Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 06:01 PM) Why would they need to? They are printing as much money as the Chinese over here. And, in the next year or so, I'm sure they will start making these moves with Bryant and a few others. They've already done it with Rizzo. They can afford to be patient and wait for the best young players to separate themselves from the chaff. There's no rush to decide on guys like Russell, Baez, Soler, Schwarber, etc. Lester, Zobrist and Heyward already have their multi-year contracts. Maybe Rondon makes sense, he and Bryant. At the moment. This is the reply when the answer is "I got nothing" Bryant is repped by Boras. Do you think the Cubs could sign him to something like the average negotiator gave Sale? Do you think they are going to forget that little service time issue last year and give the Cubs a deal?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:57 PM) What else is Rick Hahn good at? I never said he can't be, he has done a good job with those 3 contracts (jury's out on Abreu now), but that he's some magical Jesus walking on water and raising Lazarus from the dead....the Joe Maddon of GM's with mystical powers, just not seeing that at all. So you think maybe someday he will be a better negotiator, but now, just because he signed better players to more team friendly contracts, well"......Lindor.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) Brilliant. I'm surprised Indians' fans are not currently clamoring to trade their front office executives. If they're reading this thread, you've probably convinced them. The fact is that Lindor is going to be the best player in the AL outside of Mike Trout. It's just that nobody will know who he is (see Jose Quintana) because he happens to play in Cleveland. Salazar has a chance to be one of the Top 5 pitchers, if he isn't there already. On Latin America alone, the Indians have beaten anything the White Sox have done AS A WHOLE the last five years. So selectively stacking up 3 of their core against the 3 best from ours....is inane at best, and obtuse at worst. What does Lindor have to do with Rick Hahn's negotiating skills, which is the subject of this thread, that you created?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:43 PM) And then they supplemented with ONE YEAR deals (see Red Sox 2013) for Napoli (Comeback Player of the Year, possibly), Rajai Davis and Uribe. None of those guys were expensive, at all. Seemingly every year, the AL Central teams since 2003 (with the exception of 2005 obviously) have been able to beat us at the free agent game...first it was the Twins, then the Tigers, now the Indians and Royals have outdone us. The only commonality is the results stay the same for the White Sox. So you've got that 8-10 core of young guys all under age 30, not to mention Cody Allen and Shaw, who has been one of the best set-up guys in baseball until recently. Plus Jose Ramirez/Salazar/Bauer, three players with tremendous surplus value at the moment. Ramirez is the closest thing in the AL to Ben Zobrist in terms of positional flexibility. Marlon Byrd and Almonte go down with PED's suspensions, no problem! Tyler Naquin has a chance to be a good player (relatively high draft pick), and then you've got 5 Top 100 prospects if you want to make a trade to "put you over the top." http://www.letsgotribe.com/2016/2/13/10985...r-clint-frazier The White Sox have one remaining Top 100 guy in Fulmer, whose value has taken a step or two back so far in his minor league career. Mike Napoli increases his OPS .036 and he is the comeback player of the year? Did you break up with Ian Desmond?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:31 PM) The point is that every GM in baseball is capable of doing the same thing. Not just Rick Hahn. You're telling me that Hahn would have gotten all those "deals" with Indians players for a 33% discount? In fact, the Indians are in much better shape with these types of contracts, and avoided the trap of taking a Boras client who will never in a million years sign an extension and lose a free agent year. Sale was cheaper than Kluber , q cheaper than Carassco, and both have an additional team friendly option year, and Eaton with the options cheaper than Santana. I wouldn't trade Sale and Q and Eaton for Kluber and Carassco and Santana. And they are the contracts Hahn negotiated are more team friendly. Someday you may introduce facts into your arguments. But if you did so on this one, the thread would never have been made,

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) Sure, you can put it there if you'd like...however, I believe this is a more detailed/different perspective that doesn't touch upon anything being mentioned in that particular thread in more than a general or generic way. So looking at the Indians proves Hahn deserves no credit for his deals. Sale's contract was 5 years $32 million with a $12.5 million option and a $13.5 million option. Q 5 years $21 million with 2 $10.5 million options after that. Eaton 5 years $23.5 million with a $9.5 million and $10.5 million option. What a myth this guy is a great contract negotiator. The ridiculousness will never end.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:17 PM) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/base...rticle21984335/ I should have replayed the SSS podcast because it wasn't clear the way it was explained. At any rate, as Beeston's close friend, JR blocked KW going because it would have undermined Beeston or pushed him out of day-to-day franchise operations....although it seems like he had an opportunity to quickly go to Boston or could join the White Sox at any time (loyalty, lifelong friend of JR, etc.) Why we would want to bring someone more known for the 1992-93 Jays' teams and less associated with the modern running of a franchise....is pretty much the same reason KW gave for hiring Ozzie over the much more experienced and 2X World Series-winning Cito Gaston. Just what we need....more cooks in the kitchen, more valuable resources not allocated into coaching/development/talent evaluation. Beeston is more involved with the business side of things than actual player evaluation. He's an accountant. He may evaluate and hire a GM, but he didn't make trades.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) Hahn is woefully over his head when signing players and evaluating talent. Maybe he doesn't have the scouting staff, yada yada yada. But his record is utterly inept. Yea he signed Sale and Q to good contracts, acquired Abreu and Eaton, but that's where the good news stops. From $10 million to Keppinger to Laroche, to Frazier, the returns have been dismal. He speaks like he's intelligent, and I'm sure he is...but he's a poor GM. I'm just praying that he makes zero moves for the rest of the season (although I'm sure he's just lining up 4 or 5 prospects to trade for Jay Bruce). Theo gave $52 million to Edwin Jackson. He gave over $100 million to Carl Crawford. He supposedly is a genius. Hahn has had a ton of guys not work out, and IMO the verdict is still out with him. But when you are signing guys at the price level he is signing them, many are not going to work out.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) Yes true.. but the Sox brass are smart enough to understand the Bruce Levine types will run with any tidbit or scrap thrown their way… so in essence, a form of a press release.. "SO TAKE IT DOWNTOWN, AND PRINT IT ! " Robin will be strung along for as long as possible.. Robin gets launched and the team continues to tank.. ? fingers get pointed back to Hahn... Of course that is what will happen. Just check the Bulls. Not many people really had a problem with blaming the ogre Thibs for the Bulls not advancing in the playoffs. Gar launches him, they do worse. Guys still get hurt. Now the target is on Gar. Once they fire Robin, they better start winning or Hahn's job status will be the talk of White Sox fans until they do.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) Yes, and Marco Paddy. On the other hand, Buddy Bell sucks at his job, was a terrible big league manager and personally vouched for Mark Teahen. What do we do for all this success, we give him a promotion. Other than blind loyalty, I can't see what he has done well or effectively, at all. KW loses his magic touch, is failing as a GM, we make him an executive VP. Then we block him from going to Toronto because JR has a "Thibs" moment when he finds out that his friend Paul Beeston is secretly trying to bring KW on board. Ironically, Beeston is now one of the execs being mentioned (by Margalus, at least) as a possible KW/Hahn successor. AA is the GM we should target, not Beeston as another "exec" who simply isn't prepared for modern baseball analysis and the quant movement...he's a dinosaur, outdated. Laumann isn't successful at drafting with a few notable exceptions like Chris Sale, we keep him on in the organization regardless. How has keeping three "failed" execs around been positive for the franchise in any way, shape or form? They just muddy the waters and make it harder for their successes to do their job effectively when everyone's competing for JR's ear. Paul Beeston had nothing to do with KW to Toronto. It was happening behind Beeston's back. Laumann is still involved with the White Sox draft. I don't think he was removed because they were unhappy with him. They have drafted pretty decently his last few drafts. But Laumann is getting older, scouting is difficult, and Hostetler was ready to be in charge.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) Interesting question. I've never heard of any other part owner of the Sox being interested. The only name I was ever told was the guy who owned the Memphis NBA franchise. He was from the Chicago area. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago I think from cancer. And as I understand it JR does not need permission from the other part owners to sell. The decision is completely his. Mark The guy that owns the South Bend A ball team and is a shareholder with the Sox would be interested. He also bought a percentage of the Cubs recently.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Do you think JR sells to the other owners or do they all sell? Forbes estimates he owns 19% of the team. He wouldn't really benefit much personally from a sale. If JR wanted to sell the team, the team goes on the block. If every other shareholder wanted to sell the team and JR didn't, the team wouldn't be for sale. I think JR dies as an owner of the White Sox. And his son really wouldn't mind taking his dad's job. All those hoping a Mark Cuban buys the team, forget it. Besides, if you added up the net worth of all the White Sox partners, it would be a pretty impressive amount.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) I don't think there's ever been any sports organization in the city, that I can recall, that spouts as much meaningless crap via the media .. it's borderline insulting…. why even bother? It wasn't a press release. Why does Levine or any other media member think Hahn is going to give Robin an ultimatum? No team does that.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) This really aggravates me about Putnam. He has been hurt for over a month and should have been on the DL. He was unable to pitch so many times in May/June and because Hahn did not put him on the DL it caused issues with the Sox bullpen depth. He has been like that every season he has been with the White Sox. He can be really effective, but he's not going to have the availability of most relievers.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) Yet they pitch him in the bottom of the 9th of a tie game?? He was hurt, then was cleared, now is hurt again.

Trade all major league quality players for prospects. Then next winter sign some minor league free agents to play for the major league team. Have a horrible team that will be lucky to win 50 games, it will be paradise. No one will complain about management anymore. No one will blame the manager when the line up doesn't feature one player that would start on the opposing team. No one will blame the hitting coach when guys who struggle in AAA aren't hitting very well at the major league level. And if the majority of prospects bust, everyone will understand.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 08:00 AM) Explain then, with this high and mighty education of his...why he has been so terrible. I assume you haven't read Larry's SSS article or refuse to acknowledge it. Write the rebuttal or counter. You're good at doing that for Don Cooper and Robin Ventura, staking out devil's advocate positions against the majority opinion. Tell us why Rick Hahn is so good at his job and what he has done to deserve retaining his position any longer. Since you don't believe he's being held back by KW, that they are basically one and the same philosophically...how can you justify keeping them, since they are the reason the talent level on the White Sox and especially in their minor league system is so poor. You say we can't fire Ventura because the players aren't good enough, so then who is responsible for that? Are you going to blame it all on JR's budgetary constraints? Then how can teams like the Rays, A's, Pirates, Astros, Twins, Royals, Indians, etc., manage to do a lot more with LESS MONEY? Let's hear it, without blaming the fans or JR. Why should Hahn keep his job? I don't think spending a spring on the bench of a HS baseball team is the difference between being a good GM and a bad one. I have yet to see one successful GM, although maybe you can provide a link, that pointed to his HS varsity letter as the catalyst in his success. BTW, the guy you never knew existed when you claimed the Sox didn't use sabermetrics, Dan Fabian, who you now say is one guy who shouldn't get fired, and maybe should get a crack at the GM job..............doesn't have a varsity letter.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) What has been the draft budget for the White Sox for the past 30 years? It's either LOWEST, 2nd lowest or 3rd from the bottom depending on which research article you go by. The manager for the White Sox has always been among the lowest paid in the majors, that still hasn't changed. I guess he skipped sending the checks to those having anything to do with hitting/defense/position player development. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Hasler and JR Perdew and Britt Burns and the minor league pitching instructors getting paid more than their peers, because Don Cooper is one of the highest paid pitching coaches in the majors and his minor league staff is also known for being excellent in this regard of preparation/instruction/development. If our scouts were so highly paid, then why they have been so terrible at their jobs for the last decade? And when I read about scouting departments, almost every team in the majors has a more extensive network than ours, particularly in Latin America. There's no way we haven't been in the bottom 25-30% over the last twenty years in TOTAL DOLLARS SPENT ON SCOUTING, both advanced scouting, amateur/collegiate and Latin American scouting. You are contradicting your previous post.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 07:49 AM) He graduated from Duke in 1989 with a double major in philosophy and political science, and, later received a JD from Duke Law School in 1995 and an MBA from the Duke Fuqua School of Business in 1995.[7] Sounds like nothing in common with Hahn EDUCATIONALLY. Northwestern and Duke are comparable. HLS is a step up from Duke, obviously. But still similar backgrounds. I was pooh-poohed for questioning Hahn's playing career/athletic background...as if it wasn't important in the least in terms of being a good MLB GM, but I think a lot of people are starting to question what exactly it is that Hahn can do well. You were pooh poohed because you made the claim that a HS Varsity letter was a requirement to be a GM in baseball. Laughable.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) JR has always firmly disagreed with this type of philosophy, believing for the most part that almost all revenues should be plugged back into the major league payroll (compared to higher salaries for managers/coaching staff/development/scouting). The only areas where he apparently is willing to spend above an average amount are 1) Don Cooper, 2) Hahn's assistant GM salary and 3), Herm Schneider. Where do you get your information? He was at the forefront of paying minor league coaches, and has been instrumental in getting scouts more highly paid. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:49 PM) So a knuckleballer goes 9 innings...has a fast ball that can't top 83. How many steals did we get in this game? How many LOB? How many RISP? Oh...and our 3B got picked off from about a foot off the bag. Robin won't risk stealing bases against a knuckleballer slow ass pitcher but man...he LOVES to bunt. lol. Who are you sending? Abreu? Avi? Coats? Catcher has an awesome CS rate. He has make 13 starts, now has pitched almost 100 innings and the league is 2 for 6 stealing off him. Stupid Robin. All this information is easily accessed. You may want to look it up before you throw out more proof you have no idea what you are complaining about.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:51 PM) Everyone can relax at least until Thursday afternoon. Jones saved the game on a ball that would have given Boston a 3-1 lead, Avila saved the game twice defensively, Duke literally saved the game and then Robertson. Abreu with the big hit off an ill-advised Kimbrel fastball in a situation calling for an offspeed pitch off the plate for the wipeout. Ventura Patented Five Fielders in the Infield with a 50% success rate. Wonder who pushed that idea on him? Kimbrel with the classic closer in a non-closing situation disaster (mid 4's ERA vs. sub 2 in closing situations). Avi Garcia walk, advances to 2nd...Shuck with a huge hit as well. Rusney Castillo DFA'ed today. He signed RIGHT after the Red Sox come up short on Abreu, ironically. He was outrighted. He makes more money than Abreu.was signed a year later. Abreu should get a commission.

Gonzalez in the mound White Sox with 1 run after 9 innings, you would have to think the odds of winning were nil.

Nice victory. Still a bad showing by the offense.

Cmon ump