Dick Allen

Even with Q and Sale 2 guys that if traded are supposed to bring enough talent back to set the White Sox up for years, they finished 14th in MLB in pitching the last 2 seasons. 27th in 2014, and 20th in 2013. Keepimg him is fine, but his Guru status with some is ridiculous. Coop will fix 'em has pretty much gone by the boards.

And this election is ova!

Texas is real sloppy today. It may be because they had several days off.

People who don't believe in pitch framing being legit need to watch this game.

Love the Drake.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 04:39 PM) Lots (all?) of Trump's empire is organized as S-Corps, so profits and losses all flow through to the owner(s). If Trump Casino, S-Corp loses $10M in a given year, it's going to flow through to his personal returns. There are financial reasons to structure companies these ways but it'd been a while since I took 1 semester of business law and I'm sure Jason or any of the other financial guys could explain it way better. What's funny is all of the calling him a "genius" with the tax code. For some reason, I don't think Trump sits in his office until midnight on April 15th working on his tax return.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 12:01 AM) I'm more expecting a partial dismantling, which is to say at least one of the Aces is gone and probably a bat or two. I don't mind being mad as part of a rebuild. I DO mind being unwatchable in go for it every year mode. Their going for it mode is going to change. Hahn mentioned "half measures" which we all have termed half assed, as not working out. I agree a partial dismantling is going to happen, but I also think the half assed signings, are a thing of the past. As was pointed out, they are fine to fill a spot, but counting on several of them to work out is insane. It may happen, but you may win the lottery if you buy a ticket.

Frazier hit .169 with RISP and .202 with men on base and still drove in 98. You have to figure a bit of a bounce back next season.

QUOTE (Moe @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 02:24 PM) Cooper is the only lock, I'm sure, and I could see McEwing on the bench also. I'm not sold on Steverson- too many bad approaches at the plate! Hawk says Steverson says the right things during BP but when the game starts, the players abandon what he was telling them. At the event I was at, RH did say they knew the team would be OBP challenged, but did seem disappointed that no one really got to the high end of what they were projecting, so I do think Steverson's seat is pretty hot.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) I could see Super Joe McEwing being promoted to Bench Coach. I wonder if he would want to move on after being passed over for the top job. Trying to use logic, if everyone were coming back, I think they would have said something. There are going to be some changes IMO.

Minnesota's stadium is pretty outstanding.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) Lol...GTFO. You literally pollute every thread with your constant need to play devil's advocate or simply pick a fight with Caulfield over pretty much anything he says. Meanwhile, I'm defending a big chunk of this board who believes Robin was a class act (see my post on page 1) but are objective enough to admit he's a bad manager (see all your posts). I'm not going to sit back while someone uses your token move, the gross generalization of the entire board, to troll us posters who had been nothing but respectful in this thread. Defending the board going in the Robin Ventura appreciation thread for more complaining? That's rich. It's also rich you mention my posts yet you feel it's OK for YOU to pollute an appreciation thread with more b****ing. The fact of the matter is Eminor is totally correct.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:24 AM) The vast majority of posters here primarily blame the front office and/or ownership for this mess. There are a handful of posters who think Robin is the primary reason for our recent failures, but they are few and far between. The truth is Robin is just one of many problems with this organization, and while a smaller one in the grand scheme of things, he's also an easily correctable one. These problems aren't mutually exclusive, so replacing Robin makes the team by even a single game the move makes sense. That's what most posters here believe IMO. This is the Robin Ventura appreciation thread, not the still b****ing about Robin Ventura thread.

My brother pointed something out to me. When Robin played, I really wasn't nearly the fan a lot of others were. We called him the Boy Wonder, and on occasion the Boy Blunder. I liked him, but I really didn't appreciate him as a player all that much. The weird part is many of those who just loved him as a player, hated him as a manager. I didn't love him as a player (although looking back, he was better than pretty good) and had no problem with his managing.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Sox do not have a protected pick at #12. I do not see any big name free agents signing that cost that pick. Trades only way team improves. I do not see what changes with Renteria he was here all year and knows the pecking order. I am sure the roster is going to look significantly different next season. They are really stressing OBP offensively.

Great career, but compiler makes sense. Only hit 30 doubles twice. Never hit more than 25 homers. Only stole as many as 10 bases once. Never walked 75 times. Consistent as can be. A huge weapon in the line up, but if he's a HOFer, they need to open up several more wings. And I don't hold being primarily a DH against him. The voters have to come to grips with the fact that the DH has been a position for over 40 years.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Case For Inducation: His 2866 hits and 1628 RBIs are the most of any eligible player, without PED suspicion that is not in the HOF. .289/.356/.465 - 121 OPS+ 384 HRs (65th all time) 1628 RBIs (32nd all time) 2866 Hits (45th all time) 4604 Total Bases (41st all time) 1606 Runs Created (69th all time) 6X All Star 1X Silver Slugger 2X Top 10 MVP voting 2X Edgar Martinez Award winnger Case Against Induction: 38.4 fWAR - far short of the 60 that Bill James has used as a standard to talk HOF DH factor - 1643 games as DH, just 1061 in the OF Classic Compiler He was a pretty good OF before the leg problems. Not a HOFer in my mind. Defintely a could have been.

They didn't discuss the coaches at all today, correct? I think they have liked Renteria for a while, so the hiring makes some sense for them. Perhaps why they aren't announcing the rest of the staff's status is they are waiting to talk to some people. I know Haber was the guy given the credit for bringing in Steverson. You have to figure he is on the hot seat. At the season ticketholder event I was at, Hahn did state they all knew the Sox were going to be OBP challenged. They had conversations with Steverson about trying to max some guys. He did say they were at the low end of the range they had figured. I know they really like Super Joe, but I wonder if he even wants to be back considering he probably feels a bit shafted not being considered or if he was, being the loser in the manager job. Boston seems replaceable.

Judging managers on W-L pct. is at least as dumb as judging pitchers by it. There isn't a manager yet that has won anything of significance with a bad team.

Free agents tend to get overpaid. Reddick is going to get overpaid. Some guys are worth overpaying. I don't think he is.

Lip needed to interview Robin and he wouldn't bash him so much. Just look at the managers he interviewed and has name dropped over the years. Chuck Tanner has virtually the same winning percentage as a manager Robin had. Throw away 1990 for Jeff Torborg, and his is worse. And he got fired by a team below .500 who went on the win the WS that year.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) I get the vibe from Hahn that we're selling but all those reports that came out were saying we're looking to make a big free agency splash, so now I'm just confused. Keep in mind the splash, while from a guy who was very right for a while, is from a guy who has been pretty wrong as well. The Sale incident, KW leaving... But maybe they do both. Trade Sale and/or Q and sign some free agents. I just don't think they would give up the draft pick for anyone who is less than spectacular.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) A lot of us were saying the same thing. And Saladino couldn't stay healthy either.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I generally tend to defend FO decisions, if only because everyone around here vehemently pretends to have enough information to call everything black and white when the truth is that none of us have any idea what we're talking about. But even I have to join the criticism bandwagon for the last 7-8 months of decision-making. 1. To this day, I feel like they foolishly cut the acquisitions short during the latter half of the offseason. There were a million good short AND long-term reasons to lay out for a final OF bat (and/or Ian Desmond), and they fell short. I don't get the strategy there. 2. The Shields thing was always terrible. I spent way too much time around here digging up and typing out the reasons we shouldn't sign him when he was a free agent, and ALL of them still applied to trading for him. I thought passing on Shields as a free agent was evidence that Hahn took pitching peripherals seriously, but when he made the trade, I now have to wonder what info he's using. Speaking of Desmond, he basically was Jimmy Rollins in the second half. He would have helped the first half, but his second half collapse would most assuredly not led the Sox to the playoffs, and Robin would be blamed for a choke.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) It's not that there's anything wrong with having two people in charge, it's that in the specific case of the Sox, there's so much evidence that they're disorganized and/or pulling in opposite directions. Disagreements are one thing, and they're probably even healthy, but some of the weird quotes that have gotten out just make the Sox seem dysfunctional. We hear things, it doesn't mean it's true. They have been together for most of this century. I would imagine if there was a huge conflict, Hahn would have tried a bit harder for other jobs. Maybe KW got bored with his new role and started meddling. We don't know. I do think KW and JR should let RH generally manage if they make him the GM. If they don't, I don't understand the promotion. KW should make it clear that RH runs the show. If he can't do that, he should either let people know, or he should take a walk. That said, I don't buy Hahn is totally against the bad moves that are made. If he was and he spins for them, he is weak, and you wouldn't want that as a GM anyway.