Lemon_44

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 22, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) The player alone doesn't have that value. The player + the contract status is what makes it close. If I'm comparing the value of Trout and Quintana, yes Trout is clearly a better player, but with Quintana's deal, I have an extra $100 million to go play the free agent market with, and Quintana + that extra 6/$100 has a good chance of being close to as productive as Trout. Yes, there's a benefit to having a single guy who's that productive, so it's not 100% a perfect comp and I don't want anyone to take it as that, but there's also a benefit to being able to have extra money to spend on the FA market since you could also get lucky and find a guy like Morneau with some of that money who massively overplays his contract. The point ought to be that no, you wouldn't trade Trout for Quintana straight up, but that's about the level of deal you need to think about before you start considering moving Quintana. If you swap in Sale, or Trout, in the proposed deal, do you laugh at it? Do you laugh at a deal of Sale or Trout for Jay Bruce? It's hilarious and crazy. Jose Quintana in that deal is equally hilarious and crazy. Contract, or not, I think it's silly to put Quintana on par with Sale or Trout. There are no metrics that could convince me otherwise. I think their contracts bear that out as well. There is a reason Trout makes what he makes and Quintana makes what he makes. I'm not saying anything bad about Quintana, to me, he's just not as good as those other guys. Hypothetically, I would guess if all 4 were on the FA market, the order in size of contracts offered would be Trout, Sale, Bruce, Quintana. Maybe I am missing your point.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 22, 2014 -> 07:52 AM) Well there was a rumor out there that the Marlins offered 2/$20M, so I think you're pretty wrong here. One way or the other LaRoche was getting a 2 year deal in the mid $20Ms. If anything, the AAV of this deal is a bit less than I was expecting. Rumors are just that. Was that prior to giving Stanton 3 billion dollars? Plus that's just one team so it's not like there was a huge demand for him, if they wanted to sign him, I would have let them. To me, LaRoche is the final piece on a contending team, a guy that can come off the bench in a pinch a hopefully be productive. I don't think he's a guy you count on as a main weapon. At least not on a good team at his age.

Whatever happened to the James Shields speculation? I'll say the Sox sign him. I could also see Homer Bailey and Bruce coming to the Sox.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:23 PM) So this is sort of crazy. Mike Trout is owed $144 million through 2020. If he puts up 8.5 fWAR the next few years, which is roughly what he's done the last few (higher than the last 2 but lower than his first 2) he will put up $260 million worth of value at $5 million/fWAR (probably an underestimate but an ok one). The difference between what he would be paid and what he would produce, his excess value, is $116 million. Jose Quintana is owed $46 million through 2020. He put up 5.3 fWAR last year. If Jose Quintana puts up that same fWAR through 2020, he would be worth $159 million. The excess value Quintana Baswould produce is $113 million. Basically, if you assume the injury/collapse risk is about equal...Right now, Jose Quintana with his contract included should have about the same value as Mike Trout. This is not sarcastic. The excess value Quintana should produce is comparable to the excess value Mike Trout should produce through 2020. So if you would not trade Mike Trout and his contract for some player right now, you should not trade Quintana for that same player right now. Maybe if it's close and the guy is a better fit fine, but assume no injuries and no improvement from either and wow...Quintana + his contract is disturbingly close in value to Mike Trout + his contract. This just proves to me why I'm not a sabermetric guy and hate how they are used to justify players values because Trout is a much better baseball player than Quintana regardless of what those "metrics" say. Personally, I'd trade Quintana for Bruce tomorrow. I'd probably trade him for Mike Trout too

This is a nothing move to me. In fact, it's probably an over pay. They probably cold have waited until after the New Year and signed him for 1 year at about 7 mill. I just don't think there was a huge demand for a 35 year platoon DH/backup 1b.

I think people are way overrating Heyward. Earlier in the year Atlanta was not very happy with him. He hit 11 HR's and had an OPS of .735. He plays stellar defense but guys with those numbers are not going to cost "the farm". He's a good player but he's no superstar or untouchable by any means. He's a career .262 hitter and has had 1 year with more than 20 HR's. He's definitely attainable.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Oct 4, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) You do not Cargo on the Sox, you think you do but you don't. He's getting old, he's often injured and he can not hit away from Coors. Not to mention that he owed about $12 million annually till 2018. We just cleared all of our bad contracts, and now you want the team to acquire another one... Tisk Tisk. Getting old?????????? He's 28. Is Abreu getting old, he's 27. I'll take Gonzales through his late 20's and early 30's at 12 mill/year. I don't see how anyone could not want him. The injury risk could be the only factor giving anyone doubt.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 12:55 AM) Here are my grades for this season. I'll give the team a C-minus though I wouldn't argue with D. Abreu: A-plus. He had 36 HRS, 107 RBI. Everybody likey. Beckham: D. He stunk and his tenure was blah. (Sanchez in 27 games hit .247; Semien hit .233 in 63 games; both get Incompletes). The eye test tells me Semien will be a good player. Alexei: A. He hit .273 with 74 RBI. Gillaspie: B. I wouldn't argue B-plus. He hit .282 with 57 RBI in 130 games. Viciedo: D. He hit 21 homers and only drove in 58, barely hitting .230. He's an underachiever to date. Eaton: A. We all know he was great. A. Garcia: B to B-minus. Hit .250 in 45 games. Showed a lot of guts to come back so quickly. Flowers: C. Hit .240 with 15 homers. 50 RBIs. Paulie: I'd like to give him an incomplete as a favor to my idol. If I have to give a grade I'd give him a D. Dunn: 20 home runs in 360 at bats. That's not so horrendous. I'll give him a C this year. For his Sox career a big fat D. Moises Sierra, Danks and guys like that didn't play a lot. Not a big fan of that duo. Quintana: B. 3.32 ERA is fine. Sale: A-plus. He's good. Danks: C. He was 11-11? Not bad for an 89-loss team. I realize we don't care about wins and losses of pitchers anymore. Noesi: C. 8-11 record. Carroll: C-. Was 5-10 I love everything about him except his stuff. I'll give all the relievers a D except Petricka and Putnam who get Cs. And Bella of course gets an F. I can't bring myself to mention each guy. Robin: He gets a C. The team was a couple games over .500 at a fairly late date then sucked. I wouldn't argue C-. Hahn: C. He improved the team some but the team is still lousy and not a contender. Jerry Reinsdorf: D. No sense of urgency from the big guy. That's it for now. I think we have some good players. At this time, I'm really down on our bullpen and down on Viciedo. Soxtalk posters: C. I wouldn't argue B-. Still a reluctance to start new threads with people thinking a new thread is evil for some reason. People love the catchall threads more than new threads. Not a lot of activity on the baseball board. Lot of lurkers need to start posting more. The new posters were awesome this season. Of my own posting I'd give myself a B-. I put passion into my posts even if many of you despise me. Cheers to the White Sox. I lurk quite a bit but don't post that much. The reason is it seems too many threads turn into sabermetrics and I could care less about FIP, XFIP, WAR, UZR, etc. I pay attention to the basic BA,OBP, and OBPS for hitters and wins, K'S, ERA for pitchers. I'm not saying using those other advanced metrics are wrong but they aren't the be all, end all, some people make them out to be. I don't need metrics to tell me Adam Dunn was not any good. But that's just me. I don't disparage anyone for using them. I just tend to stray from those conversations. And, since most threads turns into that, I don't post very often.

QUOTE (wardo @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 02:49 AM) I'll take a shot at the opening day staff next season. 12 is the most likely number. Starting Rotation: Sale, Quintana, Noesi, Danks, Carroll or filler Bullpen: Petricka, Webb, Guerra, Surkamp, Leesman, Rienzo, Putnam and possibly an offseason addition or two. A couple of these guys could be in AAA if free agents are signed. I also doubt Rodon will be on the team to start the season. Just don't see them rushing him up like they did with Sale. Signed late and I think he's going to need more time in the minors. He will be called up at some point during the season but I doubt straight out of camp. If that is next year's starting rotation, Hahn should be looking to share an apartment with Kevin Towers because they should both be out of a job. They need to add a top 3 guy. There's been a lot of speculation on Shields but he's getting up there in age and there's not a lot on the FA market unless the Sox want to look at Masterson or Ervin Santana. I highly doubt they get into the market for Scherzer. It will be interesting to see who actually hits the market. There are some good options that have club/player options that we'll have to wait and see if they are exercised.

If you match up money, I'd rather have Kemp, Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/whoever, Wilkins, and one of their top prospects on the roster than Dunn, Konerko, and Beckham who are all 3 gone next year. I know he makes way too much money and is having a somewhat down year but his OBP, OPS, and OWAR would still be 5TH, 4th, and 5th on the Sox. That doesn't justify $20 mill/year but he can do much more, overall, than what Dunn/Konerko bring at 20+ mill combined. Plus, he's still young enough to have a couple bounce back productive years. I'm not saying it's the right move, it's just not a crippling move either.

With Floyd breaking his elbow, Atlanta has to be in the market for pitching. I would like to see the Sox make a run at Jason Heyward. He's pretty much settled in as about .260-.270 hitter with some power and is still only 24. A future OF of Heyward, Eaton, and Garcia would be a nice young group to build upon. Viciedo could move to DH next year and I think that'd be a solid lineup. Would Danks and DeAza be feasible for Heyward? Or am I overrating Heyward a bit? Danks is pitching well but I don't think the Sox are doing anything this year so why not shed his salary and build to next year. Danks seems like a good fit in Atlanta too. Plus, with Sale, Rodon(when he signs), and Quintana the Sox would have 3 good young LH arms.

Is there a player at any level struggling as bad as Walker?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 1, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) The guy he's traded for might be. LH power bat & RHSP. Make Alexei available to a contender that needs a SS badly and that's what you're targeting. Now may be a good time to buy low on Dominic Brown. He's young lefthanded and has some power. Besides, he couldn't be any worse than running DeAza out there everyday. I'm not saying Alexei in a deal for him but you may be able to get him cheap. He's still young enough to turn it around and a change of scenery could help.

I'd still traded Dunn at the deadline. I don't think he's in the Sox future plans. If Gillaspie continues to hit and assume the 3B position long term, Davidson could be switched to 1b, ala Konerko, and Abreu to DH. Of course, that's assuming Davidson comes out his season long swoon and starts playing like a top prospect again. Either way, to me, there's been too much bad Dunn over the years to let a good 2-3 month strecth in a contract year, change my overall opinion.

I'd like to know Wittman's track record of predicting where A level players end up. To me it sounds like a guy who wants to focus on the negative aspects of a player to make himself seem more of an expert. Maybe he does have some credibility but he could just as easily be another Todd McShay.Have you ever read the story on ESPN "draft guru", Tood McShay? He basically knew somebody that got him a job and ESPN told him that he was going to be their new draft expert because they were/are phasing Mel Kiper out. McShay had no NFL background at all. Yet, there he is telling us how he breaking tape on players and how NFL teams should draft.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 07:57 PM) CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 42m #whitesox Tim Anderson small frame but nice muscle build. Very athletic body; has some plus bat speed. Expanded zone first AB. Expand CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 41m #whitesox Courtney Hawkins took a 88 MPH FB middle middle for strike one. Swung and missed at 2 CHs away. Fell to a knee last swing. Expand CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 15m #whitesox Tim Anderson expanded zone again. Again against offspeed. First AB outside, 2nd: swung at 3 CBs down. Not sure he picked up spin. Expand CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 12m Routine play to Anderson; sloppy footwork, not particularly clean actions fielding; started rushing on transfer and lost it. E6. #whitesox Expand CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 5m Mental error by Anderson boy covering the bag on delayed steal. Teammates questioning him. Not a good start for Timmy. #whitesox Expand CJ Wittmann ‏@CJWittJr 4m #whitesox Hawkins front side flying way open early; chest is facing the pitcher by the time his barrel is coming through hitting zone. Expand At least he doesn't focus on the negative.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 07:05 PM) When you're intimidating opponents into your second game, it's good. I think it's more having Dunn hitting behind him. It's not too often managers iwalk the righty-righty matchup to get to a righty-lefty matchup. At this point in his career, Dunn should probably be sitting in the 7 or 8 hole.

Not even a question in my mind. You keep Viciedo and play him everyday. How come I get the feeling if Dayan was on KC, AZ, or some other team, many would be hoping he'd be a trade target for Hahn. He has a ton of upside and was really pretty good the second half of last year.

Can Lawrie play 2nd base? How about a 3-way trade involving SF, Sox, and Toronto. Sox send Viciedo to SF, Beckham to Toronto and receive Sandoval and Lawrie. There would be more parts involved but that would be the gist of it for the Sox. However, I would rather hold onto Viciedo and send De Aza to SF.

The Yanks need pitching and have a hole at 2nd. They also have a boat load of catching talent in their system. How about Santiago and Beckham for Gardner and Gary Sanchez, their #1 catching prospect? Of course, it's always buyer beware with the hype that usually accompanies Yankees prospects.

Thomas should be a first ballot HOF'er no doubt. You'll have some complain about his defense but you don't make the HOF based defense. A great SS or OF may get consideration because they were great defensively but you still have to put up the numbers on ofense. I know there's speculation about Piazza and PED's but has there ever been anything concrete? I don't remember him being named in any reports. Unless, it's a well know but un-reported fact, which I find hard to believe in these times, he should be in. You can't/shouldn't keep a guy out because you think he did something. There has to be proof, in my book, if you're going to keep someone out.

I don't think it's any strecth at all to think Garcia and Abreu put up better numbers than Konerko and Rios did last year. I'd be surprised if they didn't. If you can move De Aza (I've been hoping for a deal involving him to SF for Sandoval), I would be ok with signing Granderson. With the Sox pitching, I think adding a couple bats could lead to a very quick turnaround. Viciedo showed improvement during the 2nd half and that trend shoud continue and adding a guy like Sandoval puts 3B in order. Dunn is in a contract year and we pretty much know what we're getting with him, but if he can step up his numbers, even slightly, the Sox can be right there in the thick of things. Now, if you want to keep throwing a lineup out there with likes of Keppinger, Gillapsie, Beckham, Flowers, and two youngsters at SS and CF, then, yes, signing Granderson would be stupid. But that's also wasting the prime years of a good young, cost controlled pitching staff.

QUOTE (mike65 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) Hello. I was last here around the trade deadline because I thought the Cardinals had interest in Ramirez. Back then, everybody was talking about Adams and Martinez as the possible trade chips. Now, with that pressure off, I am assuming the Cardinals still have interest. I read the other day that the four teams the Cardinals are speaking to regarding a trade are the Diamondbacks, Angels, Rangers, and White Sox. I don't believe the Cardinals will go the free agent route. Peralta doesn't fit the "Cardinal way" and Drew's being LH is a problem for the Cadinals because our GM has already said he doesn't want to go anymore left than the team is right now (Adams, Taveras, Carpenter, and Jay). What do you guys think the cost would be these days as compared to July? I would like to see a trade of Ramirez and Jon Jay being the principals. I'd assume the Jays wold let Jay go with their top 5 CF propsect(name escapes me right now) waiting to take over. Tavares?

I don't think Viciedo is going anywhere. He's still too young to give up on him and he showed improvement the 2nd half. My guess is Santiago, Ramirez, Beckham, and De Aza. Of course, if they could unload him, I'm sure Dunn would be dealt.

Jim Geddes, only because he's my next door neighbor's dad.