Dick Allen

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) There's never been a decent reliever picked at #26 so obviously it was a bad pick. You are missing the point. #26 picks historically haven't been all that great. Not just the White Sox but league wide. In fact, the White Sox drafted one of the most successful #26 overall picks in the last 25 years, Mark Johnson. Not exactly a guy you can build a team around. If this guy is successful, it's a good pick. Even though he's ONLY a reliever. Like those guys aren't getting more important by the minute these days.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) The point is that you don't draft CEILING relief pitchers in the first round. You hope for better...some will work out and others won't. I they don't work out as starters then they can be reliever. Your logic would field a 60 win team...let's use our first round picks for guys were confident can be relievers and utility infielders...whoopee! What the Sox lack are impact players. These players must usually be drafted or signed internationally. Williams and Hahn have done a particularly poor job at org building. And let's be honest. Burdi was drafted to help the pen THIS year; Now that even Williams, Hahn and their Ouiji Board have to realize the Sox aren't in it, it's time to develop him as a starter. Too bad Courtney Hawkins wasn't available. If the guy can pitch, it's a good pick. The Tigers took Andrew Miller with the #8 pick. He's a reliever. I bet there are a lot of teams drafting 1-26 that year that would have loved to have had him.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) best guys picked between #25 and #30: Alan Trammell Mike Trout George Brett Mike Schmidt Trout was #25. Burdi was #26. The other guys were drafted in 1976, 1971, and 1971. So 40-45 years ago. If Burdi is a solid relief pitcher, the Sox will have drafted well at #26.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) If Williams/Hahn insist on drafting players in the first round to fill relief roles, I have no problem starting the clock. But poor organizational building, including stuff such as this, is why the Sox are where they are organizationally and with the major league team: hopelessly non-competitive when trying to win. Show me how many #26 overall draft picks contributed more than a decent relief pitcher the last 24 years. Nate Jones is about a half a season away from matching all of their WAR totals combined. But keep thinking they should have drafted a first ballot HOFer there. Besides, relievers values are only going higher.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously. What will be interesting is what the Cubs use to fill time on their station, especially during the offseason. I suppose the Shuffleboard World Championship could be a big draw. The Cubs, I am sure, would love a partner. But it obviously won't be the Bulls. I really doubt Rocky will blow off JR either. Maybe the Bears would be willing to throw some content on their station, but how much?

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 09:06 AM) It's amazing how much this mirrors the Bulls now. It has for a while. KW is Krause. The guy that won that now has no clue. Hahn is Paxson, the guy everyone can't wait to really take over, until he actually takes over.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 08:18 AM) The fact that JR went out of his way to debunk the rumor pretty much confirms it was true. They only go that public when they have to lie. He's certainly not going to confirm there is a problem, but the other rumor was Hahn is leaving. JR's comments seem to indicate neither Hahn or KW are going anywhere.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) nobody knows which of the triumvirate was responsible for any particular move. I hold them all responsible for each move good and bad.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Well respected around the league, and not really given a chance to put his stamp on the team. There are now 2 reports in 2 of the last 3 years where Hahn wanted to rebuild only to be shot down by JR and KW. The trades where Hahn has "sold" on, they were pretty damn good trades. Peavy netted Montas (who got Frazier), Wendelken (who got Lawrie), Avi, and Rondon. Santiago got Eaton. Jennings for Rienzo. Almonte for Beckham (then traded for Kahnle, still hate that trade). Duke for Tilson. Overall not bad when we sold high on players But if he has no power, how can you give him the credit for those trades? They would have to be KW's?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) I agree, but I just think that the problems with this franchise is JR and KW than Hahn. Hahn is paddling the same boat as the other 2.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) Drafting, player development has gotten better under Hahn. In terms of actually having a plan, he can't execute his plan because KW and JR don't sign off on it. If you are saying his hands are tied and his plan cannot be executed, how can you say he has anything to do with drafting better and better player development? Basically, if any what has been reported is true, Hahn's role really hasn't changed much since before the Sox won the WS. This is getting back to anything good has to be Hahn, anything bad is KW and JR. It just couldn't be accurate.

QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) And is the franchise in much better shape now than it was then? What has Rick Hahn done to give him any sort of pass? That's what I don't get. Why do people automatically think Hahn has all the answers? He was trained by KW and JR. He has been part of the decision making process for well over a decade. Saying if they would just listen to him everything would be OK is dreaming. If he flees, which I doubt, it will indicate there is some sort of problem or JR was going to jack him anyway.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) Are Williams and Reinsdorf not more to blame? They are the ones in charge and won't let Hahn do his job as the team's GM. It's also out there that Hahn wanted to rebuild the off season going into '14 I believe, but was told not too. Hahn then had to adjust his plans, and then acquired Samardzija. JR and KW want to compete, give the team some money to play with instead of 18 million wasted on Latos, Rollins, Jackson, and Albers. Finally, Hahn wanted to rebuild this trade deadline, was told not having any of that. Hahn is tied at the hands with what he can do. First off, we really don't know for sure what the actual facts are. Trading Samardzija, might have been his idea, but I'm kind of excited about Burdi. Rebuilding can still be done in the offseason this year. If his hands have been tied since the get go, there is no reason a person with any pride would continue the way he has.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) I agree, but Hahn has only been "in charge" for 3 years. What is out there that would indicate KW and JR are stooges and RH is not? He's been part of the operation and decision making process for more than a few years. Rick Hahn has been the proverbial back up QB for years. Always very popular until you actually have to put him in a game.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) Brian Bilek ‏@BrianBilek_ 43m43 minutes ago Brian Bilek Retweeted RockChalk Hahn would have to be offered a promotion to be relieved of his contract. Maybe he has the same type of contract as KW where there is an automatic rollover. Basically if KW got fired, he would get a year's severance. But even with a possible promotion, JR wouldn't let him talk to Toronto. KW then contemplated resigning, but realized that wouldn't be very bright.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) He can only get out of his contract if he were to be promoted. Anyone can quit. He has a law degree, an MBA if JR wouldn't let him go somewhere else, but I doubt JR would want him around if Hahn didn't want to be around.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Hahn seems like a simpleton or completely gullible to me. I don't see how the guy went to Harvard Law or whatever it was. That's one reason I am not fully buying this. Maybe he did want to do a total rebuild. That still can be done. It doesn't mean he has been against every move made the last 2 years, and if he was, he's a wuss for still being there.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) No. Kaplan said that Hahn's contract is up after the season. He said that the person he spoke with said that Hahn should give JR an ultimatum. He said this because this person believes that Hahn would get another job in 8 seconds. Maybe not a GM job, but as an Assistant and get another GM job within 2 years. Well respected in the industry. If all this is true, he's an assistant GM now. I don't think all of it is true. Maybe some of it is. But he knew what he was getting into. The other thing to keep in mind, if there is something to this, it shows JR has no trust in RH. What evidence is there to show RH does have all the answers?

QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) Yeah that's stupid too. He sounds completely oblivious if this was the case. And on top of it, it isn't like he came from somewhere else and didn't really know what he was getting into. I also remember him taking all the blame for the Keppinger deal.

I'll believe it when I see it. If RH has been JR and KW's pool boy since he got the job, I think you can blame him for sticking around this long. There is no way you can single one of the 3 out and say none of the problems are any of his fault. People were praising Hahn just a year and a half ago. When those moves went south, they had to be KW's idea.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) Thanks to revenue sharing, Sox would never leave Chicago unless the league could make more money. Most places getting tossed around won't make more money than being the second team in Chicago. Maybe an initial burst, but after that, you are right. Look at the expansion teams since the Sox were going to move. The ALL have less revenue than the Sox. Tampa, Miami, Phoenix, and Denver.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) I 100% believe that MLB ownership would select an ownership group with Chicago ties versus one wanting to leave Chicago. I think big picture, the league as a whole makes more money with a second team in Chicago, and the OAK/TB moves to one of those markets versus the Sox front running one of those truly struggling franchises and potentially leaving it to stay where it currently is. That is why they wouldn't approve an ownership group who wanted to move the team. It's actually one reason JR got the Sox in the first place. Veeck initially wanted to sell to Marvin Davis who wanted to move the team to Denver. Then went with DeBartolo who said the team would stay although many did not believe it. The league wanted local ownership, and still do.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 12:30 PM) I believe so, I think that the TV money they can get in those markets that have zero summer live sports inventory is going to dwarf what they would get as the second team in Chicago, especially if CSN goes in all 162 Cubs games and relegates the SOX to CSN+ or local TV. Why would the White Sox be the team that moves and not one of the 15 or so teams that don't have as much revenue or perceived value? Besides, one thing in all those articles the Tribune had about White Sox ownership a few years ago mentioned, was if the team was sold, JR wanted it be sold to locals. I would put odds that there is a 99% chance the White Sox are not sold before JR dies, a 75% chance his heirs keep the team, and a 0% chance they move in the next 25 years.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Easy to say if you haven't lived through it, which I know you have. I don't take anything for granted. North Carolina has a ton of money and people. If they could figure out a way to be both a Charlotte AND Raleigh team.... At worst, the White Sox are a middle of the pack team in value and revenue, even with their dry spell on the field. That isn't a team that gets moved. They will not be moved. It's ridiculous to even think there's a chance. Charlotte and Raliegh combined have less than half the population of Chicago proper. 2 teams there would be a joke.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 16, 2016 -> 11:58 AM) The Rays are locked in to their stadium lease. The A's aren't. The White Sox also have a lease. Why would the league let the White Sox move and take away a landing spot for one of the other teams that has less revenue and worth significantly less as a franchise?