JUGGERNAUT

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/sear...hp?ResourceID=5 Detailed analysis of The Treaty of Tripoli ... assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them. President Adams: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm John Adams, John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Quincy Adams, Charles Carroll, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Johnston, James Madison, James McHenry, Jedidiah Morse, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Rush, George Washington, Nelly Custis-Lewis, & James Wilson. Benjamin Franklin: “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech “In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787] In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone." Thomas Jefferson: “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.” "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.] It is ridiculous to suggest that ID portends to teach Genesis over Evolution. It does not. Evolution is a part of ID. All ID attempts to do is apply a purpose & meaning to the science that most of us can relate to. Genesis can be mentioned in regards to evolution in relation to the chronology of events. It's obvious to us today but it wasn't in centuries past. There are parallels that can add meaning to evolution for the non-secularist in us. You can either cling to the belief that a treaty between the USA and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary implied no mention of God in our public schools or you can read the Treaty of Paris as a clear reflection that God has a place in both our public & private lives. Comparing the two it's blatantly obvious the two documents are tailored to appease their participants.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomac...itian/paris.htm Paris Peace Treaty, Sept 3, 1783 In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch-treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America, to forget all past misunderstandings and differences that have unhappily interrupted the good correspondence and friendship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory intercourse , between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal advantages and mutual convenience as may promote and secure to both perpetual peace and harmony;

George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation:[City of New York, October 3, 1789] Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor, and Whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me "to "recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanks-giving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many single favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness." Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th. day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be. That we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks, for His kind care and protection of the People of this country previous to their becoming a Nation, for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of His Providence, which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war, for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed, for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted, for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge and in general for all the great and various favors which He hath been pleased to confer upon us. And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions, to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually, to render our national government a blessing to all the People, by constantly being a government of wise, just and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed, to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shown kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord. To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and Us, and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

It's NOT in the US Cons. The US Cons taken as a whole would favor the free exercise clause over the establishment clause. G. Washington was a devout Episcopalian; Benjamin Rush, Roger Sherman, and Thomas McKean were evangelicals.

TEST ON POLL ONLY. PLEASE REPLY IF YOU CAN.

http://www.10news.com/sports/4965882/detail.html The dreaded coin-flip. I stand corrected. It should be decided by H2H. By all you mean a 1 game playoff vs CWS, OAK, or NYY. It doesn't mention what would happen if it were to tie ANA or BOS for the ALWC. Where the game is played has no bearing on the countdown. First post updated. The poll was suppose to be locked to prevent reply's so that it could be treated strictly as a countdown thread. Seeing that's not the case it should be closed.

Some of you missed the context. I was not stating it's common knowledge that Democrats are Godless. It can be said that most fears rooted in politics are unfounded. But that doesn't change the realization of how such fears can impact the political landscape. This ruling certainly plays to Bush's favor in relation to those fears.

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/Brown_...res/darwin.html Darwin's God: nature is specifically designed with free will in mind. Though he mentions nothing of QT it's interesting to see how that central idea fits in natural science paradigms.

That is nothing new. His past decisions & writings reflect a staunch economic conservative & a traditionalist social conservative. I've read nothing that suggests he is anything but a religious conservative when it comes to religious liberty. His presence on the bench is likely to expand religious liberty on both public & private grounds.

Stepping away from the ideological debate for a minute, I can't help but marvel at the timeliness of this decision. What better time is there to drive Americans to fear the loss of their religious liberties at the hands of Godless democrats than the Roberts confirmation hearings? This will probably have little impact on Roberts becoming the next chief justice. It will have much greater impact on O Connor's replacement. Newdow & friends just handed Bush the ammunition he needs to nominate a religious conservative in O'Connor's stead.

The consensus of historical evidence strongly suggests that a balance was intended that would tilt to the free exercise part of the clause. The main concern was to prevent what was happening under British rule to non-Anglicans: 1)exclusion from groups 2) denial of rights pertaining to personal liberty 3) denial or rights pertaining to personal property. 4) prejudice in the work place 5) unfair taxation It serves no purpose for the common good to interpret the establishment & free exercise clause such that it is reasonable to censor speech or deny a right to assembly. This is mainly an idealogical debate. Should individual rights be so broadly defined such that they can deny peaceful assembly & expression of free speech? It is commonly accepted that the pledge, the Our Father, a moment of silence or mentioning God in the classroom to define purpose & meaning to science & mathematics are considered peaceful acts. It is commonly accepted that God represents, love, understanding, & knowledge. The majority of Americans believe there is room for the pledge, prayer, & God in the classroom.

I vote for the least cost approach.

It depends on the ALWC. If a tie in the ALC is worse than the ALWC then CWS host CLE in 1 game playoff. The extra game adds 1 to MN for 14. If a tie in the ALC is better than the ALWC then CWS wins div based on H2H (10-3). In that case the MN is 13. At present CLE is the ALWC so you can say the MN is 13 but subject to change

You are correct sir. It's $5M for Everett in 2006. His RON numbers are worth that much: http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batt...Type=2&type=reg RON RBI - Jurrasic slightly better than Kong.

The best news in this thread is that PK is seeking a 3-4 yr deal for 9-12M. PK is worth 33/3 + option yr to the White Sox. It's not just about his stats. With the departure of Lee, Magglio, & possibly Thomas Konerko is easily the most visible & marketable player on the White Sox. 33/3 + option is something the CWS can afford. As for Thomas I think it's way too early to count him out or count him in. 2005 105AB 3DB, 12HR, 26RBI, 16W, 31Ks 905OPS 2005 RON 42AB 2DB, 3HR, 17RBI, 10W, 17Ks 784OPS Thomas was a big lift because 65% of his RBI's were w RON & 53% of his R's (19) were w RON. The buyout is the smart move because Frank is now injury prone. In relation to the White Sox his value should be judged by Everett's. Everett 419AB, 51R, 16DB, 22HR, 80RBI, 36W, 85K's Everett RON 188AB, 40R, 10DB, 11HR, 69RBI, 22W, 85K's Everett will be making 7M in 2006. Thomas should be offered a 4M base + 6M in incentives dependant on R, RBI, & how often he creates a RISP from a RON.

http://riot.ieor.berkeley.edu/~baseball/american_league.html CWS 87-55 20gr BOS 84-59 19gr CLE 82-62 18gr LAA 81-62 19gr NYY 80-62 20gr OAK 80-63 19gr PRETENDERS remaining: MIN 74-69 19gr EN = 7 ELIMINATED from ALC: Peasants, Tiggers L10 projection: CWS 99-63 BOS 96-66 CLE 94-68 LAA 93-69 NYY 90-72 OAK 90-72 NO PREDICTIONS PLEASE. THIS IS JUST A COUNTDOWN THREAD.

Why I won't give to the Red Cross: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1029-05.htm http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/taintedblood/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/29/...ain516700.shtml Other help organizations assisting NO: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/...68/cpid/310.htm That environmental pc was priceless. A levee system equipped with flood gates that could have protected the city was pushed aside over 30 yrs ago to protect the shrimp. :rolly I wonder if that will make BBC News.

There are reasonable methods of giving a timeout. This is not one of them. The denial of abuse & neglect is not surprising. That's how the system works. Demonstrate that the criminals had no knowledge of what was right & wrong in the situation & hope the court will be leniant. Either that or shoot for an insanity plea. Perhaps the best sentence for these two would be a cell with similar dimensions to what they had built for their foster children. I imagine the tallest of their foster children could not move in such a cell. It would be a fitting sentence.

Actual Countdown to AL crown & ALC crown: NA EN:White Sox 87 55 20gr 17 EN: Red $ox 83 59 20gr 15 EN: Angels 81 61 20gr 14 EN: Yankee$ 80 62 20gr 13 EN: Athletics 79 63 19gr 15 EN: Indians 82 61 19gr 07 EN: Twinkies 73 69 20gr 00 EN: Tiggers ELIMINATED 00 EN: Peasants ELIMINATED This week's action: CWS (@KCR, @MIN) , BOS (@TOR, vOAK), CLE (vOAK, vKCR), NYY (@TAM, @TOR), ANA (@SEA, vDET) ANA has a fairly easy sched down the stretch (4 out of their next 20 vs contenders (OAK). We might be looking at ANA hosting CLE & the CWS hosting BOS. That wouldn't be so bad.

They had a special on PBS on Bin Laden. They say his genius arose when he linked America with Israel. He had tried & failed on numerous attempts to overthrow the ruling parties in Egypt & Saudi Arabia. When he failed in SA his rhetoric shifted to making America the snake head of the evil regimes. It's at that time Western ideaology was linked to the militant cause. The biggest eye opener was getting an understanding on how the sympathizers & new recruits view Bin Laden. He's a hero & an accomplished General in the field. He proved that in Afghanistan against the Russians. He gave up his positions of wealth & power in Saudi Arabia to lead this cause. In comparison the fat cats in the ruling class of SA are seen as lazy, misery, & against the people. I guess from a Western perspective he's their version of King Arthur. Another part of his genius they felt was linking the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as the main focus of their cause. Regardless of what good America does in the region as long as that conflict remains abrasive he cause will remain intact. They pointed out the Saudi's have no love for the Palestinians as they have very few immigrants from the region. They wrapped it up with a summation of the whole affair: Bin Laden & Al Queda will continue to link Israel & America together as imperialist demons of Western culture. If peace takes hold in Iraq then 10-20 yrs from now it will drastically change the political landscape of the region.

The pussification of posting really svcks. But I realize it's a neccessity. The new policy pretty much means that before you post look it over. If the style is anything BUT respectful or cordial of another member of SOXTALK or the WHITE SOX then edit it until it is. Uggh. I have a request. Can we create a RIVALS RANT section? A place where we can unleash our male angst on RIVAL teams. A place where we can bash our rivals endlessly. I realize there might be members from other teams here but can't we consider them trolls? Do we have to be respectful & cordial to trolls as well?

Palos vs Red $ox: 3-4, vs Yankee$: 3-3, vs Indians: 10-3, vs Halos: 4-3, vs A's: 2-7 AL Rs: BOS 794, NYY 743, OAK 670, CLE 667, CWS 651, LAA 637 AL HR: NYY 192, CWS 178, CLE 171, BOS 168, OAK 132, LAA 122 AL TB: BOS 2201, CLE 2147, NYY 2144, CWS 2015, OAK 1969, LAA 1952 ALRBI: BOS 751, NYY 710, CLE 642, OAK 639, CWS 627, LAA 607 RON (runners on) stats: AL BA: BOS 295, NYY 280, LAA 282, CWS 279, OAK 273, CLE 270 AL HR: NYY 90, BOS 82, CWS 71, CLE 62, OAK 60, LAA 52 ALOPS: BOS 850, NYY 809, CWS 785, CLE 762, OAK 769, LAA 755 CL&L stats: AL Rs: BOS 118, NYY 115, OAK 110, LAA 104, CLE 103, CWS 102 AL HR: CWS 29, BOS 24, CLE 24, NYY 21, LAA 20, OAK 19 AL TB: CWS 311, LAA 309, OAK 294, BOS 290, CLE 289, NYY 268 ALRBI: BOS 115, NYY 109, CWS 101, OAK 100, CLE 98, LAA 97 We all know the CWS will need to be at their best defensively to win. In a game where hits & R's are stingy the numbers favor the CWS. AL ERA: CWS 3.56, OAK 3.60, LAA 3.64, CLE 3.73, NYY 4.50, BOS 4.76 AL RON ERA: CWS 5.67, OAK 6.04, LAA 6.07, CLE 6.19, NYY 7.17, BOS 7.73 AL CL&L ERA: OAK 2.39, CLE 2.43, CWS 2.96, NYY 3.10, LAA 3.38, BOS 5.46 All season long the RON stat has been the best indicator of the CWS. As you can see we are by a considerable margin the most stingiest team defensively in RON. Offensively we are the 3rd best in the AL. OAK, CLE, & LAA trail significantly behind us. Why is RON so important to measuring the White Sox? Team speed. SB +/- LAA 138/51, CWS 124/92, NYY 70/112, CLE 58/94, BOS 39/78, OAK 29/98 + = team, - = opposition Look at how weak OAK is in being able to pressure a mistake. If the ALDS & ALCS prove to be CL&L games the White Sox should be headed to the World Series.

I have been instructed to ignore you. Good day.

You are arguing mid 90's vs mid's 2000's. They are apples & oranges. Al Queda's presence is at large in Iraq today. That's what we have to deal with. We are not without blame. Capitalism is not nice. We like to think of it as such but it's brutal. That's why during the rise of terrorist activity across the globe it comes as no surprise that America has been at the heart of some of the worst scandals the world has seen. Let's analyze Bin Laden's declaration of war from a more simpilified viewpoint: wealth : 10, force : 0, Zion : 17, oil : 9, women: 7, army : 10 Now let's look at the end since it reads like a prayer: My Muslim Brothers of The World: Your brothers in Palestine and in the land of the two Holy Places are calling upon your help and asking you to take part in fighting against the enemy --your enemy and their enemy-- the Americans and the Israelis. Our Lord, the people of the cross had come with their horses (soldiers) and occupied the land of the two Holy places. And the Zionist Jews fiddling as they wish with the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the route of the ascendance of the messenger of Allah. The use of the word Zion is clear in his rhetoric. It's pretty clear we were attacked & will continue to be attacked because of our support of Israel. If there is any hope for diplomacy it must first come from a peaceful co-existence of Israel & Palestine. Perhaps over time as the cultures merge that is possible.