Lemon_44

I wasn't thrilled with the return for Sale but this makes up for it. Great trade for a rebuild.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:35 PM) I don't think there is any possible way that was going to happen. We could have gotten the Red Sox top 5 prospects and there would have still been people that preferred the certainty of Sale. I disagree. I'm concerned Hahn wasn't able to get even 1 MLB ready player for the best pitcher in the AL. Earlier in the thread it was reported that Hahn re-initiated talks with DD by saying the Sox we're wiling to "come off" the guys they had previously asked about. I don't get that approach. Moncada will probably be good but I would have liked a MLB player in there as well. That's not too much to ask for the best pitcher in the AL who's left handed and paid peanuts.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) Apparently our targets were Betts and Benintendi + in July, that's why no deal. Buster Olney ✔ @Buster_ESPN White Sox get a big haul from BOS -- and it's a step down for what they asked for in July, which included Betts and Benintendi. And a few months later, they get neither.

Ladies and gentlemen, here's your 2017 Chicago Knights.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeyman 52s52 seconds ago Chisox asked for benintendi, as everyone has (bos wants to keep). Chisox likes Jackie bradley Jr. Very much, and others QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) And it was also reported that they wouldn't give up Moncada. They wouldn't give up both in the same deal. Decent chance the White Sox got the guy they preferred. Maybe but that's not what was reported.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) I'm pretty sure that the return on this deal says that no player was off limits. It was reported the Sox wanted Bennitnedi.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Boston Sports Info ‏@bostonsportsinf 1h1 hour ago Chris Sale AL ranks since 2012 (min 100 GS) ERA - 1st WHIP - 1st CG - 1st SO - 1st OPS against - 1st alrighty then Exactly. Why Hahn let any team tell him any player was off limits surprises me. Hahn should have been the one dictating terms not the other way around. And that goes for any team.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Well, that's what you can do with a farm system with the #1, #5, #16, #30, and #67 prospects in baseball, per MLB.com. I believe all those guys except #30 (Groome) pre-dated his tenure. I hope it works out for the Sox(White) but I think when Sale is the target you acquired without touching your ML roster, you did a fantastic job. Especially when you had a top notch playoff team to start.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) So how about giving the credit to the guys who actually built up Boston's farm system? DD was handed plenty to work with. I'm not saying that. He didn't touch his major league roster and landed the best LH in the American League. That's a steal.

Dombrowski probably just wrapped up Executive of the Year Award. He gets a sure fire Cy Young candidate and doesn't give up one guy from his major league roster.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread. Yes, because that made up metric WAR means everything and is the be all, end all to all baseball conversations and who will/won't win.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:39 AM) Because the White Sox have been doing everything they can to win and still losing 80+ games a year for 4 years. It really is that simple. 100 losses doesn't scare me because "We think we're as good as anyone!!!!!!" has translated to 84 losses. 4th place is not substantially better than 5th. You cannot get less relevant than "worst TV ratings in baseball over the 2015-2016 period". The difference between 20000 and 17000 tickets sold per game really doesn't concern me, they're both still crap. I think removing Ventura is good for about 4-5 wins, a legit CF adds about 2-3 wins, a LH bat that actually produces at DH can add a coupe more W's, that puts you right in the thick of things. You get a couple bounces go your way during the season and 90+ wins is not unachievable by any means, especially if a C is also added. Trading Sale, Abreu, Q and anyone else with talent gets you 90+ wins, maybe , in 2021.

I agree, the Sox have the pitching staff to win and only need a couple pieces to compete for the pennant. Fangraphs and sabermetrics makes every fan think they're a scout. A rebuild with this staff is a stupid move to me. I see people lamenting past trade of Sox prospects but not one of them comes to mind who has an impact at the MLB level other than Gio Gonzalez and he's not a difference maker. Sale could get you multiple Cy Young's but Robles and Giollito are top 10 prospects who are 50/50, at best, to have an impact and people are okay with that trade. That's ridiculous to me.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) Isn't trading Sale etc. supposed to change that? I understand people would love to read how Keith Law raves about the White Sox minor leaguers, but it doesn't always translate to huge runs. Giving up good players with a lot of control for prospects is playing with fire. I haven't read through the entire thread but this is my thoughts exactly. It seems like everyone is in love with prospects over guys that can actually play. I still say the Sox are a CF, C, and LH DH from being able to won the Central. Trading away guys like Sale and Eaton are more than likely going to give disappointing returns in the long run.

Why is it far fetched to get Bregman and Springer for Sale. Bregman hasn't proven a thing at the MLB level and Springer isn't an untouchable superstar by any means. Sale is the top LH in the American, only 27, and tremendously underpaid. Those 2 are a starting point in my book. If Sale was on another team, people would be saying the Sox would have to offer Eaton, Anderson, and Rodon for starters.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 19, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) This has been asked a million times, but how do you expect to fill these holes? Money is tight, the free agent market is weak, and we have a bottom five farm system. They have to spend the money. Money is only tight because front office says so. They can spend it if they want to win. I agree, if they don't want to spend any money, trade everybody and field a AAA team.

I agree with Frazier. I know it's fun to play the prospect game and acquiring them in a trade but I think it's a bad decision to waste this pitching staff without trying to win again. Rodon, I think, takes a huge step next year and with him, Sale, and Q you'll have 3 of the top lefties in baseball. They need a CF, Cespedes(maybe) a catcher and LH bat. They are not that far away. Go through position by position- 3B-solid, SS- looks bright, 2B-I like Saladino, 1B-upper level, LF- solid, CF-gaping hole, RF- all-star level, C- hole, SP- upper level, RP-I not as down on Robertson as most and I like Jones. Burdi has some potential. They need to add an arm(not sure about Petricka status) but it's not a liability. I also think the removal of Ventura is a big plus.

It seems like the longer this thread has gone on, the more people are lowering their expectations on a Sale return. We're talking about possibly the best, most dominant LH in all of baseball at a bargain price. JBJ, Bennintendi, Kopech, Devers, is the minimum price for Sale. Rodriguez and Swihart added is a reasonable return.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 08:15 PM) So really, that pretty much means there would be a problem with just about any hire, unless it was some guy who was a farm director of another organization churning out talent. those guys generally don't move to the same job in other organizations. Getz did play here, but he has been trained by KC. Only a couple of years, so we will see. Obviously they liked the way he answered some questions. Personally, I don't know what to think. I am not at all familiar with his eye for talent and philosophy. I do think if he never played for the White Sox, and had the same experience, not as many would be dismayed. I also like that they hired a guy that has zero ties to any current minor leaguer. I do think that it is natural to give many players the benefit of the doubt they don't deserve when you have ties to them. I agree with this. Most of the complaining has to do with the fact that he's a former Sox player. I'm guessing many organizations are filled with former players throughout. Nobody really has any idea, or basis, to applaud or criticize the hire. The mentality is, ex-Sox player = bad hire. That's just not true and short-sighted.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 01:50 AM) No it wouldn't. He's already 29 and he'll be a FA after 2018 . That's 2 years. Any piece we get back needs to be the fulll 5/6 years of control. 4 minimum. I don't necessarily agree with that thinking. Are you saying you'd rather have a lesser player for 4 years than a top of line guy like McCutcheon for 2? Give me the better player for 2 years everyday. That's assuming it's someone like McCuctheon and not a 34-35 year old. 29 isn't old.

I trade Quintana and Melky to Boston for Benintendi, Moncada, Kopech. Trade Lawrie(he can be there new Utley) to the Dodgers for Puig. In a trade of contracts, Robertson to Colorado for CarGo. LF-Benintendi CF-Eaton RF-Puig 3b-Frazier SS-Anderson 2B-Moncada 1b-Abreu C-??? DH-CarGo Bench: Saladino, Leury, C, Coats/whoever SP-Sale, Rodon, Gonzalez, Fulmer/Kopech/whoever, Shields Bulpen: tbd, Jones closing

In my best Sublime voice: I don't practice Renteria, I ain't got no crystal ball If the Sox stay in house, they'll never win it all

Personally, I like KW and his try to win every year mentality. To me, that's what you should do. His biggest mistake was not getting along with, or coming to some kind of workable situation with Guillen. He let it become personal and that's started the downfall. As for his "bad" trades. The only one of significance I can think of is the Swisher trade. There may be some more that have slipped my mind but nothing of significance. I know there was a lot of much wasted hand-wringing over Daniel Hudson and Holmberg but those guys really did nothing.

I'm not sure Atlanta would do this trade because they are a mess right now and don't know if they have the "need" for Sale that some contenders do. Is this a fair trade? Sale to Atlanta for Freeman, Inciarte, and Tehran. That gives the Sox a young pitcher, a CF, and a left handed middle of the order bat. Inciarte-CF Eaton-RF Abreu-1b/DH Freeman-1b/DH Cabrera-LF Frazier-3B Anderson-SS Lawrie-2b Catcher Q Tehran Rodon Gonzales Fulmer/Shields

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 06:36 PM) You're going to pay Robertson elite closer money to set up...for a guy 25 other teams passed on? If Burdi was guaranteed elite, to be better even than Robertson, he should have gone in the top 3-5 picks. This idea of him just absolutely dominating from the get go like Jenks in 2005 is pretty far-fetched. 24 teams passed on Mike Trout too. If Burdi is better, then he should close. Not saying he's going to be better but using the fact that 25 teams passed on him is irrelevant.