Dick Allen

This is starting to remind of 1982. In September the Sox kept bringing in former big names, guys like Jim Kern and Sparky Lyle. It didn't work, but it was kind of fun.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) Except that whole "best player" thing. And back on topic, I would be completely satisfied with a Houston Astros type rebuild. Yeah, it would suck, but unlike this garbage team, we would know the direction we're trying to go. He was the #2 pick in the country hit 31 homers in 62 games. I could have made that pick. That's like putting whoever drafted LeBron James in the HOF because they drafted him. Sometimes things are no brainers.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) So my point stands. Dick Allen being Dick Allen. Soler free agent Fowler trade free agent Heyward free agent Bryant draft Russell trade Zobrist trade Rizzo trade Montero trade Lester free agent Lackey free agent Hendricks trade Arrieta trade Hammel free agent Rondon trade Truth hurts. Not much imput from the developmental staff.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) "The Cubs have done a pretty poor job developing their players over the last three to four years except their best player and the guy that carried their team for much of last season. And Javier Baez." Come on guys. You're smarter than this. How many more Cubs draft picks have to be good before you give them credit for actual drafting and developing players? Bryant was the only guy on the Cubs roster 2 days ago the amazing Theo drafted. Schwarber looks like a good pick, but he didn't rebuild the team through the draft. He signed a bunch of free agents and made some great trades.

Amazing how much money Mat Latos has lost the last 12 months.

He's been better than Shields.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) I don't think many people hold 2013-2014 against Ventura.... 2012, 2015, 2016 are a different story. 2011 the team wasn't even .500, they lost Buehrle for nothing. Many experts predicted they would finish in the basement. They set a major league record for rookie pitchers used, and won 85 games, yet Ventura sucked. Only White Sox fans.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) John McDonough did it for the Blackhawks. I just don't see that kind of move on the south side until a change at the very top happens, though. McDonough is a marketing guy. There is no marketing guy in the world right now that will make USCF a destination. And if the Hawks played like the Maple Leafs, McCub would have wished he never left Clark and Addison. Brooks get slammed all the time, but I don't think a team's marketing department tries harder to get people to games. They have tried just about everything they can do to no avail.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) A lot of us are aware of what it is. The problem is, the Cubs are a best case scenario when it comes to rebuilding. They drafted well and were smart with international players. The White Sox have shown consistently that they are completely incapable of drafting positional talent and I would guess their rebuild process would be closer to the Astros' rebuild than to the Cubs' rebuild. Until yesterday, Theo had exactly 1 of his Cubs draft picks on the major league active roster. He spent a lot of money and made some great trades. People are calling for Hahn's head after for spending $27 million on Shields and his one awful start. Theo spend twice as much on Edwin Jackson. The Sox can't have a rebuild where they can throw money around like the Cubs.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) My biggest dislike for Lamont at that time is when they faced the Indians one of the starters was a call up from the farm. You put a minor league player is a decent chance to fail and not having your best chance at winning. It was Ruffcorn and he was valued by every organization and the guy never really made it. I don't think Scott Ruffcorn ever had even a good inning as a White Sox.

the last half of 2013 and all of 2014, the Sox were rebuilding and there was a ton of complaining around here. Everyone still holds the record during that time against the manager. I don't think many who are calling for a rebuild truly understand what a rebuild entails.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) thought this was funny The White Sox and CSN really built up his debut, only to be totally deflated a couple outs into his White Sox career. That was about as big of a dud debut ever. Other guys have sucked probably just as much but with zero expectation. His first hitter he looked pretty awesome. The pitch for the strikeout was pretty much unhittable.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) Then why not fire him? Obviously, he has no point to being here. It's clearly just a players game. Players get up, go out, and come back. The manager has no interaction and no influence on anything related to the team. It's so obvious! Why pay players millions? Just get the best manager and a bunch of released guys you can pay minimum. A good manager makes them all stars.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) I dunno--I like the Cell and the upper deck. Either way, the Stadium is the least of our problems. I'd support a new one if they put it on the lakefront, say, where the George Lucas museum is now not going to go, where it should have gone in the first place. While it might be a pretty place, it would be an awful place for a ballpark. No public transportation. LSD would be a headache. It's fine for the Bears 8 days a year, but 81? People aren't going to want much of it. I always though the park should have been around Roosevelt and the River. You have Red line, Green line and Orange line stops a couple of blocks away. You have the downtown work people extremely close. Could have built a riverwalk type thing, and opened it up to the skyline a bit. But the park now is fine.

I don't think the plan was/is to sell. I think it was to win and build off of that. If things keep going south, that might change. You don't trade for Shields if the thought is to sell after this year or next.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) Not many employers keep you around after failing miserably for years and years non stop. And the reason for the failure is the lack of public humiliation. Why Robin doesn't scream at players for everyone to see when they screw up is the biggest reason they fail. Why he doesn't throw them under a bus during his press conferences is managerial failure. JR not publicly calling out Hahn after Shields' start last night...mindboggling. Meathead fans are correct, trying to make fools out of people works.

Everyone has screwed up at their job from time to time. I know for me, and probably for everyone else, the best thing that ever happens and makes me better, is if my boss chews me out and humiliates me if front of everyone else. Makes for a better work environment and a better performing employee.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 09:06 AM) Last evening Navarro was a better option because of familiarity there is no question about it, it is not a debate. Maybe James Shields said he does not like to throw to Navarro in which case we are all wrong. He hasn't caught him for 6 years. Shields isn't the same pitcher he was 6 years ago, or if he is and all that is needed is Dioner Navarro behind the plate, Rick Hahn and KW need some extensions as they just robbed SD blind.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) Even WITH the s*** years we've had for, oh, the last decade--does anybody remember a streak this brutal? Because I don't. Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that they jumped to such an amazing start but OMG I can't remember a time where they lost this many games just one after another, for such an extended period of time. I mean, losing 20 out of the last 26? Good God. It's just sad to me. For a hot minute there in April I thought wow, this is going to be a fun season. Serves me right for thinking we'd actually do something in the KW era. They actually have done something in the KW era. I don't remember anything this bad. Shields looked about as bad as someone could look last night. He won't be that bad. If he is, someone has to go, whether it is KW, RH or a scout who recommended it be done. I just think it is right now a when it rains it pours situation. They will turn it around eventually, hopefully before it's too late. It's been a dramatic fall. But even the 2005 White Sox lost 13 or 14 games in the standing at one point, then got on a roll and were just about unbeatable. The 2014 Giants had a 6-18 streak. It does seem like this will never end, but it will, and if Hahn does what he has been telling people he will do, the team should be pretty good.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:33 AM) I miss the shakes head emoji. Keep fighting the good fight there DA. Whatever. Dioner Navarro isn't in the line up. Robin is a moron. Maybe the biggest stretch so far. It is good to know that since Navarro catches Latos, this stretch he has had is just a mirage.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) Navarro caught 331 innings and put up a 2.91 CERA that year with TB. (Team ERA that year was 3.78) Should I bring up his CERA in years after that or Shields FIP/BABIP/SIERA that year? And Shields was horrible that year. And that year was 2010. Shields isn't the same pitcher. It didn't matter who caught him, he was horrible last night. There are things that can be taken as legit arguments against Robin, this isn't one of them. 2010 was a long time ago baseball-wise. No one on the 2010 White Sox is even on the team anymore. Somehow since 2010 Shields was able to survive with others catching him, and has made a lot of money.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) Typical DA reading what he wants to read. I already said he might of still got rocked, or he might of pitched a quality start. We'll never know. But I'd still rather see him live or die with a guy he's had success with in the past. By your logic, maybe the Cubs front office should tell Jon Lester to stop pitching since it seems he only pitches well when Ross is catching him. Again they were last teammates 6 years ago. That season Shields put up a 5.18 ERA. Your argument is ridiculously laughable.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 07:56 AM) A guy who just got traded, pitching in a new environment with a catcher he's had success with in his career (who also hapoens to know his tendencies) would be a pretty smart move for the most part. But trying to explain anything coaching related to you is pointless. If you were running the Sox office, Greg Walker would still be the hitting coach. So James Shields would have been much better if Navarro was catching last night. The last time they were teammates was in 2010 when Shields was 13-15 5.18 ERA. Somehow the next year he went 16-12 with a 2.82 throwing to someone else and had been pretty good since. That's all I need to know to realize how little you know. James Shields has thrown to I don't know how many catchers in his day. But a lot more than Dioner Navarro. If he can't throw to Alex Avila, having him on the team is beyond stupid. He's also been in Chicago and on the mound at USCF plenty in his career. If he is that big of a baby, maybe Cooper should have held his hand and walked him to the mound last night.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 07:29 AM) https://mobile.twitter.com/ckamka/status/740690814934847489 I didn't watch the game yesterday, but when I saw the lineup card and this tweet from Kamka, I was like "Oh Robin".. So maybe the Sox should bring back Tyler Flowers. This Robin bashing is getting hysterically stupid. Now he's an idiot for not having Navarro catch Shields like if he did, Shields would be a Cy Young guy. Navarro has been catching Latos. In fact after his first few starts, including some time in Cincinatti, it was something like 10 or 12 starts with an ERA below 2.00? How did that hold up once Latos started throwing meatballs?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 11:53 PM) Don't know if anybody saw the "official" verified San Diego Padres twitter account tonight. The post may already be deleted but at 7:11 someone wrote out "No Tradebacks" on it. Another web site had the screen shot of it. Royals last week and now the Padres dishing it to the Sox. Just a shame. Mark It is funny. Totally classless if the Padres had anything to do with it, but funny.