Lemon_44

Don’t know why anybody would hate this trade. Sox are basically playing games where the opponent has 6 innings to score vs. 9 for the Sox. Nick Madrigal??? He’s a dime a dozen player. I think there’s a much better chance he never makes an all-star team than turns into a top 5 2b. No pop, sketchy defense, bad base runner, but can hit singles and people like to root for the little guy. This trade was a no-brainer. Kimbtel for 2 years will have a much greater impact than Madrigal over 5.

Isn’t Micker supposed to eventually by the RF? How far away is he? The Sox have shown they’re not afraid to put their youngsters out there.

The Sox always seem to have a bunch of pitching prospects and are good at developing them. I'd have no problem giving a top prospect, or two, for a guy like Machado.

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) Dan Szymborski of Fangraphs seems to think Avi will return to being a below replacement level player. If that is the industry-wide view, it seems the most the Sox would get for him is a bag of heavily used baseballs. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/winter-meet...ive-blog-day-3/ Not trying to be argumentative, but am curious as to how often those projections are close to being accurate?

QUOTE (cjgalloway @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 09:18 AM) Not surprising it doesn't make sense to you.. nice contribution to the thread. Keep up the good work.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 06:19 AM) Alright man time to get off the carousel. How many times do we need to read this exact quote from you? I don't know but how many times do I have to read about WAR being the be all, end all to a players value? I don't get the dismay with Garcia. I've seen people wanting Delmonico playing rather than Avi. That's just wrong. Delmonico will never approach a year like Garcia just had and is not near the plyer. I heard Carlos Pena last night talking about Ozuna and how teams need to let players develop because he was sent down to the minors a couple years ago, made adjustments, and now is the most coveted available trade chip out there. I also heard a GM, think it was Shapiro, talking about a prospect comparing to a current player on their roster. He mentioned how the prospect was in the minors, while at the same age, the other guy was already in the league. Everybody is high on Eloy, and rightfully so, but at his age in high A and AA, Avi was already playing in the bigs. Now that Avi seems to have figured things out.....trade him. Makes zero sense to me.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 26, 2017 -> 12:28 AM) You prospect people are incredible. When we finally get all prospects then we can start trading them for other prospects. The Sox organization is so bad it's been unable to do anything in a division full of clueless organizations, small market organizations (cept for Detroit which acted big for a while) since we won it all in 05. Sickening. Yeah it makes sense to dump our best hitter who could anchor our next WS contending team. Makes a lotta sense. Agree. I don't get the obsession to trade away the best players. I guess everybody wants play GM and it's fun to chat about, but that's it. I'm all for paying Abreu and Avi and build around those guys.

Wasn't Ichiro about 27 when he entered the league? Should we disregard his accomplishments too?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Sep 24, 2017 -> 01:32 AM) I'm not sold that Avi will generate enough lift to truly tap into his power potential. I hope I'm wrong but 30+ walks per year and less than 20HR's is just not impressive from the RF position. It's kinda moot anyway because even if Avi is on the Sox next year he will be moved from RF when Eloy is ready. Avi can't stop that runaway freight train. Eloy may turn out to be better and that would be great but he's 21 and in high A-AA. Avi was already playing at the MLB level at 21. I'm amused that people are constantly searching for flaws in Avi's game. First, it was he'd never hit. Then he was too slow. Now it's he'll not hit for enough power or walk enough. Why not enjoy the Sox lone All Star representative as we watch him grow into a potential top level player? Had he not missed time, we'd be looking at a line of about .330/20-25 HR/ 90+ RBI. I don't know about anyone else but I'd take that from any player and be ecstatic.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 05:39 PM) Blake is literally a kid a year removed from high school. Are you going to give him the same 7-8 years to develop like Avi has been given unquestionably? That's the thing with Avi. His development has pretty much come at the MLB for all of to see and everyone has formed an opinion based on that. I read numerous posts on prospects being young for a certain level of minor league play. Well, Avi was in the bigs at 21 and has finally seen things come together for him. Eloy, the next big thing, is 21 soon and just got to AA ball.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 09:24 AM) Now you guys have gone beyond where I feel qualified to make an assertion. This entire business of launch angles, and BABIP is a nuance, about which I claim no expertise. Please enlighten me, from an objective perspective, if that's possible. Just how realistic is it, for a guy who has demonstrated his ability to barrel up the ball, to alter his approach, in an attempt elevate his hits, and thus hit more home runs? Can it be significantly accomplished and at what expense? Isn't it logical that a player's batting average will suffer? There does not seem to be a consensus on this subject, at least not on this board. Haven't you figure it out? Advanced metrics has made everyone an expert. Players don't improve or make adjustments. That metrics say what they are, end of story.

My ideal lineup in about 2-3 years would have Eloy, Robert and Garcia as the starting OF. Anderson, Moncada, and Abreu in the IF. Rodon, Giolito, Kopech, Lopez in the rotation. If players stay on their projections, that's a top level team.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 01:54 AM) I've been saying all season that Avi will be a perennial all star the rest of his career and a future HOF inductee (maybe first ballot). If our rebuild is to be successful, we must sign him to a long term contract (unfortunately, the organization has probably cost itself 50-75 million by waiting til this point) I'm a huge Garcia fan but, while I hope you're right, that may be a little aggressive. I do think he's going to be a top player. As great as his numbers are right now, imagine what they could be if he didn't have that 3 week, or so, nosedive due to playing with that wrist injury. Of course, some are never going to be a fan of his and the first time he has any type of 3-5 game slump they'll be on here clamoring to get rid of him.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 05:47 AM) No, I am not suggesting that. Since we don't know what kind of contract, an extension would require, I was simply stating that I wouldn't advocate paying him the kind of money that Machado might receive, which could be 10 years, at $30 Million per season, or more. However, if it is something like 6 years, at $17 to $18 million, that seems very reasonable, in today's market for a guy, who is just beginning his prime. A 6 year deal would cover him from age 27 through 32. An extension for Avi should not look like a free agent contract. That is the point of extending a guy, rather than hiring a free agent. The advantage to Avi is that he would increase his earnings, over what arbitration would garner, until he reaches the point where he otherwise would have been a free agent. He would also have the security of a contract, which at the present time does not obligate his employer to anything more than year to year. And finally, he would still be young enough, at 33, to seek one big free agent deal, providing that he stays healthy and productive. Here is the larger point: Let's assume that you trade both Avi and Jose, for more prospects. Alright, now build the heart of the order; 3 through 6. We probably all agree that Jimenez has a really good shot to be a legitimate #3, or clean up hitter. OK, that's one. Who are the other 3 guys? Remember, I see much more value in Moncada being a Raines/Henderson type leadoff hitter, than hitting in the heart of the order. So, are you really confident that Burger, Robert, Rutherford, Sheets, Gillaspie and which ever additional such prospects, whom the Sox might acquire, will yield 3 more hitters like Avi and Jose? By contrast, retaining both of them, makes the task much easier. With Eloy added, they are only one bat short of a very productive middle of the order. Of course, you all know that I think it needs to be a LH bat. LOL. I don't see the logic in trading every prospect who becomes a Star, for more prospects. That seems like a formula for eternal hope, with no actual realization of the dream. At some point, you have to pay your producers. If the goal is to never have to award a decent contract, but rather trade away every productive asset, before he starts earning the big money, I think that represents an unrealistic challenge. The current roster has enough talent to be very competitive, once the youngsters arrive, providing that you keep a few of your already proven players. There are more than sufficient financial resources to accomplish that, with next year's projected modest payroll. Best post I've read on here in awhile. It's mind boggling to me that people want to/would even consider trading a 26 year old all star player hitting his prime and may lead that league in hitting. Like I've said in other posts, Avi is the exact type of guy you build around. I've read some projected lineups for next year with Avi traded and that AAA Gillapsie in the lineup and somehow that' supposed to be better for the Sox. A top 50 prospect fro Garcia, are you kidding me? It seems like Engel and Delmonico are seen as a brighter future for the Sox than Avi. Wow, just wow.

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 07:06 AM) Avi won me over. I went into the season wondering why he was still on the team, but he has clearly worked incredibly hard and has become one of the best hitters in the AL. Unfortunately, with his service window that means the best route is likely to trade him for a great return. I can see your strategy but don't buy that thinking at all. What is he 25/26? Extend him and build around him. He's not going to be too old when the Sox are ready to contend again. Unless the Sox aren't planning on winning within the next 7 years or so. Which I doubt. To me, he's the exact guy you extend.

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 10, 2017 -> 01:54 PM) He turned one of the worst farm systems in baseball to the best in under a year. He deserves the praise he gets. While also turning one the best pitching staffs in baseball into one of the worst.

I would have never traded Sale and think the return they got for him was abysmal so I expect a trade of Quintana and the return to be abysmal as well. I realize Moncada was/is a top 5 prospect but if the best pitcher in the AL, with a team friendly contract, can't get you an already established MLB outfielder like a Betts or Bradley, or even a Bennitendi then you failed in the trade and I expect the haul for Quintana to be disappointing as well.

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 04:27 PM) PS-- I know 5/ (60-70) is still a big financial risk for the Sox, but if they feel he is even close to this player, well, they just spent 50 million on a 19 year old they had really never seen. Avi sure seems to be a safer bet than that... Agreed and people were very excited about that signing. Garcia was already playing in the big leagues at 21. That should tell us about how highly regarded he was/is. He just had his "growing pains" for all of us to see and has seemingly started to realize his potential. With the inflated contracts in baseball these days, I think an extension of 5-6 years with yearly escalating salaries for a total value of 85-90 mill is not unreasonable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:08 PM) Avi Garcia can be a free agent at the end of 2019. Period. The Sox just don't have any control there. Well, they are going to have pay players at some point. You can try and extend him this off season. In fact, he's the exact type of guy they should extend, a top talent that is coming into his prime years.

Garcia just turned 26 years old. If he's not part of the rebuild, then they don't know what they are doing.

What's the obsession with people wanting to trade the team's best players? Anytime a player has success, there seems to be a thread about what the Sox could get for him from another team. How about this, keep your good players and build a winning team with them.

The stat geeks have ruined this site for me. Why not just sit back, relax, and enjoy the fact that he's having a tremendous season. Instead there's adjusted contact rate stats, ground ball average and peripherals. Why even play the games? Just use fangraphs, war, and any other made up stat to determine the winner through a computer. It seems like every thread deteriorates into a discussion about WAR, peripherals, fip, xfip, or some other random stat.

The Sox have a 25 year old starting to live up to his potential and there's talk of trading him??????????????? For a 30 year old????????????? I predicted Avi would do this last year. Guess I was off by a year. You don't trade guys that have gone through the growing pains and are starting to get it. My guess was if he was on the Astros, or some other team Quintana has been rumored with, most fans would say Avi has to be included in any deal with the numbers he's putting up this year.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Saw this on twitter. Derek Holland and Greg Holland = Dutch Brothers. I think I'm one of their Eskimo brothers.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:40 PM) That WAR is stupid because Jason Heyward was bad. WAR is used by way too many people as the supreme basis for a player's value. It's a made up stat. I like how Heyman b**** slapped BK over it. WAR is one stat of many that goes into player evaluation. Kevin Millar had an excellent take on WAR as well. Does McCutcheon get downgraded defensively because he's asked to play shallow and a ball gets hit over his head, thus decreasing his defensive WAR? It's all relative. Like Heyman said, Lou Whitaker has a higher WAR than Derek Jeter.