BearSox

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 12:16 PM) So that we can move Jenks and make Thornton the closer? No, so we can have a second lefty in the pen that we won't be scared to use in certain situations. Probably more of a LOOGY than anything else. However, the only problem with getting a LOOGY is that Ozzie has shown with Boone Logan that he has no idea how to use a LOOGY.

we're still looking for relievers? I can only assume we are looking for a second lefty out of the pen. As for a hitter, I assume we're looking for someone who can play 1B, 3B, and LF. Teahen fits that description perfectly.

I think the Brewers should definitely trade one of Gamel or Escobar. Both have a ton of value around the league, but I have trouble seeing either of them becoming anything more than just decent ball players. Actually, I can see Escobar becoming a right handed version of Juan Pierre offensively, which isn't bad at all, especially considering he'd be playing good D at a premium position. I think Gamel would be the most logical to trade. He doesn't have a position yet (he's not very good at 3B from what I've heard, LF is occupied, can he play RF?, and is his bat good enough to play 1B?), and he hasn't wowed me when I've seen him at bat. He looks decent up there, but he doesn't look like a dangerous hitter. He kind of reminds me of Teahen.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 12:08 AM) That was only part of it. Ozzie wanted to give him a chance to leave the game on a high note, and to earn a well-deserved W. It's part of Richard's development. The truth is that all young players have a certain degree of "fragility" that is overcome over time with confidence obtained through success at the Major League level. You can choose to dismiss that fact if you wish, but keep in mind that people who have been watching/playing sports a lot longer than you disagree with you. Ozzie certainly disagrees with you, and he knows a hell of a lot more about managing and developing young baseball players than anybody here. Ozzie is the manager, but many people, not only myself, question his ability to develop young baseball players. And just because Ozzie should know a lot more, he isn't always right. Not talking about tonight, but I've and many have been more than angry at Ozzie in the past for some very questionable managing. Plus, I don't care what anyone says, I could make a better manager than Jerry Manuel. Half of this board can.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:53 PM) If you don't want age brought into the discussion, don't make remarks like, "As a former player..." It's not like you have any special advanced baseball experience or insight that others here are lacking. The vast majority of people here also played Little League and high school ball. I'm sure that you know a fair share about baseball, but the fact that you're still puzzled as to why Richard was removed in the 8th after throwing a 116-pitch gem suggests that you don't know much about handling players. These are real people, not fantasy video game players. Instilling confidence in young players and protecting their arms are important. There's a reason why Ozzie has a lot more success with young pitchers than people like Dusty Baker and Jerry Manuel. Nope, not really puzzled, I know why he was taken out, because of a "high" pitch count. I also realize this is the real world, but if you think 1-10 pitches (depending on how he does that inning) will make a huge impact on his arm, you are sorely mistaken. Plus, this is ONE, count it, ONE start. I've never said anything about having him go out there every 5th day and throw 120+ pitches. Today he was on, and he should have been given the chance to finish it off. Also, the confidence talk is overrated. Even if does come in, give up a base hit to the first batter and then get taken out, and Jenks still blows it, if Richard has his confidence hurt, he's way too fragile to begin with. QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:53 PM) Apparently you haven't read my other posts... I tend to respond well to posters who don't try to shove their opinions down my throat. Want a cookie? Also, show me where I shoved my opinions down your throat. I disagreed, but I never stated "you're an embarrasment and you're wrong, shut up!"

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:23 PM) No, nobody called you an "idiot." You just need to realize that being an 18-year-old former Little Leaguer doesn't make you an expert in handling pitching staffs. Everybody has opinions, but it's not wise to argue them vehemently (with poor supporting evidence, to boot) in the faces of people who've been watching (and possibly playing) baseball a heck of a lot longer than you have. You're not even considering opposing opinions. You're just arguing for the sake or arguing at this point. Here comes the age argument. Yeah, I'm 18, but that doesn't mean I'm some novice. My whole life has been baseball (and football). I think I know a thing or two. As for my points, I think they're pretty valid. And if I'm not considering opposing opinions, what are you doing?

The Braves are looking for offense and maybe even relief pitching. The Braves are willing to deal Escobar, but that'd have to be for a blockbuster package, like the rumored Holliday and Cabrera trade with Oakland. Heyward, Hanson, and Freedmon are as untouchable as Beckham. If I had to guess, the Braves were likely looking at Dye or Dotel/Linebrink.

I've been concerned with Bobby since 2006. If he doesn't get his secondary stuff over, he's very hittable. Not to mention the screw in his elbow.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:16 PM) Please stop embarrassing yourself. Nobody in this thread agrees with you, and you're beginning to sound like one of the people who irrationally scream at Chris Rongey during the post-game show. Wow, good argument. Yeah, I'm an idiot because I don't agree with the majority on here. Thanks.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:05 PM) There's a reason why young pitchers who have had a rough time in the bigs and have surpassed 130 IP/season ONCE in their minor-league careers, are taken out after 116 pitches during a rare phenomenal start. Since you apparently know everything about baseball, I'll let you figure it out. So what, you telling me his arm isn't conditioned enough to throw more than 120 pitches in one start after 3 months of starting? I'm sorry, I don't see it. QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:05 PM) And if you blew the lead (or your elbow), you'd feel like complete crap afterwards. I'll bet that Mark Buehrle would volunteer go another 9 innings on one day's rest. But that doesn't make it a good idea. Yeah, cause that Buehrle comparison really relates to what I was talking about! And did I ever say anything about having Richard go out there and get rocked? No, if he doesn't look good after the first batter take him out. And please tell me how 10 more pitches would blow out his elbow. Please oh please tell me.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:00 PM) Please stop. You have NO idea how good Richard felt. He was already showing signs in the 8th. He started getting behind batters but still managed to get out of it. He had a great start. You don't want to risk him losing the confidence if he gave up the lead in the 9th. He's been s***ty as balls lately anyway. You take him out after 8 and take it as a huge positive. Sure, you'd WANT to go out there and finish it, but it doesn't mean you can successfully do so. You aren't the only person here to ever play baseball. True, I have no idea how Richard felt. Even so, why not give him the opportunity in the 9th with a short leash? He walks the first batter, or gives up a hit, fine. Have the bullpen ready to relieve him. But one thing is for sure, he'd have a whole lot more confidence and be a whole lot more happy with a complete game W instead of a very promising 8 inning ND. And really, he showed signs of slowing down in the 8th? How so? Okay, he fell behind Dillon, but that wasn't there had been a couple times within the game where Richard fell behind a hitter. But he still got the out. Maybe a little red flag. Second batter, he threw first pitch strike, second pitch ball, and got him to ground out in what should have been an out if not for Beckham short arming the ball (still have no idea how they gave Navarro a hit on that. Is Navarro that fast he would have beaten it out?). Okay, he made a good pitch to Navarro, but the ball didn't bounce his way, but he looked fine that AB. Next batter, he comes right after Upton, throws two very good fastballs in good locations and gets Upton to ground out into the DP. I'm sorry, but I don't see the fatigue.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) Poreda is good because of the sinking action he gets on his fastball. The velocity was down but I saw him clocked pretty consistently in the 90-94 range which is pretty consistent with how he pitches. In short-bursts he'll hit 96-97. I'm not sure if the Sox told him to take it down 1-2 or what though cause it definately wasn't as "advertised" in terms of velocity but it rarely is (and that isn't just with the Sox). Minor league guns tend to be a bit juiced. Regardless the sink at a good velocity is what makes him special or at least intriguing, imo. For a sinkerball pitcher, velocity is something you don't necessarily want. 90-94 is perfect. Hell, 94 might be a bit too fast. The faster the ball gets up to the pitcher, the less time the ball has to sink. However, I would like to see a 4 seamer that he can throw once in a while in the 95-97 range. I haven't seen it yet, but the fact he is in the bullpen and not the rotation might have changed his approach and perhaps his fastball gets stronger as he goes in a game.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:51 PM) FAIL Fail at what? Is that the only reply you have? Good one. QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:51 PM) You, as a former Little League/high school player, know how to handle a pitching staff better than Ozzie? That's pretty funny. I stated that wrongly. From a players standpoint, would you rather be given the chance to finish what you started, or have the fate of the game be put in someone else's hand? If I was Richard tonight, I absolutely want to go out there in the 9th.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:47 PM) obviously not as a professional player.

Lack of control (or maybe even confidence) in his secondary stuff and a nothing 92 mph fastball he throws right down the middle when he falls behind hitters. That's a recipe for suckage.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:36 PM) Dusty Baker loves this line of thinking. No one is saying run the pitcher out there to throw 120+ pitches every game no matter what. Tonight is the exception though. Richard was dealing, it was a 2-1 ball game, he got us thus far, let him try and finish it off. If your a MLB pitcher and you can't handle throwing 120-130 pitches once in a great while, especially when you are only 25, you don't belong in the MLB.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) No, you need to "get real." Richard had been sucking ass for the past month, and responded with a brilliant 8-inning outing. At that point, you put him in a position to win the game. You don't let him go out in the 9th to lose it due to fatigue, or put undue stress on his unconditioned arm. If you can't trust an established, high-tier closer to shut the door in the 9th, you need to look for another closer. The past month had nothing to do with tonight. Who the f*** cares what his past month looked like? Tonight was all that mattered, and he had everything working for him. Also, his arm is unconditioned? He's been starting for what, 3 months now? If his arm isn't conditioned, he shouldn't be starting right now. Also, it really had nothing to do with the closer in that situation in the first place. I mentioned Jenks struggling his previous couple outings, but that should have had no bearing on the decision. Tonight was not the type of game where you go to the bullpen when you have your pitcher pitching as well as Richard was. You put him out there on a short leash. If he looks fatigued out there and he doesn't have the same stuff/control as the previous 8, fine take him out. Also, what's better, giving your pitcher a chance to win it? Or let someone else finish the game for him and close the book on you? I, as a former player, would prefer the former.

QUOTE (CarlosMartinez @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:35 PM) But you were probably screaming at Oz for leaving him in for the 8th before he got the dp... Ah, nope. He had every right to be out there, Richard looked fantastic today, he had everything going for him. And that "hit" he gave up to Navarro was a weakly hit grounder that should have been an error on Beckham.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:33 PM) And if either Jenks or Richard struck out the side in the 9th this evening, somebody at Soxtalk would find something else to complain about. That 7th inning left a lot to complain about, win or lose. Same thing with the win yesterday. Our hitting late in games has been god awful.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) And when Richard went down for Tommy John surgery in 3 weeks, everyone would be calling for Ozzie's head for ruining a young starter. Are you serious? I'm sure because Clayton threw more than 100 pitches in a game, his arm would fall off. Give me a break dude. He can handle 116, but 126 is too much, especially for a 25 year old pitcher? Not to mention he's coming off a nice long rest and hasn't had a long workload at all this season. Get real.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:27 PM) i'm more worried about his belt high 92mph fastballs Yes, those tend to raise one's whip.

What a f***ing stupid move to take out Richard. He's been dealing the whole game, it's only a 1 run game, and you don't even give your starter that got you thus far a shot at closing it out? So f***ing what if his pitch count was at 116. You think a couple more pitches are gonna make his arm fall off? It made absolutely no sense not to put him back out there with a short leash. To make matters worse, you put in Jenks who has struggled severely in his last 2 or 3 save chances. Pure stupidity. Way too go Guillen, you ruin what was a very fun game to watch by taking out your starter because of a "high pitch count". f***ing stupid.

lol, I was looking at the related videos, and I guess this was a whole add campaign sprite wanted to try out in germany...

Germans really love to have blowjobs involved in their commercials:

What an awesome commercial.