Texsox

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:34 PM) He's one of the wave of New World Order types, who at one time in the 80's labeled themselves realists, but as time went on and 9/11 happened, suddenly went off their rocker and wanted a holy war. Cheney is another one, though Cheney's transformation was even more extreme. What behavior have you seen from Rumsfeld that makes you believe he is "off his rocker"?

QUOTE (greasywheels121 @ May 18, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 18, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) Well why the f*** not? You will appreciate this... QUOTE (Texsox @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Awesome

Are you thinking something like The Chicago White Sox received: Keith Foulke, right-handed pitcher Bob Howry, right-handed pitcher Lorenzo Barcelo, right-handed pitcher Ken Vining, left-handed pitcher Mike Caruso, shortstop Brian Manning The San Francisco Giants received: Wilson Alvarez, left-handed pitcher Danny Darwin, right-handed pitcher Roberto Hernández, right-handed pitcher

QUOTE (BobDylan @ May 18, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) It is common courtesy to give them a piece of gum after they do the deed. Have you any manners? It is worse than garlic breath. Exactly, I gave shipps a piece

I really miss PA at times like this.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 05:25 PM) Interesting. Never got that impression from him, but in this case I'll defer. Not everyone who quotes the Bible is a born again, over the top, always ministering, Bible thumper, like me

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:04 PM) BUT HE DIDN'T! And THEREIN lies the problem. QUOTE (Reddy @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) but he's not using it as LITERATURE, but as a sacred religious text as a basis for military action! QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 03:01 PM) Tex, I think you are the only one going to the extremities on this one. CAPS EXCLAMATIONS!! I was just responding to his posts. I believe I responded directly, and point on, to his statements.

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ May 18, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) Come to think of it, I don't think he ever even asked to borrow it. typical from our government

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 17, 2009 -> 11:59 AM) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He hasn't been given these kinds of guys to work with. Its like asking a chef to go into McDonald's kitchen and making something gourmet. It was very interesting to hear Hawk and Stone talk about Cito Gaston and Gene Tenace yesterday. Cito has always been known as a hitting guru. They mentioned that they are very rare because they mention to their hitters actually trying to hit a home run. The White Sox have pretty much had power offense for a while now. I don't know why a lot of people think the home run is bad. I think the lowest homer totals they have had in the last 10 years or so was 2007, they lost 90 games, and this year they are a little behind in the HR dept. and look at their record. If they can't acquire high obp guys who can run, they have to hit homers to score. It was absolutely ridiculous to think this was going to be a good offensive team if guys like Dewayne Wise and Brent Lillibridge were leading off. Blaming Walker is ludicrous. It would be like firing Don Cooper if Mike MacDougal was the closer and he blew another game. So he is only able to help guys to hit more home runs? I believe that is what has been said. Guys come here and become better sluggers, but they never seem to raise their averages.

These labels really serve almost no use. A bunch of men, and it always seems to be men, are bound together in a war against another group of men. We change the label based on their size and if we agree or disagree with their aims and methods. Well, wait, scratch the methods. If we publicly disagree with their methods, we seem to privately use them as outside sources. Are we terrorists? Damn right. You would have to be the stupidest person on the planet to not feel terror if the US comes after you with our military.

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:51 PM) Me and the Prez own the same jacket. Too cool! Nice of you to let him wear it that day.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:56 PM) Go read Woodward's books. And Curveball. Then let us know if you still think that Rumsfeld wasn't a major guy promoting engineering the Iraq war. The previous post made it seem as if Rumssssfeld single handily did it based on his faith. And of course it was Rumsfeld's quotes from the Bible that had everyone lined up perfectly behind him. Once that Christian endorsement from the government was shown, Congress and everyone else just lined up like hogs to slaughter. I think people are giving just a little too much credit for this.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) but he's not using it as LITERATURE, but as a sacred religious text as a basis for military action! Not to be all over the map here but, IIRC Congress, the President, Colon Powell, CNN, Fox News, and a few others decided the basis for military action. Again, IIRC there was concerns about weapons of mass destruction, mass executions, and perhaps torture and mass killings. I must has missed where Rumsfeld used religious text as a basis for "military action!"

I guess I took Duke's comments as more universal than specific to Soxtalk. As a group, we are probably more aware than most.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:47 AM) Good lord Tex, you are all over the place with the slippery slopes and the straw men. Different posters have made different points with different points of view, for me to stay in one place I will have to ignore some posts. It's a simple point, he's quoting from literature. Not a big deal. And the initial post mentioned that we have to stop because that is why some people hate us. So I've pointed out several ways that that does not make a difference in some people hating us. Some people will allow him to quote from some works of literature, but not others. That would require a government sanctioned list of approved books that can be quoted from. Telling someone of faith to check their beliefs at the door, would be the same as telling the atheists to check their beliefs at the door.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:41 AM) Way to paint everyone in here as inferior to you. Anyway, good that this is ending, at least for now. I still wouldn't say its over, but, hopefully it is. I wish I had bookmarked it, but SS2k5 wrote a great post on just that topic albeit about Rwanda. We do tend to avoid brown on brown conflicts. Especially if they do not have any natural resources we need.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 18, 2009 -> 07:26 AM) How many people have died during a briefing? Anyone going to die from the plans being briefed? Should the government create an official list of books that they are allowed to quote from? If you do not believe in the religion, it is just literature he is quoting from. But perhaps we should have an official government list of authors that can be read and quoted from. The anti-religion people here are amazing. The two most evil forces in the world, religion and Scot Boras Y'all would have been very comfortable in the Soviet Union. Perhaps that is why they are so loved and we are so hated around the world.

God rest their souls.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 17, 2009 -> 10:27 PM) man this is so weird to me. like i said before, i'm not used to you being illogical - but what lost was saying is there's a time and place, and you don't agree with that? people should be able to say whatever the frick they want whenever they want to say it? without condemnation? is that what you're suggesting? I would suggest when people are dying, that is a good place and time for religion. Perhaps it would have been better if he just photocopied some of our currency instead. In God We Trust. Funny when we send US dollars to these countries, with In God We Trust emblazon across the face, they do not find that as a reason to hate us. My only wish is Rumsfeld invoked other religions as well in his memos. The Eastern religions especially have some great stuff on war and peace. Those that believe the country has now endorsed a religion, which one? Catholic, Lutheran, LDS, ??? When will we start shutting down the other Churches? GMAB. Like many of our rights, we are protected from the government stopping citizens from practicing their freely choosed religion. We did not write the Constitution to stop people from praying, we wrote that into the Constitution to ensure that we can continue to pray in the way that we want to. In all facets of life.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 17, 2009 -> 10:05 PM) What they're saying is that there's a time and a place for that, and an official military briefing probably isn't. Are they intolerable or tolerable to Rumsfeld quoting certain forms of literature? It's a simple question, with a simple answer. They are intolerable of him quoting religious works. They will allow him to quote other material, or even make other statements of his own, as long as they are not reflecting his religious views. And the reasoning behind it is because the Iraqis will hate us. The Iraqis would prefer if we were fighting an atheistic war against them, and not a holy war. Perhaps then they will stop fighting a jihad, or holy war, and instead they too will fight an atheistic war against us. Then, things will be so much better. We will fight this war as friends. It's late, I'm done.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 17, 2009 -> 09:40 PM) C. neither, choice between A and B is false Then again, I want to know how in the hell regular people have access to TS/SCI briefing slides even if the individual slides are unclassified. That's just... no. What some people here are stating is that Rumsfeld should not be allowed to quote religious material. That is intolerant to me. What would you call it?

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 17, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) Tex what are you talking about? I've been to hundreds of military briefings, the topic of religion (unless explicitly relevant to the subject at hand) is almost always entirely irrelevant. Religious intolerance? You're reaching hard. Stopping Rumsfeld from quoting material is . . . ? A. Religious tolerance B. Religious intolerance

During the cold war, did it make America feel better, and hate the Soviets less, that the Soviiets banned all religion? Why would it make a difference to the Iraqis?

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 17, 2009 -> 08:35 PM) The vast majority of what's been posted in this thread is far from the point. AHB and Heads about had it though. It gives the impression that this is a religion-based war which really just feeds into the terrorists' stereotypes. Stopping all religious comments feeds it even more. I do not see how saying, it is not just your religion we want to stop, we seek to stop all religion, is any better. At that point we begin promoting religious intolerance. That feeds the stereotypes.