witesoxfan

The starting OF would probably be Lee, Winn, Rowand, with Reed getting some time in AAA. And it's nothing to write home about. Lee, Winn, Rowand is mediocre at best, and could be worse then mediocre. And WH2, I can tell you exactly why you turn this deal down. You say you're not going to trade the main player in the deal. KW has publicly said(and several on here can quote KW on this) that he will NOT trade Maggs or Lee. Although I am shady on the details, I still think this deal is make-able mainly because of the Ray Durham deal(if you will allow me to go back that far). From what I understand, Durham was told he would remain with the White Sox, and very few days later, he was traded to Oakland for Adkins. Maggs was basically assured that he will not be dealt. Who says KW will not be an assface again and stab Maggs in the back and trade him? BTW, I have said I like the deal already. If made, I would be in favor of it. I just don't see it happening because I think KW does actually have a heart.

Heatwave up north. 15 degrees with little to no snow in the forecast. I think I'll go to the beach and get a tan

From what I've seen of you in your pictures, you don't look underweight. I don't think you should be too concerned.....but then again, I'm not a doctor either.

I hope I don't sound like a jackass in saying this, but from what I understood in the clip Tex posted, it kind of sounds like bulging discs and herniated disks are the same thing. Did I understand that correctly?

I do recall that Foulke blew it under pressure. IIRC, he blew a game in Seattle in the 2000 ALDS, he blew a pretty big game against the Yankees in 2002 that sent our season to the s***ter(that game was late May, Foulke tried to get a 2-inning save, gave up a GS to Giambi, we lost), and (fastforwarding from the point in time we are talking about)he blew a save in the ALDS this past year against Boston in Fenway that would have clinched the series for Oakland. However, you can't forget that Koch didn't help his own cause for having a reputation for blowing the big game when he gave up a 3-run homer to AJ Pierzynski in the 2002 ALDS in the top of the 9th in game 5 to give the Twins a 5-1 lead. He doesn't allow AJ to hit that homer, and maybe limits the hit to a double, the Twins only score 1, maybe 2 runs tops, go into the bottom of the 9th with a 4-1 lead, Ellis still hits the 3-run homer, game goes to extras, Oakland wins it in the 11th or something like that. That's total speculation right there, but is totally possible, so long as Koch does not allow the homer. So IMO, the pitching in clutch times evens out for both of them. And the stats still favored Foulke. And I still think that financially it is sometimes better to have a guy for a shorter time but maybe more money and then just don't resign him then it is to get someone else and pay them a little more the next year and then have the cycle continue. It has to end somewhere, does it not? Why not end it as soon as you can? That is my point. Anyways, I don't think this is going anywhere, so I think we'll just agree to disagree.

To get back to the original topic at hand... What in the hell would Seattle be thinking if they did that deal? I'll take it.

I personally liked the one where they tested to see if toothbrushes left in a bathroom and toothbrushes put in a that is sealed off from the bathroom would have parts of feces in them, and when they got the results, they found out that every toothbrush that was tested has fecial growth in it. Every toothbrush had fecial growth in it....the ones in the bathroom and the ones in the kitchen sealed off from the bathroom. Kinda makes you think twice about brushing your teeth because you know you're brushing your teeth with s***....but then you think you'd rather have s*** in your mouth then get gingivitis....or that's how I look at it anyway.

Dammit Steff, and I thought you had all the answers too!

Which is why I said possible. I honestly had no clue what the team thought or thinks of Frank. One second, it seems they love him, the next it is the opposite. Regardless, his on-and-off attitude which is on more then off(on being good for the team that is) is better then what Odalis Perez can say. I agree 100% with you Brando. Great minds think alike, eh???

I'll post an example, if the admin and mods don't mind. When do I get my shirt?

Just as a hypothetical question here What IF somehow some crazy-ass s*** occurred and the White Sox strung together 5 straight Central Division crowns, got to the Series two years and finally did win one, and this tradition of winning continued for the next 10 years, though not necessarily getting to the playoffs every year? Meanwhile, the Cubs turn into us, a bunch of underachieving clowns who constantly disappoint. Do we get these fans back, or is Chicago still a Cub town? BTW, just because these Cubs-fan parents are raising their kids as Cubs fans does not mean they'll be Cubs fans their whole life. I believe I've said it a few times on here before that I was brought up(from about the age of 4-8) as a Twins fan. Found out who this Frank Thomas guy was, and my love of the Sox blossomed from that. It's not entirely impossible for something like this to happen to thousands of kids and for that matter adults as well.

The only trade I am in favor of is Konerko to LA for Perez. Not Thomas. We save a million f***ing dollars dealing Thomas to LA.....$3 mill this year for Kong, and(hypothetically), we could save up to $8.5 mill in 05, and if Perez pitches well, we resign him and we have another good SP next year as well. I don't care what anyone says about Thomas's attitude and his selfishness. I know he was the only player in the AL Central to break 40 homers, and he was one of only two White Sox players to break 30 homers....I think Lee was the other when he came in at just 30(unless Everett did with both Texas and Chicago, and I don't think he did, as well as Maggs, and I think he ended up just short, though I could be sorely mistaken). He is the only legit 100 BB guy the Sox have, the only legit .950-1.000 OPS guy the Sox have, and, IMO, is the most dangerous hitter in the Sox lineup, not to mention he is only one of the best, if not THE best, hitter in White Sox history(I think he is, and I think many would agree);. For Odalis Perez, who had a s*** year in about the best pitcher's park in the majors? As I said, Konerko, yes....it is not a baseball move, it is a financial move. For Thomas, no....it's stupid as hell any way you look at it. Financially....we save $1 mill. Who says we don't lose that mill because of a s*** product on the field? Baseball wise.....Thomas should have been comeback player of the year(won by ELo, but what did he come back from? Anyways, I think Thomas finished 2nd in that), and had a very good year and actually did s*** in the clutch last year(unless you count September, and I do....then again, who did do anything in September? ). Odalis regressed majorly, and was flat out s***ty. Media wise....we trade a media trainwreck and a possible clubhouse cancer for, you guessed it, a media train and a clubhouse cancer. How does this move make sense? Or are the people on ESPN 1000 just using us as a toilet and giving us some s***? I think I'll take the latter(minus the s*** )

I'm scared s***less thinking about retaining Maggs....not that Maggs isn't a good player. However, am I the only one here who remembers what he did with Konerko when he there was money available? Gave him 3-years, $23.5 mill or so for 3 good, not great years. Konerko isn't even a star-type player who you can build a franchise around. He also gave Koch, a guy who was coming off the best year of his career, but had actually been only a solid closer all his career with decent, not great numbers, $10+ mill over 2 years. That brings me to my point. If we do in fact have money to spend(which we do), and KW really wants to retain Maggs....how much is Maggs going to get? $15 mill a year? More? (Hopefully) less? I hope Williams has learned from his mistakes and does not do something stupid like that and commit a ton of our payroll to one player. IMO, Maggs is worth $12 mill a year tops....and I would personally only give him $10 mill or so. Kind of like take it or leave it.

I'm glad we kept him, but I just don't think he is worth $5 mill. $3-4 mill, not $5. He is good in the clutch though, gotta like that.

Also has the 3rd best active career OPS(only Bonds and Helton are above him), which also means he has the best active career OPS for right-handed hitters. I believe he is just under 1.000 for his career, but I know it is borderline 1.000.

I hate to be rude, but.... thank you Captain Obvious

Because Shoeless Joe called Steff last night.

I still don't see how it makes sense financially. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the White Sox throw in some cash as well? I assume this is about $1 mill....which means we paid about $5.375 for Koch(if you count the mill we sent to Oakland) and the A's paid Foulke $6 mill....they are paying Foulke $0 this year while we are paying Koch $6 mill(with a few extra thousand in there as well). I don't understand how approximately $11.5 mill over 2 years makes sense financially over $6 mill for one year. And really, it did not make sense baseball wise either. Minor leaguers and prospects are like blind dates....some work out, but most do not. Meaning the main issue is Koch for Foulke. Does Koch for Foulke make sense at all? I thought so at the time, but in reality, had I looked at the stats and not just been hypnotized by Koch's "98 MPH" fastball, I would have looked at the situation while being objectional and would have seen that Foulke is by far the better pitcher then Koch. I still to do this day do not know why KW made the move. BTW, had we kept MJ, we would not have seen Miguel Olivo at the major league level. Had MJ been bad enough, he would have been given his slip to go try and make it somewhere else and Olivo would have been brought up. In the end it would have cost us $500,000.

You and I both hope for the best.

Yas, personally, I think the Koch deal is bad even if are looking at it right away. I'll admit that I liked it initially, but KW should have considered the whole thing. IMO, the only number he really needs to look at is the money for how long number, that is, how long will we have Koch, how long will we have Foulke. Foulke fell out of favor of management and therefore was traded....my thing is now, why not just stick with Foulke? Foulke can have one of the worst years of his career(maybe put up a 4.50 ERA) and Koch can win the Rolaids Relief award again....doesn't bother me. That happens, Foulke is gone, someone like Urbina is brought in, and we have our replacement right there. I know this is hindsight and all, but let's pretend that is is Thanksgiving of 2002, and we just hear about a Foulke for Koch deal becoming a possibility. You then ask yourself two questions....does it make sense financially(which it did not, because we have Foulke for only $6 mill guaranteed, Koch for more then that, but we're not sure how much)? Then the second thing is, does it make sense baseball wise? That's yes and no....Foulke had a better statistical year in ERA and K/9IP and WHIP, but Koch had the hardware of Rolaids award winner and featured a high 90s fastball....that's a tough choice, but something KW should have said thanks, but not thanks to. We don't get Cotts, but we also don't lose a decent backup catcher and a decent relief prospect(who is now with Cinci). As you say, it is hindsight, and not all would come true. Doesn't mean it ain't fun to speculate about what could've happened though.

I also like Rowand and Thomas as well. If we can include guys in the past who we'd like to have seen....I've heard nothing but great things of the Aparicio-Fox tandem up the middle. That would be something worth seeing.

I think I've seen that one in B&N. I'll probably check it out.

Me too. The main reason I hate the Cubs is because of their fans though. Arrogant jackasses. Speaking of that fun part, I don't think I had any more fun ever then watching their blowup in the NLCS. That was the most fun I've ever had watching baseball, bar none.

Probably not....you are right. s***, now I'm backtracking. Anyways, I think the thing I was pissed most about Manuel was how we looked like complete s*** in September....that quickly became a trademark of Manuel teams if they were in it. That alone was worth his firing. Also, the GM should take some of the fall for this as well(I figure I can get away with saying this because no one has caught it yet). He keeps Foulke and does not get Koch, we free up $6 mill this year(or we resign Foulke), we have some dough to spend, our pen problems aren't as bad, we never have to worry about Billy Koch, and the phrase Carl f***ing Crawford is never coined. Maybe the only negative is that Manuel is not only here this year, but he is given an extension. Hell, maybe s*** does happen for a reason.