Dick Allen

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) I'd say so, that's a pretty good core to start with. Add in a couple free agents and that's a WS contender. 1. Bumgarner 2. Strasburg 3. Martin perez 4. Hellickson C Posey 1B Smoak OF Stanton OF Heyward OF D. Jennings DH C. Santana Not really and since it was 6 years ago, you probably would have had to trade a few of these guys away for prospects.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) The other problem is you have to be able to provide at least replacement level or "somewhat" capable minor leaguers in case of injuries or non-performance. Let's forget the Andersons, Rodons and Fulmers for a moment. One of the single biggest issues with this franchise is just having someone who can step in and not put up a 500ish OPS and a negative WAR. The Jason Coatses/Carlos Sanchezes/Saladinos/Shucks/Sands of the world. Due to our lack of these guys developing in the minors....we end up with Albers/Navarro/Avila/Latos/Rollins/Gonzalez instead. It's no wonder that teams like the Indians with smaller budgets are kicking our butts. They're just more efficient in their spending/scouting/talent evaluation. Same with KC. Says the guy who wanted the Sox to pay Latos and Parra a total of $18 million in 2016.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) Great, I can't wait for Dick Allen's own well thought out personal opinion on the future of the franchise. When that comes it will be a first. I don't even know who "They" is in your post, I"m not advocating KW/Hahn get a second crack at a rebuild they half-assed nad wasted 3 years on. You don't need to trade every good player, but there is no way in my eyes we are closer to the playoffs by keeping all of our players nad trying to "add-on" with zero budget and prospects, then unloading some value pieces to start to come up with Anderson and hopefully Collins, Burdi, Fulmer, Adams and whoever else we get. This team is razor thin, not that talented, and broke. Seems so much more promising than rebuilding. A first, LMAO. I just said draft and develop players better. Don't be scared to blow through the international spending, sign a free agent here and there. It's a lot better option than having someone you don't think understands the game and can't identify talent trading away any talent on the roster. But maybe you are part of the group of Sox fans that actually prefers losing. If they are broke, the rebuild will look more like the Royals and Pirates, that takes 20-30 years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) Except Davidson and Garcia were not "can't miss" guys. They were in the 70-100 range (I just looked up Davidson, he was #88 and peaked at #72)...but not Top 50 talents like Rodon/Anderson/Fulmer (borderline). Avi Garcia was #74. Jose Iglesias was the #9 prospect JUST for the Red Sox in 2013. Now who would you take out of all three of those players, AS OF TODAY? The White Sox occasionally have been right about prospects or guys with less than one year, like Quentin and Eaton. More often than not, they've missed by a country mile, whether it's Tyler Flowers, Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart, Avi or Matt Davidson. The Swisher trades, for example. Trading Gio Gonzalez twice. Mark Teahen. Jeff Keppinger. The list is too long to go through over and over again. A good GM, they say, is right about 60% of the time. Hahn has been right about 30-35% of the time. He's had some notable successes, but not nearly enough to counterbalance his biggest failures. I posted BPs top 20 prospects from 2010 on here yesterday. There are some good players on it, but at best a .500 team. Being ranked the best farm system and actually being the best farm system are 2 very different things. Top prospects fail all the time. Find the list. There are a couple of stars, and if you had BP's top 20 all at once you would easily be ranked the best farm system in baseball, maybe of all time.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Davidson was ranked the 80th best prospect in MLB in 2014. Nice, but no "can't miss" type. The Soxtalk scouts were very, very impressed. There was one poster, not Caulfield, who posts almost every gamethread how bad Hahn is at his job, and how bad everyone else is, who loved this trade. Davidson was the man.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Yeah, he was a good prospect, failed. That's the problem with trying to do a rebuild where you rely on every piece working out. Part of the trading away our talent that likely won't be good when we actually make the playoffs is to get a LOT of talent, so you can handle a davidson not working out. But that obviously doesn't fit your reflexive anti-strawman arguments. DA, you know this front office has failed. The people pointing it out aren't wrong. We have traded more major league talent than we've brought in and are basically the same team. There is no great cavalry coming up in the next two years to plug our gaps. At some point you have to weigh what is faster to get to the playoffs, acquiring a bunch of young pieces and let them develop 2 yeras before supplementing them with ML pieces, or dumpster diving for vets after you've alreayd maxed out your budget because your core is so good that it makes you look like your continued fourth and fifth place finishes are a fluke. But if they have failed, giving them a project where failure is quite likely MAKES NO SENSE. Rebuilds fail more than not. There have been exceptions, but not many, and if people really want the Sox to be like the Cubs, 35k people have to show up to games when they are losing 95 plus for 4 or 5 years in an row.

The Sox suck, they haven't made the playoffs in blah, blah, blah. Hahn and KW are horrible. They don't know what they are doing. Here's how you fix it. Have the guys you don't think you know what they are doing trade away all their good players for prospects. That will work out perfectly. Another 10-20 years of daily whining. All you need to know about prospects is to go back to the Matt Davidson thread. He was called the best available 3rd base prospect. A can't miss. Hahn was praised for his new core which included Davidson and Avi Garcia. A guy the main concern was to avoid the super 2. That cost Addison Reed. A loss, but not a Chris Sale, Q type loss. Keep the good players. Draft better. Sign foreign free agents. Develop better. Learn how to make decent trades. Blow it up is not wise.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:25 PM) The Red Sox have done some really smart things, besides throwing money around: Being patient with Jackie Bradley, Jr., for one. That has been rewarded. They easily could have taken the Sox route and cut bait early. They also have developed enough minor league talent (Moncada/Benitendi are two of the two 10-15 hitting prospects in the game at the moment) that they can trade for virtually anyone in the world, with the possible exception of Trout. Rangers have done the exact same thing, especially being successful in the Latin America. What top prospect comparable to Jackie Bradley Jr. Did the Sox cut bait early?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:39 PM) That certainly is a problem, but it's better than advertised. There was no reason to dumpster dive for Latos and certainly not Shields. Johnson was an okay 5 (anyone who thought Shields could be more than that should spend their time practicing alchemy) but the pitching coach didn't like him; nor did he like Junior Guerra. Poor roster decisions don't help. Nor does poor talent evaluation. It's near impossible to build a team with veterans when your young core stands at 4. Hahn has since made a number of terrible trades which have exacerbated the problem; but his plan had no chance of success anyway. Hahn may be okay, and he may have been able to build this operation with a sensible plan. But even then, he's got to maneuver through sacred cows like Kenny Williams and Don Cooper....not only does he have to win, he has to keep those 2 happy while doing it. I JOHNSON is horrible. ERA over 10 in SD. The Sox won 8 of Latos 11 starts.ok for 3 million. Juno is starting to show what he is. And he is older than all of the others.

The Saks are just taking him off the 40. If you want him you have to pay him a lot of money. .

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) Renteria taking over does nothing for me. Exactly. He has been here all season. The same dopes will be going up to hit. I guess they will be much better with Robin not sitting in the dugout.

This is probably it for Robin. Hopefully JR puts some others on notice.

Abreu needs to make that play. At least knock it down.

Even with a 98 mph fastball and a 91 mph slider, Nate is getting hit pretty hard. Anytime Coop wants to "fix" someone is OK by me.

Lawrie saved the game.

Martinez looks like he will hit a bloop that will fall in.

Gomes sucks,

Nate is trying to throw it 110.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Not firing Steverson after last season was inexcusable. I,doubt that would have changed anything. They need a better line up. If they are serious about winning, they need to get more aSap.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) 100% been an issue for a long time Yet the answers are JB Shuck or Jason Coats. The team never has more than a couple of guys going well at the same time. I just can't understand their all in mentality and not addressing the offense except for minor leaguers up until now.another hitter might have helped Friday and today,

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) Why does our bullpen walk SO MANY batters? It is the El Duque school of pitching. Get to ball 3 on everybody.

2 runs a game offense is on the front office.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) Maybe a coach should finally tell Melky that sliding into first base is stupid. If he didn't he could have collided and been hurt. Other than that I do agree.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) Doesn't matter if Reinsdorf won't commit the resources to build around those players. We 100% half-assed it this offseason. They had a ton of holes and they dumpster dived to fill them despite multiple impact players being available at positions of need and it being a buyers' market. I can't even blame Hahn for this f***-up, because it's clear that ownership told the front office to try and win and didn't give them a budget to pull it off. What I don't get is your need to defend all things ownership, front office, & coaching staff (except for Don Cooper). We are in the midst of a very long playoff drought despite "going for it" multiple times. Time and time again the team performs below expectations and yet you only want to hold the players accountable. It's incredibly frustrating that a poster as knowledgable as yourself refuses to see the truth. This organization completely sucks right now outside of a small core of players and the magic of Herm Schneider. How can you honestly feel we have too many good pieces to blow it up? How do you suggest we fix this mess? I agree with the half assed, I said so last winter. I really thought they would get one of the big 3 OF. It turns out 2 of them we would be complaining about right now if they signed, and they really had little chance at the other. As for defending them, they have made moves I thought were pretty good. It's easy with hindsight to rip everything, but many of those doing the ripping either liked the idea at the time or have proposed far worse. I don't like calling myself a fool, so I am not going to call them fools for doing things I would have done. As for Cooper, just about every coach gets blame for something over the years except one. The guy walks on water despite pitchers that aren't tremendous, the White Sox as an organization developing more of them, and spending more money on them payroll wise than they do position players. If coaches are to be blamed, he should not be exempt, There are a lot of players forming a core. Sale,Q, Rodon, Abreu, Eaton, Anderson,. Trading them all for prospects may seem like a great idea, but the reality is the odds are still against the team improving. As for payroll, I am not an heir to a White Sox investor so I couldn't care less what the payroll is.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) Gotten to the point where it seems like anything they do won't matter or save us this season. Eventually they will snap out of it, it may be too late at that point, but it will happen. Like James Shields, no team is 10-25 bad.