Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) I guess that means you wouldn't want Andrus, Aybar, Bogaerts, Escobar, Jordy Mercer, Asdrubal Cabrera, Gregorious, Brad Miller or Alexei to play SS for your team, either? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/po...true/order/true Eight MLB shortstops have more errors, out of 26 qualified. Bogaerts, Russell, Story, Cozart and Ahmed all have 9, along with Semien. So that puts him right around the average. First in total chances, over Lindor. First in range factor. But yeah, keep repeating the same mantra from last year that he's still terrible defensively when that case is no longer supportable by any credible evidence. Explain this I wouldn't trade Anderson, Rodon or Montas. On the fence with Hawkins (for the same reason they're holding out hope with Viciedo, POWER). I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish. And this As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins.

Caulfied is playing black jack. He has 16. The dealer has a face card showing. Caulfied is the last player, hits and its a queen. He busts. The dealer has 12 takes his hit and gets a 7. I'm guessing he says he only said to take a hit because "the book" says to take a hit. He didn't really want to and expects to be paid on his bet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:28 AM) But how can we honestly say Semien was traded "out of depth" when none of those players were clear/sure-fire/ready-to-go replacements at either 2B or 3B? They were possibilities. Actually, you'd have to believe the White Sox valued Conor Gillaspie and Gordon Beckham more at 3B based upon their actions (or lack thereof). Isn't that also part of the reason Emilio Bonifacio was acquired, to share time at 2B and give Micah Johnson some competition (PR/outfield, 3B, etc.) We said all along that if you merged Saladino/Micah/Carlos/Leury into ONE player, then you might have a major league regular. Saladino was also coming off an injury that was going to limit him heading into 2015 (at least there was the idea he wouldn't be ready to start the season or even maybe be ready to go in May). Trey wasn't even close to the majors (he still isn't 1 1/2 years later) and Davidson had a 644 OPS in AAA, so it would have been nearly impossible to project him as a starter coming into 2015. It's a trade that was made that you said you would make at the time. The posts are all there and there are even more. You are basically now arguing with yourself.

Also it appears Caulfield himself gave up on Marcus Semien: I remember five years ago we all considered Jhonny Peralta a statue at SS and definitely a 3B/DH and he's since had a career renaissance in more ways than one. Sometimes players can and do improve defensively. Still would be hesitant to throw Semien out there for 145+ games at SS and expect him to have less than 35-40 errors.

No mention of the Sox "giving up on Semien" here. And there even is a James Shields mention. Dec 2, 2014 -> 10:39 PM Post #902 Bench Coach ************** Group: Members Posts: 43,557 Joined: March 26, 2007 Member No.: 5,243 I'm not even sure giving up what could be an elite closer in Montas for Samardzija is a good move, because you tack on $10 million in spending and you're left with only $10-15 million more for LF and the bullpen. (Of course, we'd have to spend that money anyway on a FA pitcher if we're really serious about competing.) It definitely makes the White Sox competitive in 2015. The problem is that they would still be at least two players away and mortgaging the future for a player they might at best have a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 chance of re-signing. Seemingly, they have to target a pitcher they're going to control for a minimum of two and maximum of 4 years, as I don't think we'll see them go five years with a pitcher any time soon. (This is where a James Shields COULD make sense, but at $70-75 million for 3 years sense? Probably not.) The draft pick compensation isn't SO helpful either, because his impact might not even be felt until after that competitive window has already closed. I wouldn't trade Anderson, Rodon or Montas. On the fence with Hawkins (for the same reason they're holding out hope with Viciedo, POWER). I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Who were their future 2B and 3B at that time? As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins. Then the White Sox would be left scrambling at 2B and/or the RH complement to Gillaspie. Would they sign another player for one year or do they gamble that Micah Johnson's ready? Do they truly believe Sanchez can be close to league average at 2B if they deem Johnson not ready until at least mid-season? This post has been edited by caulfield12: Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:57 PM

Smolts has to stop the "our game" lime.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) When have you gone out and staked a position on a player? It's easy to question others when you so rarely do that. Ubaldo Jimenez? Gordon Beckham? John Danks? Do I really need to write that "everyone knows how the White Sox operate when it comes to young players, that it's clear they have given up on Marcus Semien as an everyday player and might as well get something of value back for him?" Once again, should every thread be bifurcated into 1) our own personal thoughts about a player or trade, 2) our anticipation of what the White Sox will actually do, 3) our own idea if we were running the White Sox, what they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T DO? Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. In the end, I'll leave it up to "SoxTalk" land to make their own appraisals. None of us are being paid by the White Sox to make these decisions, anyway, so it doesn't really matter, does it? It's just for fun and entertainment. If you think about ALL the time you've wasted trying to convince everyone that I'm this or that...wouldn't your energies have better been applied to "growing the White Sox fanbase" in Chicago by sponsoring an RBI or Jackie Robinson League team so that all those kids ended up cheering for the Sox in the future? Are you really going to change the minds of Balta, Greg775, Flash Tizzle, Thad Bosley, GreenSox or ANYONE else? For the record, thanks in advance for your time and consideration in spending an inordinate amount of time delving into every single post someone has made!!! Flattering, in a way. Impressive diligence in your quest for righteousness. I'll leave it like this. The current and prevailing message board defense of almost any move made by the Sox was "that it made sense or was logical enough at the time." If JR wants to support that type of thinking and ignore the team's record or lack of playoff appearances, that's really great. LOYAL. If he wants to end up with 18-21,000 fans per game despite never doing a total rebuild, and STILL having the worst TV ratings in all of MLB despite starting the season 23-10, he's more than welcome to enjoy that, since his team will still be worth $1 billion or more anyway, no matter how badly they mess things up. Just quit contradicting yourself. if you thought a move was good without hindsight, there is no need to hammer it endlessly if it doesn't work out. If a trade had to be made, your words, then if it doesn't work out accept you were wrong as well. If signings like Paulino are what business the Sox should be in don't work out, don't blast Hahn 2 years later and act like you never stated that. If you really think Jake Peavy is a bum, when he re-signs, don't call it good news and write it frees up guys like Quintana to be traded for a 3B. Just like with Desmond who you said sign in June and then tried to hide behind the Hahn would never give up the draft pick so you are just trying to be realistic, just be honest and admit it. Besides you put it in with give Latos $10 million and Parra $8 million. 2 things Hahn would do either.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) You just had a couple of mods in this very same sequence of posts say the organization had clearly given up on him. It's not just me. It's what the White Sox ALWAYS do. The same thing happened with Daniel Hudson after 3 starts. Micah Johnson got about 3 weeks. Carlos Sanchez got about half a season as well, despite being only 22 or 23. They give up on players too quickly or they play them 1-2 seasons too long when they can't believe they were so wrong in their talent evaluation (Beckham, Viciedo, Flowers, Avi Garcia). Somewhere in there is a middle ground that they can't seem to find, a sweet spot, where patience has to be met with results. Marcus Semien had 300 career at-bats with the White Sox. That's essentially half a season. And then they decided he wasn't going to make it. So what's the point of not trading him at that point? They weren't willing to play him everyday, even though that's exactly what rebuilding teams do. That's exactly what Billy Beane did (see below). http://m.mlb.com/news/article/188565220/as...lays-every-day/ But thanks for playing, Dick "Stalker" Allen Show me a post in the Shark trade thread where you said they have clearly given up on him? A year and a half later you are using it . I copy and pasted your no hindsight post . You are lying. You have to give up something to get something. The White Sox had not given up on Semien. For you to use a line that was written today for what you where really thinking in December of 2014 is preposterous. Not a stalker, just going to call you out for all of your lies. There are a lot more. We have Peavy, Semeienand you would have included any minor leaguer not named Momtas, Anderson or Hawkins. Ther was the blasting of The Paulino signing, where you said the move made too much sense. The White Sox should be in the business of more signings of the like You are a total BSer. Just admit once in a while you also had it wrong. It seemed to make sense to you at the time but for some reason it didn't work out instead of what kind of idiot makes a trade like this? Apparently someone like you. You don't want to read the Shark trade thread. Your new lie would be totally exposed, plus your lack of hindsight determined Hahn and KW would be kings of Chicago if they could acquire Matt Kemp. Don't complain about Avi getting time then Caulfraud.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 06:31 PM) It's more the fact that we were rebuilding and everything was going along fine until the 2014-15 offseason approached. Then they got impatient and tried to rush forward, in the back of their minds certainly being aware they wouldn't have the financial resources to sustain an "all in" year unless EVERY MOVE THEY MADE TURNED OUT PERFECTLY. While we might not be much better off record-wise, an infield of Semien at 3B/2B, Anderson at SS, Thompson in CF, Montas still in the system (and Saladino as super-sub/Zobrist lite rotating around at different positions)...that would be a lot more exciting to watch and have potential for future improvement. Also, a lot more athleticism. Between Montas, Hansen, Fulmer, Adams and Jordan Stephens, we'd have enough pieces to fill the bullpen needs and back of the starting rotation. That team would also be much more affordable/cost-effective, providing payroll space for other fixes like the DH issue with Avi Garcia. And yeah, I did say they pretty much needed to trade Semien because it was clear the organization had already given up on him and he wasn't likely to get another shot...so why not try to turn him into an asset to fill another need? It's not like any of us here can go out and hire individual coaches and bring them to USCF and force them on the White Sox front office to fix their own development and lack of patience with young player issues...(of course, for some reason, they fixate on other guys like Beckham, Flowers and Viciedo and give them way too much time, with Avi Garcia being the most currently example of that phenomenon.) No. You said it was a trade that had to be made, and it wasn't clear the organization had given up on him. Nice spin. But a total lie. If trading good players for prospects requires said prospects to be guys their organization has given up on, it would be another reason a total rebuild makes no sense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) I still stand by the record I posted. You'll see. As far as betting, it may not be a smart move because of the "meaningless game factor." That's another Sox thing. Depending on how soon they fall out of the race, they actually then could beat those 3 Central teams as they did last year. They dominated the final 2 series versus KC when it mattered not. So they won't beat them, but you won't bet because they might beat them? The fact is if they lose the 8 out of 10 to all 3 like you claimed, meaningless game factor does enter. So your entire claim makes no sense. It isn't the first time a doom and gloomer refused to bet what he claimed would happen.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 08:56 AM) Every few months, my debit card information gets compromised and a bunch of purchases get made in Georgia or Texas somewhere and I have to get a new debit card. I'm never responsible for the charges thankfully, but god damn is this annoying. Every major retail data breach (Target, Home Depot, etc.) I've had my cards compromised and had to get new ones. It's probably about the 10th call I've had to make. Had the same problem and I wasn't using my debit card for anything but taking out cash at ATMs. I got one with a chip and it has been good now for a year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250 Going by WAR, Thompson is 41st out of the 66 MLB outfielders with over 250 PA's at 0.8. Over a full season, roughly 1.5. By OPS, 47th. That still has a lot of value, for a first/second year player with a dirt cheap contract. It means he would be right around the middle of statistical comparison with "second outfielders" on most MLB teams...with many non-qualified players putting up lower numbers, the same as we talk about with pitchers all the time and how many with terrible stats don't show up because they don't record enough innings to qualify. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...false/minpa/250 There are a ton of "big names" with large contracts on this list behind Thompson. And a lot of them play in better parks for offense than Dodgers' stadium, especially night games when the marine layer comes in (more impact in SD, but still affects LA, SF and Safeco). Marcus Semien has been around the 13th or 14th SS going by WAR/OPS on a consistent basis, nearly all season long...and those numbers would be even better playing 81 home games at USCF vs. O.Co. That also has a LOT of value. You would have traded both for Shark As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins. Then the White Sox would be left scrambling at 2B and/or the RH complement to Gillaspie. Would they sign another player for one year or do they gamble that Micah Johnson's ready? Do they truly believe Sanchez can be close to league average at 2B if they deem Johnson not ready until at least mid-season? This post has been edited by caulfield12: Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:57 PM Probably by they have to do it, you meant you were against it, but quit crying about Semien.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 10:50 PM) The problem is the record could be skewed as far as how the Sox fare against those teams once the Sox are eliminated. Last year they kicked butt once the games didn't matter. Then don't say they will lose 8 out of 10 if you won't back it up.

They use super juiced balls for this.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 07:00 PM) New White Sox motto: Hey, At Least We Avoiding Paying Penalties for Bringing in Premium Talent Like The Cubs Kind of goes against the argument that they don't care about winning, and/or they still believe paying the penalties to be worth it compared to having to overpay for players like Lester or Heyward. And that's probably right, all things considered. Same with the way the Red Sox have been doing things ever since Epstein arrived. Exploit market inefficiencies...in this case, the fact that only about 8-10 teams in the major leagues can afford to employ this strategy and absorb the losses that it entails for the diamonds that are unearthed. If the Sox were drawing 35k a night being terrible they would sign these guys and pay penalties. Last I checked, though the futures game performance doesn't get you into the hall of fame. But I am sure they are can't miss. How much did the Sox spend on Abreu? You really have no clue. It is so comical how ridiculous you have become.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) Torres - $2.8 million signing bonus Jiminez - $2.8 million dollar bonus Bonifacio - $3 million salary. Beckham - $2 million salary And we wonder why?....... You aren't accounting for penalties.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) That was part of it. He was pissed off that Larry wouldn't trade any kids for players like Mike Scott who was mentioned as potentially going to the Sox and after the A's claimed both Baines and McGee at the waiver deadline when the Sox could have blocked the move by claiming them, he called jeff Torborg in his hotel room and asked "what's going on?" (Jeff told me that himself. Add in the trade that Himes nixed before the 1990 season opened (Yankess wanted to send Hal Morris and Bernie Williams to the Sox for Steve Lyons and Eric King) and his refusal to let Frank Thomas open the season with the big club plus the personality differences between the two men and a breakup was bound to happen, which it did in mid September. Mark The Sox added Minnie Minoso that year, which the commissioner blocked, and Jerry Hairston for his pension.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 06:21 PM) The Sox will go 10-23 vs those teams the rest of the season. Maybe 9-24 but I'd say 10-23. That means "sell" in my book. It's tough to say because of "meaningless" games late. Like I don't know who we play the final two weeks and if they are eliminated and we are eliminated yet, etc. Last year we rocked KC in some meaningless games late. I think the Sox won five of the last six vs. KC last year but when anything was on the line ... L after L after L for Chicago. First it was,8 out of 10 now you moved the bar higher. I will bet you $100 they go at least 11-22 vs. those teams the rest of the season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 06:18 PM) Five years of being content with being "mediocre at best" is preferable? What is hilarious is that some are arguing that major reason to NOT rebuild correctly is because the current front office in charge of "competing on the fly" isn't doing a very good job of that, so how could they possibly pull off a rebuild and NOT actually make things worse? Tons of logic there. Fear that things could get worse? Worse HOW? The fact of the matter is that many White Sox fans have given up complaining and have simply turned to other interests that provide them and their families a higher return on investment for their time and money. Because they know complaining is pointless and won't change anything. But they also don't expect things to turn around any time soon for this particular franchise, its owner, its admin/front office and coaching staff. They're just going to wait patiently in the weeds for a playoff team to come around, and then jump back on the bandwagon like happened in 2005 and 2006. You tell us twice you aren't posting anymore until,KW gets fired. Then for some reason, you come back, and now your target is Hahn. So you spend thousands of posts telling us how little they know about judging talent, but want them to trade away all the Sox good players for minor leaguers, No surprise, there, for a White a Sox fan, is no logic in this kind of thinking. But then again, for a Royals/Imdians/ whoever is leading the ALCentral as long as it isn't the White Sox fan, it does makes perfect sense.

When considering a rebuild, one factor is the competition. Right now Cleveland looks good, but not exactly a juggernaut. The Sox are right with KC and Detroit with Minnesota taking up the rear. There is no team that you would say is anywhere near unbeatable. That is I'm reason why I wouldn't trade Chris Sale for a package of guys I hope is,as,good as Chris Sale some day. I really think so,e want the Sox to rebuild for the built in minimum 3 years of constant complaining.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Jake: Just my opinion but 2005 was a fluke. Also just my opinion, if the Sox went into a full rebuild mode and lost revenue I don't honestly think that would make much of an impact. I assume you are talking about attendance. With the revenue streams MLB now has, paid attendance isn't that big of a deal. It certainly has a place and it's very nice to have but I don't think it's 'make or break' anymore...not like back say in the 1940's before TV hit it big. Mark Serious question. Say the Sox went into full rebuild and traded everyone away. How many years of losing until you started moaning about years not in the playoffs and the rest? Could you go 3 years and not say a peep about the team on the field being awful? I doubt most can. The second half of 2013 and 2014 the Sox were clearly rebuilding, yet they hold the w-l record against the manager. There was tons of complaining about roster construction in 2014 with Konerko being brought back to be the 25th guy.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) Just think if we had Anderson, Semien and Trayce! Wow we'd be excited and praising our system. Instead, two horrific trades letting Trayce and Semien go. As much as we rail on our system, we had 3 studs right there home grown and let two go. Frazier sucks, correct? Want to know something funny? Frazier has a higher OBP than Trayce.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 11, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) And that's why I say "sell." The problems they have in the division won't be fixed this year. It's a scouting problem and Cleveland, Detroit and KC will win eight of every 10 vs the Sox the second half. Sell. 7-26 is actually slightly better than winning 2 out of 10. I will make you a wager the Sox go better than 7-26 vs. Cleveland, KC and Detroit the rest of the season.

I saw Peter Gabriel/Sting at the UC Saturday night. I never have been a big fan of Sting's solo career. I did like the Police, but he was fantastic, as was Peter Gabriel. My wife is a huge Sting fan, that's the only reason I went, but I'm glad I did. They had both of their bands set up on stage and they would alternate tunes, and occasionally collaborate. They played for almost 3 hours. Outstanding show.