking at sending guys out to bring Machado here for a year early. Go back and forth about whether it is worth it or not, and how dumb it is to do this a year early, but Rick Hahn is 100% tipping the White Sox view of themselves on the free agent market by being a leading offer for Manny Machado. Despite what people hope, the White Sox actions here are telling completely different. Every White Sox player that reached free agency and came back for less, had a far longer history with the team than one season, and they weren't in the position Machado is in where he is going to sign perhaps the second or third highest contract in the history of the game. He will have players association pressure to sign the biggest contract he can.To even think the White Sox can get a discount is foolish, certainly not worth all the cost of acquiring him now.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Maybe they get the feeling that they would need to offer vastly more money than New York. however, if he is comfortable here the price may not be quite so high. The White sox will always have a middle of the road payroll. If they can save 5-10 million per year, that would allow them to build a better team around him. I have no idea if this is what they are thinking but it makes sense. anything to get an advantage to bring him to the Sox instead of the Yankees. with the Yankees getting a gift in Stanton maybe they won't break the bank for Machado. What is this based on? They were going to talk extension with Samardzija, didn't go far. Bartolo Colon took more money. Freddy Garcia stay d, but he knew Ozzie well and didn't get to free agency. It is a pipe dream to think it will make a difference. Let some other team pay him $17 million in 2018, and watch how interested he will be if you take your same offer which is as good as any other team's, and add the $17 million you would have paid him in 2018 to the $30 million or so you offer to pay him in 2019. Added bonus, you save the prospects you would have sent to Baltimore.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:48 PM) Not if they can save it to put a better team around him. If they trade for him, they will spend it on his services for a non competitive season.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:47 PM) No one is suggesting it should be discounted. It’s likely that he will get a range of offers that are generally in the same ballpark. I suspect he will then choose from those teams based on other factors. We need to be competitive in those other factors as well. Again, if the White So. Are going to be in the same range, why not just offer him an additional $17 million in year 1 to that offerthe money you would have paid him in 2018 to still lose and hurt your draft position.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:45 PM) This is absolutely ludicrous. Wouldn't an additional $17 million to his offer be better? Using the trade for him way, you have to pay him at least $17 million more than anyone else to be equal to their bid, not including the value of the package you trade for him, which, from what I can tell, you don't think needs to be very significant, which is ridiculous.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) Do you know how competitive this will be? Where have you folks been living where you think the Sox are going to compete with some of the premier teams in the league which will also be making significant offers? The Sox will need something besides money to differentiate themselves from organizations that have won more recently or other big market teams. It’s not as simple as just relying on money, unless of course you are willing to just blow everyone out of the water, which to be honest, might be more damaging to the organization than moving a few pieces to acquire him now. They need to have the most money at their disposal. Paying him $17 million for a useless season accomplishes nothing. And if they aren't prepared to be the high bidder, any talk of acquiring him should stop. This will be an historic contract. It isn't going to be discounted. These guys have egos, and Machado will have more money than he ever needs at a fraction of what he will be paid. He wants his name up there.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:25 PM) I don't understand why we are making this idiotic decision. Just offer Machado the most amount of money next offseason. And the ironic thing is, if they don't trade for him, they won't have to pay him in 2018 leaving them more money in the bank for the offer after the season, not to mention the prospect cost. I have the feeling if Rick Hahn said he got the idea from KW, at least a couple of people who thinks this makes sense would change their minds.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) If they give up those three guys it’s a terrible trade IMO. Hansen should not be a part of these discussions. And for the millionth time, it’s not just about the “culture” as you conveniently call it to mock the idea. It’s about him forming a bond with the players & coaches and generally becoming comfortable with the organization. Have you ever formed bonds with coworkers? Have you ever enjoyed working at a certain company? It’s amazing to me how foreign of a concept this is to you. No doubt money talks, but all along we have said over & over again the money has to be there too or this is all for naught. And how does your idea of using projected surplus value as part of our bid work exactly? Surplus value is all based on opportunity cost of NOT having to pay market rate for production. How are you turning these three prospects into actual cash flow? And what happens if they bust? If it is about forming bonds, and not all about money, how come he isn't signing with Baltimore? The other fact is, many , most of the bonds he will form with the 2018 White Sox will be short lived as turnover is very common in the game especially with rebuilding teams.