BearSox

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:42 PM) I'd think very hard about dealing Alexei for Clay, but no way on Halladay because of short contract length and amount of money owed. I have no idea why you're always so down on Alexei either. Are there players who hit like he does and do not make mistakes in the field? Are there even players at all who don't make mistakes in the field? Let the kid continue to learn. I'd be much happier with Alexei-Beckham up the middle over Beckham-Getz. Personally I love Alexei. I think Alexei's mental aspect of his game is going to led him to being a solid player instead of a great player. And personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see a dip in production in upcomming years. He just hasn't shown much baseball smarts out there, thinks he's the cuban babe ruth, and a couple other things about his game that have annoyed me (he likes to act very flashy, and he seems afraid of contact). Also, it's not that I don't like Alexei, I really like him, and have been his biggest fan in the past (I'm pretty sure I was the only one calling for him to start at 2B last year on opening day). Plus, I'm not sure he's the type of player you shell out big money to in 2 years (he'll be asking for a lot). I wouldn't trade him for the sake of a trading him, but if I could get an ace pitcher from him, I'd do it.

I doubt Schaffer is on their untouchable list, at least not anymore.

Who cares, I'm pretty sure a good amount of people watching at home were cursing their heads off yelling at bobby through the TV. He sucked, fans were pissed. Get over it.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 12:26 AM) Kerry Wood? And I don't buy that they were "more conditioned" in the past. The old guys would smoke, get drunk and eat s***ty food every night. Never worked out. Never had trainers. Minor injuries now were career ending back then. If anything, they just don't pitch through pain as much. There's no way the old timers could throw 150 pitches every couple days and not be hurting. Kerry Wood threw and still does throw across his body. Anyone with his velocity who throws across their body are going to have injury problems, plain and simple. He falls into the category of bad mechanics. His injury problems were likely accelerated a bit due to heavy workload, but he was going to blow out his elbow sooner rather than later. I also don't know how the "old timers" did it or felt, but a good majority of them did do it. Look at the career stats for so many of the "old timers". You got Juan Marical, Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Whitey Ford, Sudden Sam McDowell, Jim Kaat, Mel Stottlemyre, Gaylord Perry, Warren Spahn, etc., etc., etc. I could have kept on going, but it would take forver. And I was mainly only focusing on the 50's and 60's. Keep in mind there are tons more I could have mentioned from the 1950's and before, as well up to the early 90's. So, were these guys just freaks of nature, or were they able to handle throwing a lot more because their arms were conditioned to throw a lot? (IE, no one cared about pitch account, they had 4 man rotations, bullpen not nearly used as much, etc.). I personally think because they weren't babied and were told to go out there and get batters out and not worry about pitch count, their arms got stronger. Plus, you only aid my argument by mentioning that the "old timers" weren't nearly as in the same shape and condition as most pitchers are today. And imagine how long some of their careers would have been if they had the same advancements in medical technology as we do today. However, I'd say their arms were more conditioned because they were able to handle throwing lots more of pitches and innings then pitchers do now a days.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:05 PM) Shortest answer possible=$$$$$ Teams want to protect the assets they have. I understand that aspect and that is why pitchers are being nursed along like they are now. But I want to know why if my theory is wrong, why were pitchers more durable before they started to get these huge lumps of money? I'm not saying go crazy and have high schoolers pitch every 3rd day in rookie ball with 150 pitch counts. But I'd love for a team to break away from the flow, and try conditioning a pitchers arm to last longer. For High School guys, I'd still take it easy with about 80-90 pitch counts (and I'd wait the next season to have them pitch regularly. Most HS pitchers, at least the good ones, pitch a ton in the summer). But once they reach the age of 21 or 22, I'd start to have them work their way up to about 110-120 pitches a game. The only team out there that will be "crazy" enough to do it will probably be the Rangers.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:41 PM) I'm with you. There's a reason he has been in the minors for the past year. It's cuz of the organization as to why he is so touted. Buchholz has fantastic stuff, and he's got pitbull attitude on the mound from what I've heard/read. His problems have been control and consistency at the MLB level though, and his frame leaves question marks about him being able to hold up over a long season. He'd be a top prospect anywhere, but since he is with Boston, he's the second coming of Nolan Ryan or some hyped up crap like that.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:27 PM) What is with you wanting to trading Alexei? He's a huge piece of our future. Also, his defense has been a lot better lately. He might just be the complete package at SS. KW should only trade him in a huge package. I'd trade Alexei in a heartbeat for Halladay and it's very tempting for a potential ace or no. 2 in Buchholz. I think Alexei's value is the highest it'll ever be, and while he is a very solid player, he's prone to a lot of mistakes (both offensively and defensively), and I find it tough to pass up on the chance of getting a stud pitcher.

QUOTE (wsgdf_2 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:22 PM) Even if that argument were true, then by your own logic Richard's arm has been babied and is now fragile and weak. It definitely wouldn't make sense to leave him out there for 120+ pitches now. Like I said earlier - the Sox have been very good at keeping their pitchers healty during the Ozzie/Cooper/Williams regime. They seem to know what they're doing. McDowell's just being a tool. One game isn't going to make a pitchers arm fall off unless it was already on the verge of falling off. My argument was moreso directed towards over a longer period of time. I should have made that clearer. Also, explain to me if my argument was false, why were pitchers a heck of a whole lot more durable even 10-15 years ago?

Ely has very quietly been having a very good year. IIRC, he had a really solid first half last year but struggled in the second half.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:04 PM) They couldn't touch the old futuresox, yet alone the new one now. I will admit half of me is biased as well. Actually nevermind.. looking at their site now.. not a chance. not a chance they are better?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:45 PM) It's 2009. You can't let pitch counts go up. Royals fans are upset Gil Meche went 130 one night and now he's on the DL. I hate it as well, but starters don't go as long as the past. There's the very legit argument stating that pitchers are actually more fragile now because their arms get weaker and not as conditioned because they are babied through the minors and their first couple years in the bigs. Hell, now the vast majority of pitchers get babied no matter how proven they are. In high school and college, pitchers throw a ton, and I personally believe that builds up arm strength. Unless you have very poor mechanics that are conducive to arm injuries, a well trained and conditioned pitchers arm should have no problem throwing 130 pitches every 5th or 6th day. But once you start limiting them to only 70 pitches per outing their first year in rookie ball, and so on, I believe thats when you lose arm strength.

August 1st... when the pain will begin! Oh man, I've never been more jacked up for football camp to begin than I am this year. I'm ready to f***ing bust some skulls!

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) He makes it sound like Ozzie is being a p**** and deliberately avoiding blame which I think is a pretty silly conclusion. Still, does that make him a dickhead? Considering McDowell has been around different managers and clubhouses before, he knows a thing or two more than us about the way coaches think. I'm not saying he's right, but he's not a dickhead for saying it how he sees it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:31 PM) Gonna be? Who is better now? I gotta say soxprospects (boston redsox site) is still the best team specific prospect site, but they've had a long head start, and futuresox keeps improving everyday.

QUOTE (SEALgep @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 09:19 PM) Passing the buck? Is he calling out Ozzie? What a dick head. He's a dickhead for calling out Ozzie? He's calling it as he sees it. You disagree with him, fine. But he I don't see how this makes him a dickhead. Many posters on here have called out Ozzie in the past, does that make them dickheads as well?

I have a feeling one of these days futuresox is gonna be the greatest team specific prospect site out there, and we're gonna have guys flying around, scouting each league, video taping players, etc. It'll take a while, but I see it happening.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 04:08 PM) So here's a sort of random thought... a name we aren't hearing much about is Logan Johnson. He was converted from OF to C for this year, he's at W-S now. He's got an .858 OPS. If his defense is half-decent at C, that's a pretty good offensive performance for a catcher. He's also 25 at High A so he is by no means a great prospect, but, if he could put up similar offensive numbers in AA later this year or next year, and be a good defensive C, I think he might be someone to keep an eye on as a potential backup to Flowers in a year or two. Anyone have any info on how is transition to C is going? I'm pretty sure he's played everywhere on the field, and perhaps he can develop into a super sub. Someone who can play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and C who is a decent hitter with pretty good OBP skills (he gets hit a TON).

QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) Some guy in Jim Callis' chat said the Sox and Boston discussed a Beckham for Buchholz trade, but didn't have a source and I can't find it anywhere so take it for what it's worth. I wouldn't trade Beckham for Buchholz, but I would certainly be willing to trade Ramirez for him if Boston was interested. I think Buchholz is a bit overrated, and I wouldn't trade Gordon for him... but I'd definitely be tempted to trade Alexei for him (if the BoSox would agree to the deal).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 05:47 PM) Duncan really fell off a cliff didn't he? I think Lugo can have a lot of success in the NL with the Cards. Good trade for them, depending on who the PTBNL is.

I would dance around my block naked if we signed Brian Goodwin. If we sign all the players mentioned above, I will go door to door of every poster's house on here, and provide any service they want me to do... while being naked.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 10:18 AM) Agreed. I wouldn't have gone ballistic on Ozzie if he had let Richard pitch the 9th (although I would've disagreed). But I trust that Ozzie knows his pitchers better than Black Jack. For all we know, Richard may have indicated to Ozzie that his arm was fatigued when he returned to the dugout. For all of the well-deserved criticism of Ozzie's handling of Anderson, his handling of young pitchers has been second-to-none. That's debatable. I'd argue that Black Jack knows a whole lot more about pitching and the pitchers arm than Ozzie knows. Afterall, McDowell is a former major league pitcher and is a true baseball guy who loves and studies the game. Not saying Ozzie doesn't know a lot about pitching, but he wouldn't know what a pitcher feels like in that situation last night. Now, as far as Clayton showing signs to Ozzie of him fatiguing, that's a different story. But I'll believe that when Ozzie and Richard say so, right now it would be pure speculation.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 07:36 AM) BearSox to thread I would have prefered to see "Cue BearSox", but that is good enough. Considering I have a former major league pitcher, and a pretty good one on my side, I think it's safe to say I win this argument

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) of course, it was a joke of course, I realized that... But still, Geoff can spell his name any freaking way he wants as long as he keeps getting those game winning hits against the cubs.

Should they, yes (if they get a good package). They still need a lot more help in the rotation, lineup, bullpen, and also the coaching staff. Will they, probably not.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 11:44 AM) You ask for a fancy gift, and all you get is a lousy utility play who can't even spell the name Jeff correctly. After 05 and all the game winning hits he's had against the cubs this year, he can spell his name with a "w" for all I care.