Dick Allen

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Sox do not have a protected pick at #12. I do not see any big name free agents signing that cost that pick. Trades only way team improves. I do not see what changes with Renteria he was here all year and knows the pecking order. I am sure the roster is going to look significantly different next season. They are really stressing OBP offensively.

Great career, but compiler makes sense. Only hit 30 doubles twice. Never hit more than 25 homers. Only stole as many as 10 bases once. Never walked 75 times. Consistent as can be. A huge weapon in the line up, but if he's a HOFer, they need to open up several more wings. And I don't hold being primarily a DH against him. The voters have to come to grips with the fact that the DH has been a position for over 40 years.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Case For Inducation: His 2866 hits and 1628 RBIs are the most of any eligible player, without PED suspicion that is not in the HOF. .289/.356/.465 - 121 OPS+ 384 HRs (65th all time) 1628 RBIs (32nd all time) 2866 Hits (45th all time) 4604 Total Bases (41st all time) 1606 Runs Created (69th all time) 6X All Star 1X Silver Slugger 2X Top 10 MVP voting 2X Edgar Martinez Award winnger Case Against Induction: 38.4 fWAR - far short of the 60 that Bill James has used as a standard to talk HOF DH factor - 1643 games as DH, just 1061 in the OF Classic Compiler He was a pretty good OF before the leg problems. Not a HOFer in my mind. Defintely a could have been.

They didn't discuss the coaches at all today, correct? I think they have liked Renteria for a while, so the hiring makes some sense for them. Perhaps why they aren't announcing the rest of the staff's status is they are waiting to talk to some people. I know Haber was the guy given the credit for bringing in Steverson. You have to figure he is on the hot seat. At the season ticketholder event I was at, Hahn did state they all knew the Sox were going to be OBP challenged. They had conversations with Steverson about trying to max some guys. He did say they were at the low end of the range they had figured. I know they really like Super Joe, but I wonder if he even wants to be back considering he probably feels a bit shafted not being considered or if he was, being the loser in the manager job. Boston seems replaceable.

Judging managers on W-L pct. is at least as dumb as judging pitchers by it. There isn't a manager yet that has won anything of significance with a bad team.

Free agents tend to get overpaid. Reddick is going to get overpaid. Some guys are worth overpaying. I don't think he is.

Lip needed to interview Robin and he wouldn't bash him so much. Just look at the managers he interviewed and has name dropped over the years. Chuck Tanner has virtually the same winning percentage as a manager Robin had. Throw away 1990 for Jeff Torborg, and his is worse. And he got fired by a team below .500 who went on the win the WS that year.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) I get the vibe from Hahn that we're selling but all those reports that came out were saying we're looking to make a big free agency splash, so now I'm just confused. Keep in mind the splash, while from a guy who was very right for a while, is from a guy who has been pretty wrong as well. The Sale incident, KW leaving... But maybe they do both. Trade Sale and/or Q and sign some free agents. I just don't think they would give up the draft pick for anyone who is less than spectacular.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:27 AM) A lot of us were saying the same thing. And Saladino couldn't stay healthy either.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) I generally tend to defend FO decisions, if only because everyone around here vehemently pretends to have enough information to call everything black and white when the truth is that none of us have any idea what we're talking about. But even I have to join the criticism bandwagon for the last 7-8 months of decision-making. 1. To this day, I feel like they foolishly cut the acquisitions short during the latter half of the offseason. There were a million good short AND long-term reasons to lay out for a final OF bat (and/or Ian Desmond), and they fell short. I don't get the strategy there. 2. The Shields thing was always terrible. I spent way too much time around here digging up and typing out the reasons we shouldn't sign him when he was a free agent, and ALL of them still applied to trading for him. I thought passing on Shields as a free agent was evidence that Hahn took pitching peripherals seriously, but when he made the trade, I now have to wonder what info he's using. Speaking of Desmond, he basically was Jimmy Rollins in the second half. He would have helped the first half, but his second half collapse would most assuredly not led the Sox to the playoffs, and Robin would be blamed for a choke.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) It's not that there's anything wrong with having two people in charge, it's that in the specific case of the Sox, there's so much evidence that they're disorganized and/or pulling in opposite directions. Disagreements are one thing, and they're probably even healthy, but some of the weird quotes that have gotten out just make the Sox seem dysfunctional. We hear things, it doesn't mean it's true. They have been together for most of this century. I would imagine if there was a huge conflict, Hahn would have tried a bit harder for other jobs. Maybe KW got bored with his new role and started meddling. We don't know. I do think KW and JR should let RH generally manage if they make him the GM. If they don't, I don't understand the promotion. KW should make it clear that RH runs the show. If he can't do that, he should either let people know, or he should take a walk. That said, I don't buy Hahn is totally against the bad moves that are made. If he was and he spins for them, he is weak, and you wouldn't want that as a GM anyway.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) He's not a coach. I doubt he's going anywere. I am sure the bullpen guys, Thigpen and the man Mark Salas, will hang around too. Can't ever get rid of the Chief.

Harry Caray and Sportsvision almost 35 years ago are what people are blaming the discrepancy of the attendance on the north and south sides. Can someone explain to me why, the first 3 years Harry was with the Cubs, and when Sportsvision was a pay per view hardly anyone was wired for, the Sox outdrew the Cubs? 1984 happened, and it set the Cubs up for what seems like could be forever. It applies to other Chicago teams. The Bears will sellout no matter how horrid their team. The Bulls used to play to a pretty empty Chicago Stadium. Then Michael Jordan happened, and now they draw no matter what. They had the worst 2 or 4 year stretch in the history of the NBA after Jordan retired, and still led the league in attendance or were very close to it. It will be interesting to see how the Blackhawks do when they go bad. It should be a pretty long time so perhaps they will be OK.

They aren't going to fire themselves. It's a group effort. It never was Hahn was the brains behind the good stuff, KW and JR were the idiots behind the bad. They all are responsible. Unless JR sells or someone resigns, it's going to be the decision making line up no matter what the results. What scares me is Hahn is already boasting about this last draft. That is way too soon, and puts a little more pressure on these new pros. We were all pretty excited about Courtney Hawkins after a couple of months. Let them develop without the burden. Chances are most will be nothing.

Class to the end. He was in a situation no one would have succeeded. The holy triumvirate of RH,KW and JR know this, that's why all the "loyalty". Hopefully they will strengthen the roster to where they will win more. I'm OK with Renteria, but Paul Sullivan isn't very impressed.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Valid point. Even though everyone is bored with it, there are those that still continue to take any opportunity to take a jab at Sox fans, and try to compare Cubs = Superior fans. Vs Sox = Inferior fans. Which then, adds a spark to tired debate You follow? As far as supporting their team, they are superior. All oher aspects, definitely not.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) It's absolutely a strong showing given the park's capacity. Get a grip. No it's not. It isn't league average. Besides, if there was demand for more tickets to be sold in worse seats, they would have filled the seats that were available. Another laughable comment that makes no sense.if they can't sell the seats available, they aren't going to sell more if more are available They also had an extra home game last year. That one did sell out.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) Do Team Presidents/ GMs attend after season press conferences after being let go? Did Schuler attend the press conference when Jerry fired him and promoted KW? You could have a point but I'm just curious, because it's been so long since changes were made at the top. I don't really remember but I think it was a foregone conclusion Schuler was retiring. This would be a huge story one worthy of its own press conference. And unlike Robin, he wouldn't have to wait until all the games were played.

I am sure the meeting with Robin isn't to try to get him to change his mind but they are going to iron out how it all goes down tomorrow.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) Well, in 2008, the last time the Sox went to the postseason and one of only five times in the past 56 years they've done so, they drew 2.5 million plus fans to the park. Last I looked, that was considered a very strong attendance showing. Now why you keep bringing up 2012, I'll never know. They didn't win anything that year. They did not go to the postseason, so it doesn't even matter. Throw it on the scrap heap with the other 50 years of non-postseason appearances of the past 56 years and forget about it already. So not even league average is a strong showing. You are funny.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 07:30 AM) Oh no? 1983 - White Sox first Chicago baseball team to draw two million fans. 2006 - Sox max out on season ticket packages, draw just short of three million with nearly 60 sell outs that season. Only the reduced capacity of the ballpark due to Reinsdorf lopping off the top eight rows of the upper deck a few seasons prior prevents the Sox from blowing attendance records out of the water that year. So now he is an asshole for cutting down the upper deck. You are hysterical. By the way the 66-96 Cubs drew about 2500 more per game in 2006.

If you look at this logically, with what WSD is reporting, I don't think KW is leaving. With Robin, after the leak they wanted him back, but the leak no negotiation and the news there would be a press conference the day after the season ended, it would lean toward Robin isn't coming back. And that is what happened. WSD said KW wouldn't be at the press conference. If he really was resigning, wouldn't he be there to answer questions? Love him or hate him, he has been around forever, and walking away with no answers as to why doesn't add up.

Renteria being the bench coach had a say in most of the decisions some call Robin a fool for making. If you really don't think Robin had clue, you should probably not like this hire.

QUOTE (Baron @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 07:15 PM) Sorry Robin but..... Lots of Kenny Williams leaving rumors out there From anyone legit?

Renteria has been praised for his work with young players. Bringing Robin back and taking a step back is only going to make the people who think managers are worth 15 wins a season more frothy at the mouth. Another sign of a rebuild.