Lemon_44

It's all a crapshoot. A manager is generally only as good as the players perform. Did Joe Torre, who had 1 first place finish in his first 15 years as a manager, become an infinitely better manager when he became the Yankees boss? Or were his players better? Is Ron Gardenhire a bad manager this year? I'm not saying those guys are bad candidates but I don't expect the Sox to be any better if Rios and Dunn are on the team and performing like they did this year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 3, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) I cannot believe I have just read this sentence. To get this straight: You blame Ozzie and his staff for those two nonperforming zillionaires? Ozzie gets the blame for Mr. Whiff and arguably the laziest player in baseball? Of course it's Ozzie's fault. If you can't see that you're a moron like the rest of us. The only way this team will ever be good again is they hire the like of Dave Martinez. He's a great manager in waiting. the fact that no one has has hires th sure fire HOF manger yet, is inconceivable. Don't hold the players accountable for sucking, it's OG's fault and that's it. If you post it enough times and the post are long enough, it's even more believable. Rick Hahn and Dave Martinez=====WS Champs 2012.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 05:02 PM) Ozzie's strength isn't in-game decision-making. It just isn't. For a while, I bought that he was at least a great motivator who would get the most out of his players. It was certainly easy to buy that line after 2005. But after the team and the players have generally underachieved ever since, especially in the last 3 years, what's left? What is he bringing to the table? I don't get it. Why not hold the players accountable for under-achieving. That's where the probelm is. In these days with so much money involved, I don't think a player is going to "play harder" for one manager versus another. Do you really think the Sox players are going to play noticeably different if a guy like Dave Martinez was managing?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 2, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) I've been saying this for years. He's basically a troll and people just need to ignore him. I've had him on ignore for a long time, but I'm still inundated with his insane bulls*** because people are constantly responding to him. Go argue with a brick wall and see if you can tell the difference. You won't. Kind of the same with you. If I don't agree with your thoughts, I'm wrong or have no common sense. I think I'd rather argue with a brick wall, at least I wouldn't have to listen to insults and bullcrap if I have a differing opinion.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 09:06 PM) Why would you PH for Lillibridge in the first place? He leads the entire team in HRs in August and rarely plays. Plus, he homered off of Nathan last time he faced him. And to top it off, he hit a HR earlier in the game. The fact that you don't get any of that and are still looking for a reason to PH for him makes it easier to understand why you back up Ozzie so often. Lillibridge is a fringe player at best. You're down 3 in the bottom of the 9th, it's desperation time. I have no problem sending up a left handed hitting HR threat, even if it's Dunn who has sucked all year. Why not take a chance with a guy who has averaged about 40 HR/year. There's 99% chance you're losing that game anyway. Everyone acts like the Sox win if Lillibrdge bats. It was a desperate act in desperate situation. It is really very insignificant who batted in that situation, the Sox were likely going to lose.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 04:06 PM) He's consistently putting Rios in the 4th spot. I can't stand Rios as much as anyone but I can see Ozzie's reasoning for not Viciedo 4th. Why put all the pressure on him and make him think he has to carry the team? I like him 5th. I'm with you and hate Rios 4th. If it were me, I would hit PK 4th and De Aza 3rd until CQ comes back.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 07:06 AM) The White Sox haven't played the game of baseball the correct way in years now, no freakin clue what team you're watching. And it's one thing to not be a great tactician but it's another thing to make moves that are just plain idiotic. Pinch hitting Adam Dunn in a key situation for Lilli and batting Rios 4th are literally some of the dumbest moves you'll ever see a manager make. Earl Weaver, considered by many one of the best mangers of all time, relied on ptching, defense, and sat back and waited for the 3 run homer. I don't agree with everything OG does but many people (not saying you) seem to think, no matter what Ozzie does is wrong. If he would have let Lillibridge bat and strike out, I'm sure some would have been saying Dunn should have been up there. I guess what I'm saying is most people just assume the best is going to happen if a situation was handled the way they think it should. If Dunn would have cracked a 3 run HR there, would people be giving Ozzie credit for a great move? I doubt it. The one thing OG has done pretty consistently is put a wining team out there. They may not win enough all the time, but he's not a guy like Eric Wedge who wins manager of the year one year and is fired within 2-3 years afterwards. In my mind, the 3 most consistent managers in the AL have been Scioscia, Gardenhire and Ozzie. Their teams, for the most part, are always in it. I don't count Francona and Girardi because, with that payroll, all they have to do is not mess things up.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 1, 2011 -> 04:27 AM) Greg, you have to admit Ozzie is a horrible tactician. This board could have made better decisions with the bullpen, pulling out starters, and putting in pinch hitters better than Ozzie. For the record, I do like Ozzie as a personality and as the "boss" in the clubhouse. If we get another Jerry Manuel or Gene Lamont next year I'll puke- so from that standpoint I really do like Ozzie. But until he gets a bench coach with a brain that he'll listen to or grow a brain himself I don't see how he'll make it much longer. Batting Rios in the 4 slot is just awful. Pinch hitting for Kittlebridge yesterday was even worse. Being a tactician is ,in my opinion, so overrated. The key part about being a manager is managing the clubhouse. Just because a guy can make a double switch doesn't mean he's a good manager. I think OG does a great job in the clubhouse. He keeps the heat off the players and let's them play the game. Other than some lapses by Rios, the team plays the game the right way. They just need to execute better.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 29, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) Anybody else remember the "Joba rules"? Yeah, I think Cashman tells people who to play. You really think Cashman was telling Joe Torre how to run his team? They may have had a consensus between the two but Cashman wasn't dictating anything. http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/the-joba-rules/

Too much is being read into Ozzie/KW and the roster. It's probably like most every other team. The GM supplies the players and lets the manager run the everyday team. I'm sure KW gets Ozzie's input in helping form the roster, like any GM would. The only problem I see is Ozzie being too loyal to veteran players who struggle. I can see giving them time to work it out but, at some point you have to try something new. It worked out well with Pierre but not so much with Dunn and Rios. I don't think Cashman and Epstein are telling Francona and Girardi who to play and who to bench. This season has stunk and everyone is looking for someone to blame. I blame the players for not palying to their capabilities.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 02:13 AM) Rios for Lowe. Do it now!! yeah, that

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 08:58 AM) The Pirates are in the race in the NL Central thanks to former Yankee farmhands.I don't know about thanks to them. Karstens and McCutcheon aren't the main reason they're batling for 1st even though Kartsen has had a nice year. I guess I shuld have said the for the greater % , Yankees traded prospects don't produce .

They just need to re-sign Danks and be done with it. When is the last time the Yankees traded a prospect who was any good? Their farm team used to be here in Columbus and their minor league players are always vastly overrated. I remember when Kevin Maas was the 2nd coming of Lou Gehrig and don't forget about the greatest power hitter since Babe Ruth, Steve Baboni.

Everyone talks about getting Brown. In the end, I think Quentin goes to the Braves for some minor league pitching, which does nothing to help the Sox win this year. The only way I trade Quentin is for a package(both Sox and Phils add players) with Brown and then acquire Aramis to play 3rd. You upgrade at 3rd, Viciedo and Ramirez more than make up for the lost offense and you get a top young player in Brown. Can Brown play CF?

I like Brown, but Quentin is the kind of player you build around not trade off. He's had his injury issues but he's playing a pretty solid RF and is a yearly 30 HR/ 100 RBI threat. Brown has a long way to go show half of what Q has shown. They say he's maturing and not so hard on himself anymore. The guy was going to be league MVP if he doesn't hurt himself two yeasr ago. If De Aza shows anything, you have a young OF of him, Q, and Viciedo for years to come. I wouldn't be mad if they traded and recived Brown but I'd rather keep Quentin.

Isn't it obvious who Kenny want from Philly? John Mayberry jr., he's from Stanford

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:27 PM) Please, go ahead and point me to a win that was due to Ozzie's great managing skillz.....I'll probably be waiting a while. Had Ozzie known his personnel and pulled Peavy after 5, Thornton wouldn't have been in the position to blow the game. I think 99.5% of the games are on the players. You don't what would have happened if Peavy was pulled. Maybe Humber comes in and gets torched too. I'm sure Peavy told them he was fine to go. I would think most manager's are going give a former Cy Young winner the benefit of the doubt and let him get back out there. I'll agree he probably should have had someone warming but there's still no way to tell what would have happened.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) That would be awesome, but can't see any of that happening sadly. I agree. I was just dreaming for a minute. It would be nice though. I guess it's not totally out the realm of possibility but very unlikely.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 11:20 PM) I am so sick of Ozzie Guillen. I wish I had the time, energy, and math to go back and figure out how many wins he's likely cost us. Losing to Verlander, regardless of how we've done against him in the past, softens the blow a bit but 4 ER off of him you are justified in hoping for a W. are you going to find the wins too. Or do the players get credit for the wins and Ozzie gets the blame for the losses. Thornton's horrible pitching to Betemit had as much as anything to do with the loss.

My youth movement: Quentin to Philly for Dominic Brown, Jax and Thornton to StL for Rasmus, Rios to Atl for Lowe(no youth but anything to get rid of Rios). New OF of Brown, Rasmus, Viciedo

QUOTE (FlySox87 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:55 PM) I don't know why you make that assumption. Do I know you? No, but you seem to complain about everything OG does. So I figured that was a pretty safe assumption.

QUOTE (FlySox87 @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 10:49 PM) More crappy managing by Ozzie. Had to go by the book, even though Crain was doing fine. Just brilliant. why do I have the feeling if he had left Crain in and Betemit singled, you would have been complaining that he didn't bring in Thornton?

Morel and Lilli for Aramis ??????????

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 26, 2011 -> 08:18 PM) I have a hard time believing Alex would be in the lineup tonight if they had plans of dumping him tomorrow, as you figure word would get back to him somehow someway and he'd dog it even more at least they don't have to worry about him getting hurt. He doesn't play hard enough for that to happen.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 10:50 PM) Well that's too bad because he's going to hit cleanup for the foreseeable future. I was laughing at the time but I don't think I've ever seen a manager call for intentional walk, going from righy/righty matchup to a righty/lefty when the lefty is the cleanup hitter.