Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 12:18 PM) What teams have traditionally signed all the major free agents? Pretty sure you’ll notice a trend. That’s not to say we can’t sign a major free agent, but trying to sign a generational talent like Machado will be an uphill battle given the demand and players involved. I’m willing to give up a small package of talent now if my odds increase significantly. Yes, I have noticed the teams that pay the most money sign the most and best free agents.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) It's the weirdest logic I've seen. Money & contract details is 99% of it. If the Sox aren't planning on making/matching the best offer they have no chance at him whether he plays half a season here or not. I agree. With very few exceptions, it's always about the money. And I don't blame them a bit. There are a lot of MLB cities I could be very happy in if I had $300 million + coming my way. Ironically, Albert Belle left the White Sox to go to where Machado would be coming from after 2 years with in White Sox culture. Got paid more money.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:26 AM) I'll still offer them a trade of all the money back after ARod's opt out in exchange for them giving up the 2009 world series title. Do you think they take it? I think they could have re-allocated the funds and probably still have won.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:29 AM) Better be a hell of a presentation if it can convey a human connection as well S six to eight months with actual people would. And I’m not sure Turner is going to prevent the Dodgers from pursuing a generational talent. How do teams including the White Sox ever sign free agents if they need to play with them for a season to get the lay of the land? Won't these other teams you are worrying about have the same issue?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:21 AM) If you're locking him up for 10 years 300+ million there's no opt out. It would probably be a dealbreaker for me. Having an opt out at say 28 would be brutal. He'd almost assuredly take it and would leave the Sox holding all the downside risk on the deal and none of the upside. These opt outs are poison pills. They are also godsends to ownership if they can help themselves. When Belle opted out, huge favor to JR, when ARod opted out, Yankees would have loved to have passed, same with Sabatthia. Give Machado an opt out after his age 30 or 31 season. And then have the discipline to let him play his declining seasons, even if he has a couple of decent ones in him, somewhere else. And reallocate the funds.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:13 AM) This I agree with. They have to be prepared to match any offer or at least offer fair market value like bmags implies (say $350M). If they’re expecting a discount they shouldn’t waste their time & prospects. I don’t believe they’re expecting a discount though. The White Sox MO has been not paying the top price but relying on the selling job and signing players for a little less. Albert Belle was an exception. Not many others, if any. That's why I assume the hey check us out, see how nice we are, attempt, would be an attempt to get a top of the line player at a discount price, because hey aren't we nice?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:14 AM) If a deal for Machado does go down today or this weekend and the Sox end up getting him, there could be an explosion on the board. I've been checking in every 30 minutes or so half expecting the error message pop up saying the site is too busy. At the very least, it would be fun to see him play in 2018. But if they do get him and don't re-sign him, or eventually flip him for prospects at least as highly thought of as the ones they give up, I'm with Balta, heads need to roll.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:09 AM) Hypothetically they could move Seager to 2B. Really would not put that past the Dodgers. I think the Dodgers would be more inclined to go after Harper.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:04 AM) There are other teams that plan on offering him the most cash as well. He’s going to be one of the most desired free agents in baseball history. I can’t believe you think it’s as simple as offering the most money when the Yankees & Dodgers will be involved. There will be multiple teams that likely end up in the same basic range by the end of the process. Again, his decision will likely come down to non-financial considerations. Our best bet of landing Machado is to form a bond with the player (this is more than just culture) and then be prepared to match any offer he receives. If we go in without that benefit, landing him is going to be an uphill battle. I can't believe you think having him play a non competitive season for the team will help the White Sox cause. The Dodgers have Seager and Turner at SS and 3B. The Yankees may or may not be in the market for a 3B next season. If the White Sox want to sign the player, they are going to have to offer him the most attractive deal. He can talk to Ricky Renteria during negotiations. They can put together a presentation.

Does Machado not like the culture in Baltimore?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:35 AM) Yep they were an exciting team with a lot of exposure and IIRC, the deal he took was worth more over first few years than others offered. Instead of using Cespedes as an example, JUpton is a better one. And he re-negotiated. It isn't obvious he would have been paid more elsewhere. JR has to go at this like he did with Albert Belle. He asked what it would take, Belle's camp told him, he said OK. At this point players>money.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:21 AM) I dont think they offer him the most cash. If they aren't prepared to offer him the most cash, you have to admit the prospect he would be with the White Sox long term is minuscule, whether he goes to lunch with Ricky Renteria every day in 2018 or not.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) Not exactly the same, but Cespedes took less money/years to stay with the Mets cause he liked it there. And no one is saying this will net you Machado, it’s also about improving your chances. The bidding process for Machado (and Harper) will be amongst the most competitive in baseball history. Again, to simply think you can outbid everyone on a potential $350M deal is crazy. The top bids will all likely be very close to one another. If the Sox aren’t prepared to go the distance financially, then trading for him now would be a fireable offense. But if they’re willing to match any offer, him forming a bond with Renteria & our players could give us an edge. And the W-L record won’t matter nearly as much if he can see the type of talent we have first hand. It’s no doubt a risk, but one worth taking at the right price IMO. Mets also made the playoffs. The White Sox won't be anywhere near in 2018.

Regardless of where Machado signs, he will have his ass kissed constantly.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:13 AM) Right. This is the only logical choice right now if you actually want to acquire him. Acquire him and make his experience a pleasant one. Then shell out a competitive offer in free agency and hope that all the work you put in previously did the job. That's the way it needs to be done. So keeping your prospects and offering him the most cash next offseason is something that won't work? Machado without doubt, knows a lot of players who either play with the White Sox or have played for the White Sox. He will have an idea about "the culture" if he doesn't play in Chicago in 2018, and the White Sox try to sign him.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) But we are not offering top prospects... and we have the best offer... we wont get in a bidding war for him. No one really knows the offers, but if Machado is traded, the Orioles are going to get some pretty good prospects. Who knows, maybe Abreu and Avi are in the mix. Mark Gonzalez called the package impressive, so I doubt that is several A ball guys hoping to find their way.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:56 AM) This rumor makes absolutely no sense. I'd love Manny, but only when the Sox are ready to compete. They have a plan and offering a package of some of our top prospects (which is exactly what the Orioles will want) for a single hitter makes no sense. The Sox literally have a bunch of unknowns heading for the rotation, some awesome young arms, but still unknowns. You get Manny when you are pretty confident that you're ready to compete. This deal simply makes NO SENSE, which leads me to believe would Hahn be talking to the Orioles as a proxie for another team (Yankees) who he'd flip Manny over to? Trade off good prospects to Os for Manny, get great ones from a team who should be able to pay for Manny (Yankees) and proceed with the current model? The Sox talent is down in the farm, SOME of those kids are gonna make it, SOME will not. If we deplete those numbers the chances of the Sox being a very poor team (even with Manny) goes up. Sox rotation is going to be what? Gio and Lopez right now headline it, but they are still developing especially concerning the number of innings forced to pitch. Then you have what...Shields as your next man up? Fulmer and Covey are in the mix. Who knows there. Eventually Rodon and Kopech may well form the top end of the rotation, but Rodon is out half the year and Kopech may not be quite ready. I think Alec Hansen, if the Sox can get his mechanics more consistent could be a dominant pitcher in time, Cease and Dunning also nice looking arms. But nothing set in stone, NOTHING. WAY too many questions. I would love to have him on the White Sox. But it's best for the team if that starts in 2019.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) You continue to ignore the fact that multiple teams will likely be making very similar offers. If it comes down to non-financial factors then him being familiar with our players & coaching staff could be the difference. Unfortunately since you’re unable to value that benefit with a basic formula, you’ve decided it’s essentially worth nothing. Thank god our front office isn’t as by the book as you and doesn’t assume the “outbid everyone” strategy alone is going to work when going up against teams like the Dodgers or Yankees. I applaud creativity and this is a smart strategy assuming the right price. Are there examples where this has worked in the past with top of the line guys? And if this will net you a guy like Machado, shouldn't the "right price" be pretty steep? I also think if the White Sox have to make this move, it is admitting they won't be the top bidders. KW was upset he wasn't given the opportunity to speak to Ohtani and convince him to take the White Sox $300k. Organizations that don't think money talks are kidding themselves. Playing for a 76-86 White Sox team in 2018 isn't going to convince him to sign with the team if the Sox offer isn't the highest or pretty damn close.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) I guess I see it different. My guess is there will be a few teams who offer similar contracts and if we can set ourselves apart, while offering the same amount as another team. I mean if he likes it with us and we offer the same as another team he will choose us. If the White Sox are telling you they need him to check out everything before he hits free agency, and he will fall in love and sign an extension, they are also telling you they aren't going to be the highest offer if he gets to free agency. And he's getting to free agency.

Keep in mind the White Sox sign far more free agents that have never played for them, then traded for guys a year away "to see the culture" and then signed them. Freddy Garcia is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, and he had extenuating circumstances.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:17 AM) Trump hinting that he's considering pardoning Flynn. Good. That will put more heat on him from the right.

If it were a guarantee Machado would sign with the White Sox if they traded for him, and a guarantee he wouldn't if they did not, I would trade them Kopech. But that isn't the case. Keep the prospects and come up with a huge offer next winter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) We literally said word for word this exact post about GFloyd in 07. He had 3 or 4 balls hit to the wall in Detroit that leave 27 other ballparks. But he built on that. Floyd was a bit more successful in the minor leagues that year than Fulmer was in 2017. As Ozzie says, don't believe what you see in September.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances. If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule? Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason. Fulmer looked great in September vs. Det and SF. I wouldn't hang a hat on that. He also did really well vs. Cleveland after they clinched. Of course the bullpen did even better that game. I still have hope for Fulmer, but taking his September performance as meaningful isn't wise. Maybe it gives him some confidence. Maybe something clicked. But he really wasn't pitching typical major league baseball.

This was a 95 loss team that has added Wellington Castillo. Fulmer won't be as good as he was his last 3 starts. Pretty good odds Giolitto won't be as good as his starts, considering his ERA in AAA was about 2 runs higher. They still suck. Many growing pains are still in store.