Dick Allen

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) Same "thought process" that left him no other choice but to leave in Carroll against the Rangers -- just pray and wing it! What should the line up be tonight?

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 06:16 PM) You forgot Hahn. Supposedly this is his roster. If it is KW's then I agree w you. I assume you are happy w the offense??? I would include Steverson and Buddy Bell if they can find him. In fact throw in Herb Schneider. He has contributed to the downfall by keeping lousy players healthy. The Herm Schneider made me laugh. I am going to use it.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) True fact! But how bad are we? Individually, our guys have been successful on both good teams and bad. Robertson was a stud on a good Yankees team, Frazier was a stud on a bad Reds team, Melky played well on some decent teams. LaRoche played well for a good Nationals team. Sale has been GREAT on some awful teams! This is probably the best starting 5 that either of our catchers have caught in their careers--both have been somewhat successful on other teams. You can go on! Collectively, our good players do not play well together. So you have to ask, what keeps that from happening? A good manager would not make our current team a good one overnight, but a good manager WOULD improve the culture of the team and you'd like to think that would lead to a higher probability of success over time and a higher expectation for new blood coming into the organization. I'm not buying it. These guys have been great, good, average, bad, and awful this year alone. They were 23-10. Was he a genius then a total moron? The truth is in between. The hot start got a lot of people excited, probably too much so, and this down period has a lot of people wondering if they will ever be average again. The truth almost certainly lies somewhere in the middle.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) "Some other managers who turned out to be good had bad records at first, too" isn't exactly a bulletproof argument. Many more managers with bad records turned out to be bad and always had bad records. The fact is, if you manage a bad team, you will have a bad record. If you think the White Sox are a bad team, no manager is going to make them a good one.

Rick Renteria managerial winning pct. .451 Robin Ventura managerial winning pct. .461

QUOTE (Tony @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Anderson is leading off, with Eaton batting second. At least he won't hit into a DP his first AB.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) I do not want to hijack this thread but I simply can't let this pass. It's really hard for any GM to build a good minor league system when the operating 'philosophy' runs counter to that. Eddie Einhorn expressed that philosophy early on in the new ownerships tenure: (Paraphrasing) 'The way to win in baseball is with trades and free agent signings.' Many claim that philosophy still exists today. And there's a reason why JR fought for so many years to get a slot system in the draft. He's also publicly stated he does not like to pay unproven, untested players top dollar. From a business sense I understand that and would probably agree with it...but baseball wasn't run that way for better or worse. Instead of adapting, he continued to swim upstream against it. Which as owner was his right. But the Sox paid the price for it. If the Brown / Bonds situation is brought up, how about the Mike Trout one? The draft is not an exact science. every GM today, every GM in the past has blown picks. When ownership isn't interested in a solid minor league system, when ownership won't allocate resources to it (for example Mark Gonzales when he was the Sox beat writer posted a story stating that in terms of money spent on minor league talent the Sox were dead last in major league baseball for a five year period. I think it was something like 2007-2011) it's hard for any GM to work miracles. And that's not even counting the caliber of the minor league coaches, managers and instructors. Mark Yet Larry Himes was able to get it done under the same ownership, and you threw a "well he had top 10 picks" in there. So did Roland and he failed miserably. Don't downplay Larry Himes, and then come up with excuses for Roland. One difference between the Mike Trout one was a lot more teams passed on Trout. Bonds was the next pick after Brown. Don't tell me you wouldn't be holding that against KW ever.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) In my opinion Roland was the best GM JR ever had but your point about the minor league system is valid. Of course having four top picks in a row didn't hurt. And by top picks I mean in the top 10. Mark Roland got the axe because the minor league system was embarrassing. The guys they were calling up in 1985 were not major leaguers in any way. Roland's a nice guy, but if you use the same criteria on him you use on everyone else, his being fired was deserved. Kurt Brown over Barry Bonds with the 5th overall pick in the 1985 draft? Oops. Some of Roland's top 10 picks, Baines, nice, Daryl Boston at 7, Cecil Espy at 8, Steve Trout at 8, Steve Bueschele a decent player at 9, but didn't sign. Why would you draft a HS player at 9 who isn't going to sign?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) If Anderson hits and can be moved up to the 2-spot, would anyone be opposed to Bourgeois or Leury Garcia patrolling center and hitting 9th? Don't really know how they're doing defensively, but it could add another solid defender in center pushing Eaton back to right with more speed and flexibility on the roster. No. They won't win with that.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 08:03 AM) McNeil should be Kaplan's partner on 1000. That would be interesting. As much as his Cubs love does sometimes get in the way of what one would consider a professional broadcast, Kaplan is supposedly one of the nicest guys in the industry. He has had Danny Mac on his CSN show a few times, and they seem to get along pretty well. But Danny Mac eventually has problems with everybody. It would be interesting to see how long it takes for him to get Kap to crack.

Until yesterday, Lawrie had been hitting the ball pretty hard lately.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 07:33 AM) Just a hunch, but if the Sox lose this series, I expect that to be it for RV. I agree, even though I think it will do no good. They are running out of options. The new guy will be an idiot until either Morneau comes back and is decent, or another bat is acquired. This lack of offense has been going on a few years now. Either they need to re-evaluate how they target guys or they need someone new acquiring them. One thing that is never discussed is JR loves "I told you so" moments. When they won the division in 1983, his locker room comments were directed at Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall. When they won the divison in 2000, his comments were to all the people who ripped the "White Flag" trade. There is nothing more he wants to do than win with Robin managing. He would like to stick it up all Robin's critics butts. It's one reason he still regrets letting LaRussa go. Most here are too young to remember those years, but even before the internet, he was always blasted. It was just as harsh or even more harsh than it is at Robin. But it is getting to the point where he really can't give him an extension, and they have to "do something". If they don't win 2 out of 3, I'm with you, I don't think he will be boarding their charter with the Hawkeroo.

The Royals are 2-8 their last 10.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 07:20 PM) Abreu hit a 98 MPH fastball today, there's something more mental and/or mechanics oriented going on there. The problem isn't even Abreu (or having a clean-up hitter) so much as the fact that Brett Lawrie's our fifth best hitter. That tells you all you need to know. We need at least 1 if not 2 BETTER hitters. That said, if you look at that 2012 team, it should have been converted into more assets. You had building blocks in Sale/Q/Santiago already to serve as your rotation. Peavy wasn't converted into Iglesias, but Avi instead, who we couldn't trade for more than Erik Johnson or Carlos Sanchez right now. Rios brought back Leury Garcia. Dunn was a perennial All-Star or at least put up 900+ OPS seasons at the very least. You had assets in Santos and Reed (maybe Santos had just been dealt for Molina to open the role for Reed, would have to look it up) which were turned into absolutely nothing. Obviously a lot of the players on that team just didn't last, especially the rookie pitchers. Nate Jones is still around, though, along with Sale and Q. We had a number of busts there also with Beckham, Viciedo....not to mention the eventual deterioration in the play of Alexei Ramirez and DeAza to look forward to. The end of the AJ years and the "coming" of Tyler Flowers. If we had made the right trades, drafted better players who were ready to contribute in 2013-14 (see the likes of Gillaspie/Flowers)...just too much patchwork (see Jeff Keppinger) and band aids, not enough high ceiling talent. At any rate, I still don't trust Hahn as a judge or evaluator of talent. I would rather give the job to Hostetler today and let him rebuild the system than let Rick Hahn make those same decisions. Santiago was turned into Adam Eaton. It was a frwaking steal, Santiago is horrible. He is a home run throwing machine who is lucky to make it through the 5th inning. Rios was shopped around, no one wanted to pay much for him., which isn't surprising since the Sox had to give up nothing to get him. Dunn wasn't bringing anything back. The Reed trade was bad, but most here loved it. The team was cooked, Paulie was never the same after his wrist injury, and the Sox dodged a bullet not bring Youk back. They got a good return for Peavy. Not just Avi.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 06:50 PM) 1) Was Dayton Moore expected to have a "playoff" window within five years of taking over the team? 2) Had the White Sox been twenty years removed from the sniffing the playoffs? 3) Did the White Sox have a MUCH bigger operational budget to work with and many built-in advantages? If you guaranteed every Sox fan a ten team games over .500 in Year 7-8, two World Series appearances, one title and one near miss and a two year window remaining after that, you wouldn't find many fans who wouldn't take that...even if it meant waiting until 2024. Why was Dayton Moore not expected to win in 5 years but Rick Han was? KW dumped it on Hahn when the window was closed. 2013 the talent was old, and done. Not much he could do. Of course you have to figure he wasn't totally innocent since he was part of the decision making process for many years, but it isn' like this is a 100 loss team. They are still right around .500 with a month they haven't had in years. The one thing I am very concerned about is they seem to have lost their mojo when it comes to identifying offense. They always had a good offense until about 2007. Seemed to bounce back in 2008, but back to crap until 2012 when they had 5 guys crank at least 25 homers. Since then, horrible. They need some home run hitters, since they moved into this park, they have had one team that was good that wasn't a home run hitting team. Their reclamation projects hitting and pitching mostly always seemed to work. Now it as if all of them if they don't get released, would be by successful teams. Hahn, whether he cans Robin or not, needs to get a middle of the line up hitter pronto. Maybe with Morneau available in a month it lessens the need it be left handed, but if the White Sox are truly committed to winning this year they have to make this happen quickly. At best, the offense as currently constructed is going to be massively inconsistent,

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) Why would anyone in their right mind trust KW or Hahn to "rebuild" this roster? What has Hahn done to earn that trust? Stayed a "loyal soldier" for a decade? Bringing up Anderson before he was 100% ready should be the last straw if you're JR...along with overpaying for James Shields. Dayton Morre took over KC in 2006. They sucked and sucked and sucked, then in 2014 they were good, and you acted like he invented baseball . So Hahn has several more years until he proves worthless.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) At this point, a target should be placed on Hahn & KW's backs. It's bulls*** they continue to blame the players when they are the ones who put the team together. If the players are once again underperforming (their opinion), then they should want to fire Robin and see if another manager can get them to play up to their potential. Right now, it feels like they're keeping Robin around to avoid the heat being brought onto them and ensuring themselves another year by canning him in the offseason. This doesn't match up with your must fire Robin post, saying that should do some good is saying the team is good enough to win. They just need a better manager. Football, basketball, hockey, you change the coach, you change a lot more than what you change when you fir a manager in baseball. But they are running out of things to do. To me, Anderson was total desperation. I think he is eventually going to be a really fun player. But at this point, unless Rollins was a clubhouse problem, and all indications are the opposite, I really don't think he gives you a better chance at winning that what was here before. At some point, I think he will, but not now. It shows they are running out of ideas. I would think Robin is close to being gone. They probably give him this series, but if they don't win at least 2, I think most fans will get their wish. And if that doesn't work, I think a fire sale and a semi rebuild occurs which more than likely buys KW and RH more employment.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 05:39 PM) Do people seriously want to trade MORE young players to add veterans to this team? Especially with Hahn doing the trading and evaluating? Good lord. If Hahn is so bad at evaluating, why would his prospects be any good?

QUOTE (thigpen89 @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 05:30 PM) Firing Ventura now would be pointless. This team is just not a contender no matter how many moves are made. Ventura's salary still needs to be paid, and how often does a mid season managerial change ever result in the playoffs? It doesn't, but people will point out Trader Jack and the Marlins after they fired Torborg. They forget Willis and Cabrera came with him. The Indians once started hitting after Eddie Murray was fired as their hitting coach. Supposedly they all hated him, and his removal made for a better atmosphere. I don't think that is the case with Robin. Unless they give the new guy another hitter or 2, if he managed today's game or yesterday's game, I don't think they would have scored more than 1 in either of them. But it will placate the fan base, and if they don't contend this season, they aren't bringing him back anyway, but it will, as Gar Forman found out, put the target on KW and RH if the team doesn't drastically improve with the same players.

Rodman got suspended 11 games for kicking a cameraman in the nuts.

if you really cling to the extremely silly notion that the Sox are on their way out of town, what motivation would they have of being a good team? It would be all about the bottom line. They would be running their team like the Marlins, and having a fire sale.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) Listening to Buster Olney's podcast last week, he said his sources haven't given him any sense Ventura is in danger. Take it for what it's worth. I am one of Robin's biggest backers, but I really think if he doesn't get launched before tomorrow's game, the Sox have to take 2 out of 3 for him to make the road trip, I don't think he is the reason they scored 1 run yesterday and 1 run today. I don't think he is the reason they are struggling, but RH and KW are selling this year as potentially special and they are running out of things to do. Acquiring some offense would work a lot better. I am not saying I would fire him because I wouldn't. But I think it is getting close in RH and KW offices.

Has Anderson had any balls hit to him?

It will be interesting to see how many guys they draft make the major leagues. Over the last 10 years they have had 3 or 4 drafts where they had 9 picks from a draft make it, pretty surprising, but most performed at about replacement level.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 12, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) He's had a whole 10 plate appearances and still gotten on 3 times. Funny, when Avila does that, he is washed up.