witesoxfan

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 08:47 AM) Not if the Chiefs keep playing well, unless the Broncos go undefeated. I think they will

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 30, 2013 -> 08:12 PM) For what it's worth, his walk rate had already been cut in half after his promotion to AAA. This is among the reasons I'd like to see him get more MiLB seasoning because he really was just surviving in AAA (by his standards). He went from BB outnumbering Ks to an almost 2:1 K:BB in AAA and then didn't walk at all in MLB. Manto never said that - the example he had given in the interview that led to much of Soxtalk thinking that he hated walks was him giving a situation in which his hypothetical best hitter is up with a base open and man in scoring position. He said, in this case, he wants the guy trying to get a hit because a walk doesn't benefit the team. This is, of course, correct. There are some situations where you'd much rather have the guy at the plate take a shot on something he can hit than pass it on to the guy behind him. This is not correct. A hit leads more directly to a run, but if that guy doesn't get anything to hit, but swings away because he is trying to get a hit and ends up rolling over a slider, what does that do? The mantra should be "swing at good pitches, don't swing at bad pitches." There are certain situations where you will try and place a ball a certain way - hitting behind a runner, hitting a flyball - but you need to swing at good pitches. If you put hitters in the mindset that "I'd rather you get a hit with a runner on 2nd as opposed to taking a walk," then your hitters are more apt to swing at bad pitches trying to get hits. I get and understand what he means - you ALWAYS prefer a base hit over a walk - but it's just a terrible way of phrasing it. People wished that Thomas did that and they want Joey Votto to do more of that, but those guys have such an incredible grasp of the strike zone that they generally will only swing at pitches they can hit hard.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) If Adam Dunn is such a loser, what does that make Luke Appling? 2,422 baseball games without a single playoff appearance? His teams never won more than 86 games. And they dared to retire his number? It was obviously his fault those teams were never good. ARE YOU COMPARING ADAM DUNN TO LUKE APPLING? HOW DARE YOU!!!

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 11:59 PM) Dunn will make ... what, $15 million next season? He's played three years and had about 6 good months out of 18 baseball months. Not in shape. Doen't contribute in the field or on the bases. He's never been a winner anywhere he's played. Until he goes, I don't believe the Sox will be any better than an average team (and I know that would be an improvement over this season). This posts are inflammatory, discriminatory, and flat out ridiculous. You guys, just so you know, the White Sox won't have any better than an average team next year with Adam Dunn because "he's not a winner," not because "they have a bad team." So, guys, this is the White Sox lineup next year Trout - CF Mauer - C McCutchen - LF Cabrera - 1B Puig - RF Dunn - DH Machado - 3B Tulowitzki - SS Kipnis - 2B Kershaw Verlander Sale Felix Wainwright but you don't have to worry about them winning any games because Adam Dunn is in the lineup and he's not a winner, so that team won't be any better than average

Frankly, you have to worry about championship week. Those guys can play till the half and the Broncos will be up 2-3 TDs

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Oct 2, 2013 -> 02:30 AM) Danks ended the season nicely. .260 .341 .407 since July 31st. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot to start. Jordan Danks is nothing but a bench player.

All I want Rick Hahn to do is to make the Chicago White Sox a better team next year and going forward.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) Not to piss the stat guys off, Hunter Pence brings more than his actual production to the game. He is a hustler and a leader. One of my favorite players to watch and would have welcomed him gladly to our Sox. His contract is identical to the contract Torii Hunter got after 2008. The difference: that was five years ago and Hunter was two years older when he signed. Both were remarkably consistent prior to signing the contracts as well. Hunter played strong through the entirety of his contract and again, he was two years older than Pence is now. When all is said and done I doubt the Giants regret that contract. You aren't going to piss stats guys off. Pence was a really good hitter this year and he plays really good defense. There will be times he struggles with his average and his overall production will take a big hit as a result, but when he's hitting .280 or better, he's going to be a great player.

Good, then they draft Manny Machado with Kenny Lofton like speed. It gets even better.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 10:19 PM) Just how expensive will he be? $$ per year? Do you think $12 million per season?? Let's try closer to $18 million. Choo is a terrible fit for the Sox right now. He's a platoon player at this point and he's a poor defender anywhere he plays in the outfield. Ellsbury is a different story. He's a plus defender, has a well rounded skill set, and is entering his age 30 season. If you gave him 6/$120, he'd probably return surplus value for at least the first 4 years of the contract, and he has the skill set that will age well so it could legitimately be for all 6. If the Sox are willing and able to spend and get their guys - we'll say Ellsbury (6/$120), Abreu (7/$70), and McCann (4/$60), which is also $45 million added to the payroll, give or take how they set up the contracts - you can look at a lineup of Ellsbury - CF Semien - 2B Abreu - 1B McCann - C Dunn - DH Garcia - RF De Aza - LF Ramirez - SS Gillaspie - 3B That team at least gives a shot. That's not what I'd do, but it's an option and that team can absolutely be competitive.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 09:29 PM) Westbrook to miss first 4-6 weeks of the regular season. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/thunders-west...659--ncaab.html Durant is going to have to go HAM. The Thunder have, like, no scoring outside of him. Someone like Lamb's gonna have to step up.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 09:31 PM) Machado was drafted out of high school. That's OK. As a hitter player, that still sounds like Manny Machado.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 09:26 PM) You don't think there will be a market for any player with a bad contract with a severe discount. Given what Pence received from the Giants, I disagree. The only comparable situations I can think of in the last 10-15 years were both Blue Jays - Tony Batista and Alex Rios. Batista was coming off a two year stretch where he hit 72 homers and put up a .270/.318/.519/.837 and had a relatively lucrative deal for the time period coming up. He had a .611 OPS at the time he was let go to Baltimore and had only 2 more additional years remaining. Rios put up a .291/.337/.461/.798 line the year before he was let go on waivers for free to the White Sox, and was still putting up a .744 OPS at the time he was let go. He had 4 years remaining at $12 million per. Upton has one really good year to his credit, several OK years, and is coming off a .557 OPS. No, I don't think anybody is taking Upton and his $60 million remaining over the next 4 years. The Braves would have to eat a substantial amount of money for a team to take him on. Frankly, I wouldn't be terribly upset if the Sox were able to trade Danks for him because that pretty much evens out and there is upside there. I doubt the Braves would make it with their depth, but you never know. It'd be outlandish to take on $30 million to merely acquire a prospect. Yasiel Puig signed a $42 million deal, Yoenis Cespedes $36 mill. You are talking about giving 70% of the money for Yasiel Puig and 85% of the money for Cespedes to acquire a B level prospect. You can put your money towards that. If you don't get Abreu, there is another Cuban middle infielder available. There are free agents you can spend money on next year. There are about a million different ways to actually spend money more efficiently than $30 million for a B level prospect. EDIT: Oh, and Hunter Pence was really, really good this year. His WAR monetary value was $27.2 million this year and his career WAR value is $110.4 mill. It's more than I would have paid, so I think he was overpaid, but Sabean and the Giants felt he was worth it. It's not the worst contract out there.

I can't believe the Reds won 90 games with their outfield. It is soooo slow

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 07:13 PM) I'm not entirely sold on Trea just yet, but looking forward to seeing what he can do when healthy this coming season. 80 speed, good basestealing ability, and the ability to stay at SS is pretty substantial. The hit tool looks good too. He has a decent approach at the plate, and the power could show up more in the future. Hmm. I might have just talked myself into Trea Turner. I think the last college SS the Sox drafted must have left me a bit leery. That sounds like Manny Machado.

Votto has not looked like vintage Votto the past 3-4 weeks

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 09:00 PM) The price of a WAR is what $6-$7M ? Upton was roughly a 2 war player with Tampa. $30M is a bargain. Approximately $5 million. Upton was worth -$3 million last year. That is the player you are trading for, not the player from Tampa. Would you pay $30 million for Adam Dunn after his 2011 season? There's no point in asking that question because the answer is no. And THE WORST PART is that you are suggesting the White Sox eat $30 million for a prospect who will likely put up 0.0 WAR in the majors just to facilitate the trade of BJ Upton to another team. I could care less what Upton is doing, because you are saying the White Sox take on $30 million to pick up a B level prospect who will almost certainly never be a productive player in the major leagues, and you are defeating the purpose of trading for prospects by taking on money like that because, as was mentioned, you are losing your surplus value for a young player. It's not going to happen. This is a waste of time. You're arguing a flawed and terrible point just to argue a flawed and terrible point. You are listening to a terrible idea Dan Bernstein came up with that works in the NBA and that's about it.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 06:43 PM) Pitches thrown is better, but even that is not as straightforward as it seems. Back when I pitched, a 35+ pitch inning pretty much meant I was going to be useless for the rest of that start. I always compared it to weightlifting. 10 sets of 10 is not the same as 5 sets of 20 is not the same as 1 set of 100. I think we approach it the right way. We don't ignore the measurable stuff like game by game pitch counts and innings pitched, but there are subjective factors that play a big role as well. The end result is a pretty damn healthy staff and team. I would like to regress number of stressful innings (we'd ultimately define it multiple ways, but loosely 25 pitches in an inning) and significant pitching injuries. I think you will see far more correlation there than you will if comparing to innings pitched

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:52 PM) What does it buy you in 2016? I'd rather have a spot or two filled on the roster with a player in their mid-twenties with that money by the time we get to 2016. OK, then spend it in 2015. The Sox are going to go hard after Abreu and McCann this offseason, and perhaps Saltalamacchia. Maybe they sign a role player, a starting pitcher, they trade a starting pitcher, they trade other veterans, who knows. The one thing Hahn made quite clear last offseason is that he is going to spend money on the team efficiently. If something makes sense, the team will go for it. He's not giving out $19 million to Scott Linebrink.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:48 PM) Well a team did agree to pay him $75M based on his production through 2012. The Braves. There was a team that agreed to pay Adam Dunn $56 million for his production through 2010 too. In baseball, due to each player being their own monopoly, they have the ability to sell themselves to the highest bidder. Upton was worth $75 million to someone, Dunn was worth $56 million to someone. Given the numbers they put up in their first years with their teams, they'd get contracts of maybe $1-2 million with incentives. They aren't going to get $30 million and no one will pay $30 million for Upton right now.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:46 PM) What are the Sox going to do with that $30M over the next 2 years? Save it, maybe, but that doesn't help anything in 2014 & 2015. BECAUSE IT HELPS IN 2016 what the f***

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:44 PM) No, this is wrong. They'd rather sign a minor league free agent who put up a .700 OPS and can run than spend $30 million on a guy who was absolutely putrid all around last year in hopes that he can discover the form he showed 6 years ago for 1 season. N. Gregory Mankiw's 3rd Principle of Economics: People think at the margin - A rational decision-maker takes action if and only if the marginal benefit of the action exceeds the marginal cost. So, even worse than the original idea, you say some team will take on Upton for $30 million, the White Sox will eat $30 million, and the Braves will kick a prospect along, so then the White Sox really are spending $30 million entirely for the prospect.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:42 PM) I thought that was assumed as that's he only way the Sox pick up $30M. Anyway, given the price tag on Pence, I think teams might prefer to acquire a guy who had a bad year if it means they can get him at a severe discount through the Sox. No, this is wrong. They'd rather sign a minor league free agent who put up a .700 OPS and can run than spend $30 million on a guy who was absolutely putrid all around last year in hopes that he can discover the form he showed 6 years ago for 1 season.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 08:15 PM) It does not have to be a star prospect for it to work. Using Upton as the example the question should be, is the prospect(s) they were to receive in return for eating half of Upton's contract the best way to spend $30M in payroll over the next 2 seasons to improve the team long-term? Then why the hell would you do it? A team is saving $30 million, but you are taking on a prospect who MIGHT start for $30 million worth of s*** contract. It's a terrible idea in theory and practice. Teams have no problems giving up low level talent as throw ins in trades. Carlos Santana was a Dodgers farm hand, David Holmberg a White Sox farm hand. Teams also have no problem giving up marginal prospects for depth and minor upgrades. The Cubs got Arrietta and Strop for Scott f'ing Feldman. I mean, seriously, how is this ever a good idea on any facet?

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 1, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) It's going to be tough for them to win tonight. They don't have a game. Well I am sure they will play Madden or something, and they will be lucky to win. But yes, I meant tomorrow night