Dick Allen

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 07:40 PM) He has an .800 OPS over his last 30 games, has shown signs of being really good, and is a better defender than Avi. Didn't say he wasn't better than Avi, but his numbers have declined every season, has a bad reputation in the clubhouse and off the field, and is owed a nice chunk of change. I think the Dodgers would take nothing but eating the contract. BTW, Avi has had 30 game stretches of .800+ OPS as well.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 05:58 PM) I thought the same thing. It's because you never see him without his make up.

Puig's OPS is about .030 better than Avi's. The Dodgers are going to have to eat some cash or take on some unwanted contract to move him.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) Let's not forget that's he's never played CF in comerica before and it's not a normal CF anyways. That doesn't matter, he was chasing the ball. He pulled up on the first one and he wasn't at the warning track yet. It's pretty obvious if you are still on grass you have some room to run. And he needs to check that all out before the game. I bet he would be the first to tell you he screwed up the first one.

4th White Sox rookie injured the day of their debut or in Smith's case, scheduled debut, this season.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) I saw him get two opportunities - one really bad read on his first attempt and then the injury attempt. Hard to say much. Yes. The first one was pretty weak. The second one, he hit the ground when his hammy gave so it looked like an ill advised dive, but it wasn't. So hard to tell. He may have made a nice play if he didn't get hurt.

QUOTE (ronkark @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) It's not Charlie Tilson's fault we traded for him. For a team mired in mediocrity, the definition of a trade to keep them there is trade a lefty reliever when we have no one to replace him in exchange for a guy whose ceiling is 4th outfielder according to scouts. And then we're left still needing a lefty reliever next year too. He makes us worse this year and potentially next. That said, he was all I had to be excited about the rest of the season. And yes I feel bad he's hurt and hope it's not bad. BUT when they say the question for him is his hit tool, and then he takes a joke of a read on a fly ball igniting a SIX run inning. Then follows it up with again taking an awkward closure on a ball and jumping awkwardly, well let's just say a smooth fielder he is not. Yes it's one half of one game but a pretty awful fielding debut. And where does that leave us? Having to watch Avi Garcia continue to play. UN-WATCHABLE. Why do you watch a team you deem is u nwatchable?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 07:47 PM) Really a shame they didn't move Shields and take advantage of his run of fluky starts Who wanted him?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 07:36 PM) Tilson thought he was at the wall and he had plenty of room That confuses me.There is a reason they call it a warning track. How could he not know he had a ton of room?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) Honestly, it feels like they didn't do anything at the trade deadline because neither Williams nor Hahn will man up and take responsibility for the failure of the last two offseasons. Probably both were scrambling around to stake out the opposite position of the other, and neither wanted to go to JR, so pretty much nothing got done. Surprise!!! It doesn't make any sense not to have gotten together a MONTH AGO and started trading assets like Robertson, Cabrera and Frazier. If this front office could only for ONCE get on the same freaking page and go to JR collectively and tell him they screwed up and the only way out of it is to do XYZ, then there would at least be a glimmer of hope. Then JR can decide whether to keep both of them or fire both of them. Instead, it's like Ozzie vs. KW where it feels like they're positioning for one to survive the other and have total control. In the offseason, we can get Betts or Bradley, Jr., or Bogaerts for Sale. Great. The team is in exactly the same position it was...unless Rodon or Fulmer decide to impersonate Cy Young contenders. We needed to make the kind of move that would bring in 2-3 potential starters offensively...or 2-3 future starting pitchers, like the proposed trade with the Dodgers. This was the PERFECT time to strike like the Yankees did and load up on prospects who will be coming up in 2017-18 and no later than 2019. Even the Pirates sold off, because they know they have the core in place (other than McCutcheon) for the next 3-4 years and won't gamble it all for another wild card game. Brewers, Padres, everyone ended up looking better than us. But excellent, we have another outfield version of Carlos Sanchez or Micah Johnson to entertain us for the next couple of months in Tilson. And we get to see how Dan Jennings does in high leverage situations. Oh, boy. What did the Royals do? Why didn't the Angels trade Trout?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) The last time I was this disengaged I honestly can't remember. I was thinking maybe like when I was in college in the early aughts but that's about it. Hahn is either a moron for taking a GM job without full control or he's just a bad GM. Either way there's not much hope. I had hope when Hahn took over that things would be different but nothing has changed. IMO the org is still run almost exactly like how I'd expect KW to run it. Whether that's on Hahn or not remains to be seen but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter from our perspective as fans -- the club stinks, it doesn't really matter who is at fault. Says the guy who could not get enough of Avi Garcia and Carlos Sanchez.

QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) So the alternative is to play it safe, continue with the plan, and continue to be stuck in mediocrity, like Rick Hahn admitted they were? They talked to every team about their players. The only deal they thought would make them better in the future was the Duke trade. Are they supposed to just trade guys because message board posters say so? 2015 was a disaster. They changed the roster significantly, which was changed significantly from the 2014 roster. Avi Garcia is the longest tenured postion player. The only others with a longer tenure are Sale and Quintana. Whichever direction they ultimately choose, and I think it is totally dependent on someone meeting their price on Q and Sale, the 2017 White Sox will have a significantly different looking roster from what it is now.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Since 2006, there's literally 5 teams including the Sox who don't have at least 2 playoff appearances. Two of those are the Blue Jays and Astros who can get out of that category this season. But yes, we're just entitled morons who can't see this awesome product that the organization has given us for the last decade! So if the Sox would have made it to a play in game as the 5th playoff team last year and lost 12-0, not making a trade yesterday for whatever they could get would not have been the blunder it now is.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) But the problem with the Pirates wasn't that they tried to rebuild, it's that they had poor management. Our management is not trying to rebuild and fielding a mediocre team for years because of poor management. You are identifying the strategy of trying to acquire a bunch of young talent as the cause of the problem, but really it's the poor management. The correct move right now would be to rebuild. We aren't rebuilding not because it is the right decision because Pirates, but because we have a front office that is scared of their own shadows. They'd rather fail when aesthetically it looks like they tried vs failing when they "gave up". So to your inevitable retort that "why would you want to rebuild with bad management", had we started to rebuild it would be a sign that they were starting to do things correctly. But because they are not, we can continue to assume that they are not the team that can find the playoffs. It's a great situation to be in. No, it's that prospects bust. Very rarely does it work out trading a star for a bunch of prospects. It does occasionally, and these 2 are different. They have years of control. It's not like they are going to be a free agent in a couple of months or another year. People were excited about Avi when he was acquired. Many were excited about Davidson. A lot of people thought Hawkins would be a stud. People are already down on Fulmer. It's not just the White Sox who have prospects that bust. Every team does. Look at the top 10s from 5 or 6 years ago and they don't look as good now for the most part. That's why they cannot settle. You miss on the prospect package for Sale and Q, you just set your team back a lot more years. Being very careful with this should be applauded not ripped apart. Maybe they are going to rebuild. Is there really a big difference if they waited until the offseason as opposed to now? You make it seem like it's now past the point of no return, if they were going to rebuild, these guys had to be gone. Besides, how can the Sox have so many players that have value of top prospects, yet be a team that is destined to be awful? And if trading away all your pieces is a sign of good management, how is it, if you don't think these guys know talent, you want them trading all of your worthwhile pieces? You want to talk setting a franchise back a decade or so, it would be getting what turns out to crap back for these guys.

QUOTE (Tony @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) And the last 10 years of White Sox baseball has gotten fans....what exactly? The same as most teams. I know White Sox fans are owed more than any other fanbase, but what you are arguing is 'why would they try to win?" You haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. Quit trying to win" Lose, lose, lose. Get a bunch of prospects. It's fool proof, and don't hold out for the best price. Just take what you can get.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) The Sox are a sub-.500 team, have been for 6 out of the last 9 years and have zero seasons at or above 90 wins in that period. On average, they're a 78 win team since 2007. When the Pirates rebuilt, they went 20 consecutive seasons without winning 80 games. Sure, the Sox can trade all of their good players for prospects, but how does that guarantee the team is better, let alone "fixed" ready to be in the playoffs 4 or 5 years in a row? Until we know what exactly was offered for White Sox players, I am a guy who can't say they made a mistake not trading them. There was a poster yesterday who said the return on any of these players had nothing to do with it. I think it has everything to do with it. They can still be traded, or maybe they won't. Until then, we have to watch Q and Sale pitch instead of a guy like Volstad. We have to watch Melky hit instead of a guy like Coats. We have to watch Robertson and less of lesser pitchers. I really don't have a problem with it. I will judge the team next year next year, not now. If they half ass it again, I'm with you, but I think they have learned their lesson. They are either going big or dealing guys away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a player or 2 is dealt this month. Maybe that will ease some pain. The Sox could get another Leury Garcia or 2 and the rebuild will be well underway.

QUOTE (shakes @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) While you are busy telling fans how wrong they are, you can sit here with a straight face and tell me you believe the last sentence you wrote? Yes I do. Besides, the White Sox aren't as bad as most want to make them. They are right around .500. You would think reading most posts, they are a 120 loss team. And everyone they could have traded yesterday to make people happy, they can trade after the season. I was disappointed they didn't make any moves, but I want them to get better and win. The amount of fans pissed off they think the Sox will try to win next year is crazy. These same people, if the Sox traded everyone away and had guys like Shuck and Coats playing everyday, would still be complaining. It's what they love to do. Just look at their posts. Even when the Sox win they aren't happy.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) Just heard from a second source who was told the same thing, JR does not want a rebuild and unless that changes it simply won't happen. Mark So do you think there is any reason to watch/listen/care about the White Sox as long as JR is around?

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) The Sox aren't going to start the rebuild this winter. The lack of activity yesterday is proof of this. Next year is year 3 of the infamous 3 year plan. The Sox should be able to pull a Yankees and load up the farm next trade deadline. You are right. Proof positive. Could you imagine what Atlanta could have received for Shelby Miller if they would have just traded him last deadline as opposed to the winter? These guys are so stupid, they should listen to message boards. Who cares what the offers are, if they are going to give you pennies on the dollar, take the pennies because message board posters love prospects until they suck for a week, then they are despicable. Just remember listening to fans regarding personnel will lead you to bad things. Someone bumped a Bonafacio thread from last year a couple of months ago, and there was a post by someone that no one should complain about Hahn as he did what Soxtalk wanted him to do. Well, that didn't work out, and not only did it become not what Soxtalk. it wasn't even Hahn. It was all Kenny Williams. Basically, most of the people complaining wanted a trade just to make a trade. What good does it do to trade Melky or Robertson for another Avi Garcia (who many were extremely high on btw) . See what's out there this winter. I think either they trade a couple of these guys away, or JR is going to jack up the payroll. I think the half assed approach is over. At least I hope so.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:14 PM) Southside: I simply was curious how others felt. That's all pure and simple. As others have posted in the past there's no need to offer snarky reply's to honest questions. That's simply common courtesy. We're not in grade school anymore playing a game of who can cut somebody up better right? There was no ulterior motive on my part. Period. Is that so hard to understand? And if anyone assumes there was I'll get pissed off. I know what my intentions were... nobody else. Mark Considering you put down only 2 possible reasons to watch, you are obviously trying to backpedal. Frankly, I think you like to complain about the White Sox or any of their personnel rather than cheer them.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 07:19 PM) Thought this deserved its own thread for discussion purposes. Why watch / listen / care the final two months especially since an influx of young talent isn't coming in and these guys are out of the pennant race? I'm curious to read what others think. I can think of only two possible reasons: 1. Chris Sale - Can he win 20 games, can he win the Cy Young. A month ago I would have said both are slam dunk's...now? I don't know. 2. Can the Sox finish with a winning season for the first time since 2013? Three under right now and another tough stretch of games coming up. I don't think they can. In fact they may win fewer games then in 2015 when all is said and done. I think they'll finish six to eight under. Fourth straight losing year and seventh in the last 10. So...why watch / listen / care? Mark If you have to question it, then don't watch, don't listen and don't care. Do yourself a favor,

Dissappointed in the development, but all their pieces can be traded later. If Sale and Q are out there in the offseason, chances are the are the #1 and #2 guys available. I have no idea what they could have brought back for Robertson, Melky, Frazier, etc. but apparently those guys are as bad as gamethreads say they are, so you can't expect anything interesting.

In years past when they did nothing we heard they were going to do nothing a half hour before the deadline. I am sure they are still working right now.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) How many team have overturned their roster in 3 years and still got nothing to show for it? I can think of several.

How many teams in major league history turned over their roster at the trade deadline?