Dick Allen

Martinez looks like he will hit a bloop that will fall in.

Gomes sucks,

Nate is trying to throw it 110.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Not firing Steverson after last season was inexcusable. I,doubt that would have changed anything. They need a better line up. If they are serious about winning, they need to get more aSap.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) 100% been an issue for a long time Yet the answers are JB Shuck or Jason Coats. The team never has more than a couple of guys going well at the same time. I just can't understand their all in mentality and not addressing the offense except for minor leaguers up until now.another hitter might have helped Friday and today,

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) Why does our bullpen walk SO MANY batters? It is the El Duque school of pitching. Get to ball 3 on everybody.

2 runs a game offense is on the front office.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) Maybe a coach should finally tell Melky that sliding into first base is stupid. If he didn't he could have collided and been hurt. Other than that I do agree.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:34 AM) Doesn't matter if Reinsdorf won't commit the resources to build around those players. We 100% half-assed it this offseason. They had a ton of holes and they dumpster dived to fill them despite multiple impact players being available at positions of need and it being a buyers' market. I can't even blame Hahn for this f***-up, because it's clear that ownership told the front office to try and win and didn't give them a budget to pull it off. What I don't get is your need to defend all things ownership, front office, & coaching staff (except for Don Cooper). We are in the midst of a very long playoff drought despite "going for it" multiple times. Time and time again the team performs below expectations and yet you only want to hold the players accountable. It's incredibly frustrating that a poster as knowledgable as yourself refuses to see the truth. This organization completely sucks right now outside of a small core of players and the magic of Herm Schneider. How can you honestly feel we have too many good pieces to blow it up? How do you suggest we fix this mess? I agree with the half assed, I said so last winter. I really thought they would get one of the big 3 OF. It turns out 2 of them we would be complaining about right now if they signed, and they really had little chance at the other. As for defending them, they have made moves I thought were pretty good. It's easy with hindsight to rip everything, but many of those doing the ripping either liked the idea at the time or have proposed far worse. I don't like calling myself a fool, so I am not going to call them fools for doing things I would have done. As for Cooper, just about every coach gets blame for something over the years except one. The guy walks on water despite pitchers that aren't tremendous, the White Sox as an organization developing more of them, and spending more money on them payroll wise than they do position players. If coaches are to be blamed, he should not be exempt, There are a lot of players forming a core. Sale,Q, Rodon, Abreu, Eaton, Anderson,. Trading them all for prospects may seem like a great idea, but the reality is the odds are still against the team improving. As for payroll, I am not an heir to a White Sox investor so I couldn't care less what the payroll is.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) Gotten to the point where it seems like anything they do won't matter or save us this season. Eventually they will snap out of it, it may be too late at that point, but it will happen. Like James Shields, no team is 10-25 bad.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) See enclosed article. And it doesn't matter for three reasons, compared to the White Sox situation: 1) They should have at least another $5-10 million to squeeze in additional salary, especially with all the excitement in the city over the Cavs starting to spill over to baseball. 2) Much better farm system...they have multiple Top 100 prospects to trade. 3) They also have additional starting rotation pitching depth to trade from. The White Sox, if they want a real impact player, are going to have to take on a huge contract...it's going to be a veteran instead of "in his prime" player again, and someone his team is willing to dump due to salary issues. Then why did they settle on Marlin Byrd?

Prospects break your heart. I get BP every year and keep it under my bed. Here are the top 20 prospects according to them in 2010: Strasburg Heyward Naftali Perez Jesus Montero Stanton Pedro Alvarez Desmond Jennings Carlos Santana Buster Posey Chris Carter Dustin Ackley Jeremy Hellickson Ryan Westmoreland Martin PereZ Kyle Drabek Justin Smoak Brian Matusz Escobar Michael Taylor Madison Bumgarner That is baseballs top 20 6 years ago. Does that look like a roster that should contend year after year?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 09:04 AM) First of all, the Indians are "making do" just fine on a payroll that's ONLY around $90 million. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2...r_paul_d_6.html Look, the owner (Dolan) learned a lesson and didn't repeat it. PLEASE FORWARD TO JR!!! And it's $32 million over 2 years, so an average of $16 million PER YEAR, not anywhere close to the White Sox's $30 million. And, look, the free agents they brought in this time were/are bargain deals, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Juan Uribe. None were long-term commitments, all have played important roles. Seems pretty darned miraculous, compared to the KW and Hahn Regime. Could it have something to do with Salazar, Carrasco, Gomes, Carlos Santana, Francisco Lindor (one of the Top 3 young SS's in baseball), Jose Ramirez, Abraham Almonte, etc., all coming out of Latin America and GOOD INTL. SCOUTING? As far the Royals go, they have released Infante, costing $15 million over the next two years (and buyout), Gordon's been hurt so that's different than just completely non-performing/failing and that move was also about sending a PR message to their fanbase they would do whatever it took to retain some of their (even aging) core to show their appreciation for sticking it out through the lean years (both for Gordon and the fans). Vargas is the on the DL still because of TJ, but they're receiving insurance compensation, and, once again, you're talking about an injury. But, miracle of miracles, they've developed replacements despite trading away 7 of their best pitching prospects. They just sent down an OF hitting .317 (Fuentes) and are going to have to choose between an outfielder with a 1000+ OPS (Eibner) or 850ish OPS (Orlando) when Alex Gordon comes back next week from NW Arkansas. Basically, they have 5 rookies playing well beyond replacement level (700-1025 OPS)...and none of them were Top 10 BA prospects, other than Cuthbert at #10. We have....Jason Coats and Anderson. If you really want to to go through the entire White Sox payroll, it would be pretty difficult to get Top 50-75 pieces back for Robertson and Cabrera (simply freeing up their contracts would be the biggest accomplishment), Duke...even Todd Frazier right now. According to Cots, the Indians are paying $22 million this season to players who will never play for them.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:52 AM) Melky and Robertson have been good signings, I give you that. However, overall do you think Hahn and KW did a good job with this ball club from 2012- to present day? My issue is the overall inconsistencies with their plan. Or lack there of. Of course not. Although they have made moves that seemed logical that exploded in their faces. There is something about hitters when they come to the White Sox stinking the place up. Is it because of something here or a problem with the identifying? They really wanted Alex Gordon. Seemed logical. Yet he was stinking the place up before he got hurt. Biut the list is long. Abreu and Eaton are the only 2 I can recall that gave you career average offense from the start.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:36 AM) I believe the demand here is to put an even crappier product on the field at the cell for a couple seasons as long as they are winning down on the farm? Let's talk reality. There isn't patience with that. Anyone doing well in the minors needs to be promoted immediately. If the major league team sucks there always are a few players deemed to serve no purpose. They have too many good pieces to blow it up.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) Its not about simply losing Thompson. It's losing those draft picks in 2015, it's the lack of direction. Or should I say, maintaining a course for direction. They get on and off and completely misjudge talent and overall needs for the organization. Can you be honest with yourself and say KW and Hahn's tenure from 2012 and on have been a success? If they go for it-- it's half a$$, if they rebuild or should I say 'retool' it's bringing in mediocre guys or players who are just slightly above average players. White Sox fans don't want to 'lose' for the sake of losing. However, if it's apart of a TRUE rebuilding plan, Heck we would embrace it. Why? Because it means they actually have a course for a true direction. No more muddling along in mediocrity land. I think Robertson and Melky are better than a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Every draft we all get excited about 20 guys the team selects. If 2 of them actually pan out to contributing pieces, you are doing alright.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 08:20 AM) Well, one thing's for sure, that team would be significantly cheaper and the younger core would be under control for a longer window and have the flexibility built in to make more additions. With Shields now onboard, and money already spent on Turner, Latos, Rollins and Danks more or less wasted, you're talking about a total waste of 1/4th of payroll. If your payroll is $120 million and 25%/$30 million is completely dead weight or literally not on the roster, and you just narrowly avoided another huge hit with LaRoche, who you didn't even want to come back in the first place, there's something seriously wrong in the evaluation process. No AL Central team other than the Tigers has the number of "bad contracts" the White Sox have piled up over the Hahn years. And the Tigers have the luxury of spending their way out of it. The Indians and Royals have much better prepared prospects and minor league systems to fill in the gaps when their regulars go down. We have a bunch of bargains from the latest dumpster dive, so the results of such a method of talent procurement shouldn't be particularly surprising to anyone. The Indians are paying Swisher and Bourne. The Royals have about $40 million tied up into players that are doing anything. When you come up with these percentages and silly conclusions, do you even think about what you are writing? There isn't a team around that isn't going to sign someone to a bad contract. If there was, they would be a team of guys making minimum and winning minimum apparently many on Soxtalk dream.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) The thing is, in 2013 they were actually put together to compete for the division. Don't you remember the amazing Keppinger signing and retaining Peavy? The problem was, they were bad and had a manager in over his head. It wasn't until the trade deadline in 2013 that they sold off assets to bring in a few prospects (Avi and Montas). Yeah they signed Abreu in early 2014 and made trades for Eaton and Davidson but were they truly rebuilding? Looking back on it, it was nothing but a roster shake up for a few younger guys. In 2014, fans did not b**** about losing as we knew the mission was to continue to add younger pieces. The problem was 2015-- instead of staying the course, rebuild the farm and continue to add younger guys-- tohey decided to go for it! They sacrificed 1st and 2nd round draft picks and we all know how 2015 went-- disaster! So let's look back on everything: 2012- Supposed to compete for the division and do until collapse in September 2013- Supposed to compete for division-- end up being horrible--sell off assets at deadline 2014- A growing year for the new guys- focus on draft 2015- Risk draft picks to sign free agents and go for it prematurely which consequently set the team back and they were a complete disappointment (The Fire Robin chants begin) Decide NOT to trade assets at deadline-- total misjudgment by Hahn/KW 2016- Go for it again-- trade a talented outfielder in Thompson and a few others for Frazier and attempt to catch lightning in a bottle with guys like Rollins and Latos and bringing in mediocre younger guys like Lawrie and Jackson to put bandaids on a team with numerous holes. It worked in April and some of May, but now it's blowing up in their faces. This team is not good. And now we have even less talent in the farm. Let's not forget all the DFA's and the Shields deal which has been a complete disaster. Looking at the patterns of Hahn and KW, it's pretty disturbing seeing all the sidetracks they go on. To let's go for it, to adding young talent, to trading young talent to go for it again to not doing anything. The lack of a true direction is mind boggling. IMO they all need to go. Robin, Kenny and Hahn. They have failed to put together a team and system that can maintain sustainable success. The statement Hahn mentioned numerous times back in 2013 and '14 when the plan was to restock the team and system with younger talented players. 2012 was a surprise. They were not good in 2011 and brought back almost the same team minus Buehrle,I believe they set a record for rookie pitchers used, and faded down the stretch as guys like Sale ran out of gas, Pulie injuring his wrist,and Youkilis being banged up, 2013 thyey had hoped to build on it but it went south quickly. The Tyler Fowers era wasn't going as well as some predicted. They did exactly what you want them to do know, and blew it up. They goy Avi, who people were just as excited about then, as they are pissed off Trayce Thompson isn't here now. 2014 rebuilding year, didn't stop game threads from thinking they should be 145-17 at worst. The bottom line is whether they say they are trying to win or not, how much does it really matter? Would the team be so much better set for the long haul with Thompson and Semien still aoumd? I don't think so. White Sox fans are the only fans I know who think the team is doing them a favor if they don't try to win.

So because you think the Sox suck, the ideal thing to do is trade everyone away and because these players suck, teams will give you better players making less money, just because. If your goal is to have them suck , they are there. I don't know why you differentiate being trying to win and not trying to win. A bad record puts you in the same place. This isn't the Cubs who did most of their rebuild through some trades. You could trade Sale and Q and Rodon and Abreu and get some good prospects, but then what.? The Cubs spent half a billion on free agents. And even in a rebuild you will be pissed off. It was quite clear the Sox were rebuilding the second half of 2013 and 2014. That didn't seem to stop people from b****ing about losing . I actually think some people are afraid of the Sox ever being good.

I guess Coats isn't as good defensively as a lot believe.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:23 PM) That's REALLY the best "burn" you can come up with, lol? Guess you got me. Hopefully the orcs from Warcraft will just land on the field and wipe out the umpiring crew so everyone can go home and forget about baseball for 24 hours. Well, except for the media. Why? No one enjoys the Sox getting killed more than you. Just check your game thread post counts during losses vs. wins.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:21 PM) Fabian and Haber deserve to stay, fwiw. Buddy Bell has to be gone, just for his idiotic "feel good" conference calls about the farm system...can't take them anymore. Then don't listen to them. What do you think he is going to say that everyone sucks?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:21 PM) Fabian and Haber deserve to stay, fwiw. Buddy Bell has to be gone, just for his idiotic "feel good" conference calls about the farm system...can't take them anymore. What have they provided in a positive way?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:17 PM) When you would rather watch Paulino, Nestor Molina or Chris Marquez out there, you know things have taken a turn for the worse. Will throw in Zach Stewart for good measure. Did Chris Marquez ever play with Dan Coat?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:00 PM) You can't realistically blame Don Cooper for this mess after the way Shields pitched for SD against the Mariners and the fact everyone in baseball could look at his peripherals and declining velocity and increased homers and see red flag signs flashing a mile away. The rotation's ERA is around 5.50 their last 25 games. The reliever cannot throw a strike. What is Cooper's job?