Dick Allen

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) It's giving up an out. Anyone can run into a hit against a knuckleballer. Trying to bunt one is about as stupid a call as you can make; magnified by 10x in a 1-1 game in the 8th. Do you see what the league is hitting against this guy?

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) The percentage of scoring goes down either way when bunting. It depends on the hitter. The odds of him getting to second on an out were pretty slim. A fly ball wouldn't have done it. A strikeout wouldn't have done it. A group all may have done it and may have been 2. A better hitter up there I would agree with you. But u til Jason gets off the snide, you can"t anticipate a hit.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:22 PM) A team cant afford to give away outs and you sac bunt. It's just dumb. When it's Jason Coats it really isn't giving up an out. It is making said out productive.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) It's not that they lose velocity. It's a philosophy of taking some off the fastball to get it more movement. 93 with movement is better than 97 straight as an arrow. also, always trying to throw hard puts a great deal of strain on the elbow. So it's not that they "lose" it. It's done with a purpose. The problem with Rodon is the same when they drafted him. with his lack of follow through and finishing pitches, he has a difficult time being consistent and commanding the strike zone. He gets beat on the slower fastballs because he is behind in the count all the time and needs to throw fastballs. The ironic thing about it is Coops biggest success story was Matt Thornton, and when he lost a couple of MPH he wasn't nearly as effective.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:18 PM) Yeah. Gave up an out in a tie game while not in the 9th or at home. Brilliant. Yeah Jason Coats is a huge threat too.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:17 PM) And it's left up to Adam Eaton...five K's for Wright. That threat ended quickly. Another bunting strategy by Robin ends up backfiring. Wonder what the success rate has been for scoring runs in an inning where there's a bunt involved by the Sox? 10% 15%? Considering it's been 0% that Coats gets a hit, it wasn't a bad play.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 07:34 PM) This offense is just so bad year in year out. All on the front office and their inability to develop big league hitters. It amazes me Hahn doesn't at least try some cheap desperation with bats. Give Crawford a shot, if he sucks or someone better becomes available, let him go. The current crew can't get it done. I don't know how much of it you can watch and still think they can become a decent offensive team .

I don't know why anyone can hate LeBron. He seems like a good guy. He is an amazing player, obviously the best in the business. Of course anyone saying he has now exceeded Jordan is laughable, but LeBron is a likable guy. There was the whole taking my talents to South Beach, but even he sort of apologized for that later.

Melky should have hit lefty and fanned.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) Jason has 2 walks and a HBP this season otherwise is 0-11 The funny thing is thus far in his minor league career, he rarely walks.

He hit it hard at least.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 05:02 PM) Depends on how the organization sees Fulmer and Adams going forward. Nobody is untouchable if another team is willing to give you more than you feel they're inherently worth...especially with the injury risk with pitchers being so high. Theoretically, you'd say that Anderson and Rodon are it....but, once again, what are the odds of getting max value from Eaton/Q/Sale? Trading Frazier and Abreu at this point (eroded values) doesn't make sense. That leaves you working on the periphery again....clearing out Cabrera, Robertson, possibly Jones (or you make him your closer and/or wait for Burdi) and Lawrie. These aren't going to net you much better prospects than Avi/Davidson, but are more done for salary relief purposes. Just for symbolic purposes, they need to move on from Avi as well. The problem is that once you've traded Cabrera/Robertson/Jones/Lawrie/Garcia, then what's the point having your core intact if that core is going to have to wait at least 1-2 years for those newly-acquired players just to get their feet wet in the big leagues? So it all depends on how advanced the prospects are...if the best you can get is players that are in High A ball this season, then there's really little advantage to holding Sale/Q/Eaton because by the time they've established themselves as big leaguers, one of those players is either hurt/diminished in value or the window's already starting to close with their contracts. In other words, you will tell us what you would have done now sometime down the road.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) A 13-2 game is more likely to destroy your bullpen for the next couple of days. True to a point. They usually get a lamb in there who you really wouldn't use in a tight game anyway.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) By the way, I wasn't disagreeing with your notion on the overall 1-2 though in the actual games pitched. One would never know for sure, but I certainly wouldn't have been pegging either of the other options for some shutout or great game. In general, I think the bigger issue with this franchise is we are in a go for broke mode without having the appropriate resources to have a quality / worthwhile success rate on executing the strategy. That issue is bigger than the GM's and driven by the owner and this isn't going to change without a new owner / different vision (which given JR's age, I can't see him wanting to oversee a long haul rebuild). I personally presume he's viewing this as a, get into the playoffs if at all possible (for his own enjoyment) but also potentially to maximize / improve potential valuations. I don't expect him to be the owner for much longer (and no I'm not being morbid here, just saying I think he's going to sell the franchise sooner vs. later so he can see the direction it goes vs. putting it into a trust (now this could also be him just removing himself from chair duties and someone else stepping in since there are other stakeholders in the equation). Shields really isn't go for broke though is he? SD is paying him more than the White Sox. The Sox just need him to be a #4 starter. So far, obviously it looks bad, but it just is hard for me to think he can really possibly be this bad. I am sure the Sox didn't want to pay John Danks to sit at home. Same with Latos. I'm also sure they would love Erik Johnson to be pitching decently in their rotation. It wasn't happening. They probably rushed acquiring Shields. I'd imagine if he did the same thing in SD as he has done with his Sox starts, he would be even cheaper if they wanted him at all. But he can't be this bad. No one is. Hopefully he figures something out and silences his critics. We will see what happens on Thursday. We do know any Red Sox kept out of the line up isn't going to be happy with Farrell. Maybe Big Game James will shock the world and be decent. They need offense. 2 runs each game in Cleveland. I thought, or at least hoped Hahn had something up his sleeve and the offense would get a boost for that series. But scoring 2 a game isn't going get you wins, and frankly I would rather the Sox lose 13-2 than 3-2.

There have definitely been some Cuban busts lately.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) He's fine. I didn't see a lot of people claiming we rushed Rodon and that he needed to take his lumps in Charlotte at the end of last season. If he were in Charlotte there'd be no lumps, he'd just be dominating. We haven't seen his best baseball yet. It's unfortunate he hasn't rocketed off like Aaron Nola, but he also doesn't get to face all those squishy NL lineups. There would be clamouring to call him up. I don't know what anyone has against Rodon. He is young, he will have some struggles, but if he stays healthy, he is going to dominate. If Don Cooper is the pitching guru he is built up to be, wouldn't you want him under his watchful eye rather than Richard Dotson's?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) How many games did they loose because of how taxed the pen was though? I don't know, but there could be a carryover effect there which could drive Shields bad performance to costing us other games because of the use of the bullpen. It would be hard to tell in the long run, but in the games following, no effect. The first bad one, they won the next 2 games. The next one, they lost 11-8 but Gonzalez gave up 7 in 3 1/3 and Purke gave up 3. You could argue they wouldn't have used Purke because he was one they didn't use before, but it would be hard to imagine the Sox bullpen going 5 2/3 and not giving up anything. And losing Sunday had nothing to do with the bullpen being taxed on Saturday. Eventually it will, but I think Shields will eventually improve.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) Yeah, it has to be that. It can't be because Alomar wanted to wait for the opportunity to work for a better-run organization. Renteria had no qualms about taking the bench coach position and, presumably, the manager position next season. That tells you that he actually wants to work for the Sox. If I'm hiring and the guy I liked the most chose to continue in a lower-level position with a different organization, I have second thoughts about interviewing that guy again. The Sox had to wait on Renteria because if Bud Black got the Washington job, he was going with him. We do know they wanted to speak to Sandy, to say one was the #1 choice, we really don't know, but the Sox seem happy with what they got. Sandy did say he wouldn't take the job out of respect to Robin, but I believe he refused to interview.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:43 AM) Danks was done, but nevertheless - in his 4 starts before being cut: - Never went less than 5 IP - Never gave up more than 6 ER In the 3 starts from Shields with us: - *He's gone 5 IP once - He's never given up LESS than 6 ER And there's always that last start from SD we can throw in for an "apples to apples" comparison. So if Danks is done (and we agree) based on his numbers, what logic enables you to continue to argue that Shields is not? *This, in a game where we are already losing 6-0 after 2 innings! His starts before his bad streak. And other than to run differential people, does it matter if you lose 6-2 vs. 13-2?

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) Dick - I'm not the one trying to prove anything. I am saying that YOU CAN NOT PROVE how the Sox offense performs by simply substituting a pitcher that has been DFA'd into a game log. And the even bigger point is that we cut and/or traded the other guys so GOING FORWARD, we are WORSE off in the likely scenario this continues rather than having some options if we stood pat and or addressed another (more important) need. We will see. Danks was done. I was one of his biggest fans. Latos was struggling. No one else picked him up. Kind of telling. Erik Johnson's ERA with the Padres is over 10.00. We saw enough of him to realize it was going to be tough winning on the days he pitched. Shields has been as awful as anyone can be. But he was pretty good before his last 4 starts and has a decent track record. There are obviously concerns, but he won't be this bad forever.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:15 AM) Okay. People's gripe should be that Rick Hahn is okay with being in charge but not really being in charge. I think Rick is responsible for all of the moves but Reinsdorf obviously has to sign off on all of them. That's my point. Rick Hahn may see a viable scenario in which selling off parts makes sense. Kenny may feel the same way but if JR doesn't want to do that, then they need to do what is currently being done. Well then what is the deal with Shields. Was that totally JR? Was it KW, was it Hahn? I think it was all 3. I really don't see where anyone can come to the conclusion that Hahn wants to blow it up. Has he ever hinted it? I think it is just people who want the White Sox to blow it up who are hoping beyond hope Rick Hahn agrees with them. I don't think he does, and my source, which is nobody, is just as good as the source that says he wants to get rid of everyone.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) They scored a bunch of runs that whole series because DETROIT PITCHING SUCKS! But whatever, Dick - Have fun with your rationalization of Shields and conclusions drawn based on nothing but your own "confidence." So it had nothing to do with Shields. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. And aren't you doing the same thing you are accusing me of being such a dope to do?

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) But they didn't score 10 runs with Shields pitching. They scored 6. The rest came after he was out, and simultaneously, so was the Tigers starter (Boyd). But they did that game. They scored 4 runs against the Nats and 2 runs against Cleveland. I am very confident believing if Danks, Johnson, or Latos started those games, they would have been losses. It's amazing you even want to argue that considering how the team has done recently with Sale, Q, or Rodon on the mound. The bottom line is Shields has been awful, but the change in the rotation hasn't really effected the team's record.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) Yes, silly indeed. I mean - of course having guys run around for 45 minutes while 7 plus runs cross the plate in the 1ST INNING doesn't have an effect on them at the plate. Why would it? How did they scored 10 his second start? Why don't they score for Quintana? I'm guessing the opposing pitcher has far more to do with the White Sox offense any particular day than the White Sox pitcher. But yes, Danks was terrific this year and would have shut those nasty Nats down. And I am sure, despite his 10.00 + ERA, Erik Johnson would have pitched gems each time out. And Latos was terrific his last few starts. No reason to believe he couldn't hold the Indians to 1 or 2 runs.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) Oh, sorry. Didn't realize Hahn said his Boss was fine with wasting money a terrible acquisition. Case closed. I know you are being sarcastic, but it pretty much is. Hahn isn't getting fired. KW isn't getting fired. Anyone want to bet on that?