witesoxfan

FORGET IT HE'S ROLEN

Jose Bautista has raised his career OPS 110 points in his last 252 games.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) The Tigers will get Kuroda or someone similar that will be an upgrade over the back of their rotation. That is their biggest weakness. With Ordonez back they are hitting the ball really well and with hitters like Cabrera, Martinez, Peralta, Ordonez, Avila, Guillen and Joyce all healthy now they will blow the doors off the Sox. No, adding Rasmus will do very little for this team. They are not good at winning baseball games and Rasmus won't change that. They are not even a .500 team. I'm not saying trading for him is a bad move but the Sox should be eyeing next year and beyond. This is a garbage bunch of dogs they have this year. They are going nowhere - not even with a couple of moves. Ordonez is hitting .236/.305/.312/.616 on the year. I think he's starting to break down a bit. I don't quite understand how Peralta went from a .250 hitter to a .320 hitter, but, without doing much research, that some regression has to be due in the next couple of months. Carlos Guillen is an OK player at this point, but he's not that good defensively and he's still an all-out sprint away from getting hurt again. They also haven't had Joyce for a while, but do have Boesch. He is a pretty solid player. For whatever reason, you also assume that guys on the White Sox won't get it going. If they do, then they are a completely different team as well. I'm surely not counting on it, but it's always a possibility.

I have to think that if the Sox sell off pieces when they are 4.5 back, fans will revolt. There is nothing stopping you from dealing Quentin in the offseason if that's what the team so desires, but I don't see how they can deal him in season. Hopefully they go 5-1 this week and they sweep Detroit or they go 1-5 and get swept by Detroit. Knowing the nature of this team, they'll go 3-3, losing the series to Detroit but beating Boston, and Detroit will lose their Saturday game and the Sox will go into the trade deadline like 5 or 5.5 back which isn't far enough back to sell but isn't really close enough to buy either.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 07:59 AM) Adam Russell, Brandon Allen, Gio, Fields. That 2004 draft isn't looking like a terrible draft in hindsight, it meets the "3 serviceable big leaguer" goal I laid out previously, just got some guys in the upper rounds who took 5+ years to make it...and got traded away before they did. Russell is terrible, Fields got 15 minutes in 2007 and hasn't done anything since (and is now in Japan), and Brandon Allen has all of 196 PAs in the majors (with a strikeout rate of 34.7% at the MLB level). Gio is the only one who is serviceable and he's been much, much more than simply serviceable.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) That's what I'm worried about. We probably won't have to worry about that next year anyways, so that's OK in my book.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 03:03 AM) This clubhouse doesn't show any signs of rehabilitating players that are unhappy elsewhere. The Sox are the end of line for mental projects. The Oakland Raider of MLB. So you mean that AJ Pierzynski, Jermaine Dye, Bobby Jenks, Jose Contreras, Matt Thornton, Gavin Floyd, and Carlos Quentin all suck. I don't know if all of them were unhappy, but for whatever reasons, all of those players found struggles elsewhere and, through both the White Sox organization and the major league clubhouse, those players have found sustained success with the White Sox. Beyond that, I don't believe Rasmus is a "mental midget." I believe he has been completely thrown under the bus by Tony LaRussa and it is going to be impossible for him to get out of that. I'm hoping the Sox can make the best offer for him and get him, because he is an incredible talent who I believe would blossom with the White Sox.

QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:02 AM) How does acquiring Rasmus make this team better? Now, or in the future. Maybe it's just me, but Rasmus reminds me an awful lot of Rios, who I absolutely HATE. One good season does not a great player make. That's all he's had. One good season. His first season was MEH. This season is MEH. Have Sox fans not learned a f***ing thing about overpaying for flash in the pan players? What do you do with Rios, if you make this trade? Who sits? Adding Rasmus and keeping Rios does nothing to improve this team. Adding Rasmus only improves this team if he doesn't turn out to be Rios PART 2. I don't do this trade unless they want JUST Jackson. Thornton and Jackson? No, sorry. Get bent. The biggest problem with this team is the garbage player we have in CF right now. Get rid of him, somehow, anyhow, and we improve immediately. BRIAN ANDERSON would be an upgrade in CF right now. How pathetic is that? Colby Rasmus can, much more easily, be a 4-5 WAR player than can Alex Rios because he has tremendous power and pretty damn good speed. He has his struggles against left handed pitching, but adding more power from the left side of the plate is not a bad thing. I also think if he were to be traded, he would perform better simply by getting out of that clubhouse in St. Louis where he seems to be extremely unhappy.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:53 PM) My argument is not that I wouldn't trade Thornton. It's that I wouldn't trade both Jackson and Thornton. Not for a guy with question marks. It really depends on a ton of other information that we have no concept of knowing. Who all is interested? How highly do the Cardinals value both Jackson and Thornton? What do the Cardinals believe is full value for Colby Rasmus? I could ask questions all night, but the fact of the matter remains, Rasmus is still a very talented young CF who has put up very good numbers before, has had an absolute falling out with LaRussa, and could be acquired. The absolute most I give up is Jackson, Thornton, and a prospect. I start with Jackson/Thornton plus a prospect, and then concede Jackson and Thornton for Rasmus and a small minor league piece, and I adamently try to stay right there until I absolutely have to do something else.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) Linebrink's lowest WHIP over those "elite" years was 1.036. That would have been Thornton's 3rd best since he's been here. And you know damn well Nathan was a stud before injury. Of course he won't be the same. 27 year old Broxton has one off year this year and all of a sudden he's s***? Wilson only had one meh year which was 08 and was solid in 07 (albeit only 24 games), 09-11. The rest was more or less had a career year. Your right relievers are unpredictable (as if anyone didn't know that) but you know which guys are the true elite when they've had the better history of doing it (unless your an insane freak like Mariano which in one year [07] had that 1.121 WHIP year. Just terrible. Should of retired). Typically, the first thing a pitcher loses is velocity. Without velocity, Thornton is going to be extremely mediocre unless he reinvents himself with a good breaking pitch. I have no problem with this type of move because relievers ARE replaceable. I love Thornton and everything he's done, but I would rather see them save $5.5 mill the next two years and go with Hector Santiago or whoever else and bring in a guy who could (actually) roam CF for the next 3-5 years instead of that POS Rios.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) We do need him (against righties only), but we need him to be batting no higher than sixth. I'd prefer seventh cause I know it won't be eighth. Well that's too bad because he's going to hit cleanup for the foreseeable future.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) Matt has a 95 mph fastball in a mostly PED-free league coming from the left side. Check out guys like that....they usually pitch as long as they want to. Santiago throws it 94 and has a decent breaking pitch and Sale and Ohman work just fine in the bullpen anyways. As much as I like Matt Thornton, saving $5.5 mill over the next two years along with another million for the buyout (and another million for the rest of the season) would be nice. The only three prospects I don't give up right now are Viciedo, Reed, and Thompson. Otherwise, with maybe another exception here and there, pretty much anybody else is free game.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) Kei Igawa has to be up there, although technically not eaten. He is being paid $20 million over 5 years and his posting fee was $26 million. He is pitching in AAA and the Yankees have told him for a few years there is no way they will call him up, even tried to trade him back to Japan a couple of times and he refused, so for 16 pitiful outings, they shelled out $46 million. The current record for most money eaten by a team by releasing a contract is $33 million, which the Diamondbacks swallowed when they released pitcher Russ Ortiz in June of 2006. I completely forgot about Kei Igawa. What a name drop.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Jermaine Dye had the same numbers with the Sox as he did in KC, just a higher slugging percentage (which makes sense considering the home parks). Carlos Quentin was not a bust in Arizona as much as he had even more injury problems there than he's had here. Juan Uribe was statistically a better hitter with San Francisco and Colorado than he was with the Sox. I'm literally laughing at Frank Thomas & Jim Thome's names being brought up, and bringing up Alexei is just throwing a name out there since none of us ever saw him before he got here. Now, do you have any actual examples to defend your favorite hitting coach? Jermaine Dye was pretty much left for dead by most on here after he'd been terrible in 2003 (OPS+ of 38), was basically a lefty masher in 2004, and started off terrible in 2005. I will give Walker credit for Dye, deserved or not. Another player who really credited Walker with helping out his game was Crede. He was on pace to hit about 35 homers in 2006 with an OPS around .875 (he was at .884 on September 2nd) before his back flared up and he was absolutely terrible in September, and then he could never recover from that point forward. There are success stories, but I believe Walker has worn out his welcome with the Sox. He's been with the Sox for almost 10 years now as the MLB hitting coach, so simply getting another voice in there really can't do much harm.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 22, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) Lillibridge's stats are skewed because he had a few good games early. Nothing lately, while DeAza has played very well in AAA. Admitedly, I am still annoyed by his (Lilli) sleep walking play in Colorado, but it is also time to get over it, so I will. We can't send down our non performers (Dunn/Rios). On the surface, a Lillibridge/DeAza switch should not be significant, but the team is playing with such little pizzazz, maybe DeAza could provide some spark. Why shouldn't DeAza be rewarded? Sending down a player who can play 4-6 different positions, depending on how you view him at SS and 3B, who has a bit of pop in his bat and hustles his ass off sounds like the exact type of move that is going to spark a team to a division clinching run. Lillibridge is out of options anyways and he's too valuable as a member of the bench to be outrighted. He's not going to go anywhere.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 12:55 AM) Wow, Adam seems pretty damn defeated. Even if you really feel this way, don't let it be known. Or don't hint at it, at least. But I will say, as many others have, Dunn does care. Guys like Alex Rios and B.J. Upton are the ones that make me want to hurt small creatures. The dude has an absolutely great attitude. Billy Koch had a great attitude and he was terrible too, but there is atleast some respectability to that. Really, it makes you want the guy to succeed and to cheer for him even when failure is inevitable (yet again). But a guy like Rios, who it tends to seem just doesn't give a rat's ass about anything...even if he plays for your favorite team, you really don't care whether he succeeds or fails, and thus you are left with some sort of satisfaction no matter the result of their play. A guy like Dunn though...it breaks my baseball heart to see him struggle as badly as he has. There is absolutely no explanation for it at this point in time other than that goddamn appendix.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) With the salary committment this year and the inconsistent play...yeah, I bet KW cuts the cord if he's 7 back on July 28. I think BECAUSE of the salary commitment this year, you'd be crazy to think that Williams would sell off parts if they're 7 back on July 28th. There isn't a significant amount of money to be saved by trading away expiring contracts and money that can be saved next year can be just as easily dealt in the offseason. I think they are going to have to be about 6 games below .500, perhaps with Peavy injured again and another starter down to really get the ball rolling on it. I think they'll let this team give it one last hurrah, we'll see them stumble down the stretch like has become accustomed in the Ozzie era, and he'll end up in Florida next year (while hopefully taking his entire coaching staff, sans Cooper).

Dunn needs to hit the DL. Minimum 15 game trip, but it allows like 7-10 days to clear his head and completely forget about baseball (while still training) and then you get him 5 games against garbage in AAA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/heym...medium=facebook 48 hours before they actually announced the decision was the last day before the ASB and I'm sure executives, like players, take a day or two off to relax. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had the deal done and simply didn't want to complete the paperwork or something trivial like that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 01:44 AM) The Mariners traded Asdrubal Cabrera, a middle infielder batting .236 at Class AAA Tacoma, to Cleveland for veteran first baseman/DH Eduardo Perez on June 30, 2006. Perez offered little assistance to the M's attempt to win the AL West, batting .195 with one home run and 11 RBI in a half-season. Around 12:50 p.m. Monday, Cabrera waited back on an Anthony Swarzak changeup and whacked it into Target Field's right field bump-out for a three-run homer. This increased Cleveland's lead to 4-0 in what became a 5-2 victory for the first-place Indians. This increased Cabrera's totals to 17 home runs and 58 RBI in 380 at-bats. That is quite an upgrade in power for a 25-year-old who had 18 home runs and 166 RBI in four prior seasons and 1,415 at-bats for Cleveland. The moral of these tales is this: Seattle should never trade a shortstop to Cleveland -- particularly if he happens to wear No. 13 and come from Venezuela. (The other trade was of course Felix Fermin and Reggie Jefferson for Omar Vizquel 15 years earlier) As Twins followers try to convince themselves the Indians are not a factor, there's no better place to like Cleveland in a matchup than at shortstop, the most important fielding position on a diamond. The Twins have a shortstop who looks as if he learned the fundamentals at a baseball academy in Liechtenstein, not as a Gold Glove winner in the Japan League, and the Indians have the best shortstop in the American League. "Flat out, Cabrera has been our MVP,'' Cleveland manager Manny Acta said after Game 1 of the split doubleheader. "He has saved a lot of runs with his defense. We knew he would do that. What surprises everybody is his power." Patrick Reusse, Star Tribune Seattle nearly traded Carlos Guillen to Cleveland for Omar Vizquel as well but the trade was nixed for some reason I don't recall. He was eventually traded to Detroit for Ramon Santiago (who the Mariners released and the Tigers eventually resigned and used as a utility infielder). EDIT: link provided http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4112726.html Bavasi of course talked about a deal that was simply in the works but wasn't actually complete, always a true professional. It's amazing how much damage he did to that franchise.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 08:17 AM) Of course we want Quentin aroudn if we're contending this year (or Hell, next year). We're just a 2 game losing streak from pulling the plug on this year, and he's a guy other teams would want. 2 game? No way. I doubt they cut the cord if they are 7 back. Though difficult, they can make that up if they play pretty well down the stretch. But 5 in a row or something like 8 of 10? That would see a few players leaving. They'd almost certainly be around 9-12 games back then with anywhere from 3-8 fewer games to make that up. That takes them from having to play pretty well to having to play about .700 (or better) the rest of the way.

There is absolutely no reliever in baseball who is worth more than Dayan Viciedo, especially in the Sox position. Their bullpen has been good - they have a good overall lefty reliever in Sale, Thornton's been OK, Ohman has really been death on lefties, Santos is good, Crain is good, and Bruney is just fine for his role. I really don't see any spot in that bullpen that cries "huge weakness, must improve." The biggest problem with this team is the lack of offense. They really, really need to find some way to upgrade the offense because it's abundantly clear after 3 and a half months that this offense isn't working and that they need to figure out a way to get Viciedo up here and getting regular ABs. It's a testament to the health and durability of this team that they've only used 15 (and eventually 16 when Flowers gets in a game) position players all year, but it's also a flaw in their stubbornness as an organization to try something new as opposed to simply throwing the same s*** at the wall and seeing it fall right to the ground. Shake the team up just a bit, throw more s*** at the wall, and maybe something will eventually stick. In terms of Ozzie's bullpen usage, it is absolutely true that the Sox bullpen consistently throws among the fewest innings each year, but I also believe it to be true that he has a tendency to ride a horse or two for far too long and that has resulted in injuries and ineffectiveness for certain Sox pitchers during his tenure. The big ones I can think of right off the bat are Jenks, Linebrink, and Putz, but I think there have probably been others too...perhaps Thornton is also an example of that. That is something that should be and seems to have been avoided this year pretty well due to the depth of the pen.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 18, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) Yikes. We could be in sole possession of 4th place after tonight's action. Or they could always remain in sole possession of 3rd place, putting more distance between them and the 4th place team, who shall remain nameless, to solidify this as a 3 team race.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2011 -> 11:27 PM) Don't you dare say that Rowand!!! I remember when Joe Morgan and many others said the same thing in the middle of 2008 and it kind of fell to pieces in the 2nd half when Linebrink couldn't return to form after the injury. What really ruined that bullpen was Jenks getting hurt. It completely threw off the balance and rhythm of the bullpen with guys shifting to roles they weren't comfortable in cost them a few games down the stretch. I remember a game in Oakland that the Sox were up like 4-2 and Dotel gave up 4 runs without recording an out or something and they obviously ended up losing. Linebrink not coming back to form did not help matters.

I'd say Teahen is a long shot, but I wouldn't completely rule it out if the Sox took on some cash. The Pirates have gotten a .629 OPS at 3B this year and their best option has really been Brandon Wood, who has all of a .664 OPS (and .593 against RHP). Teahen is technically a downgrade overall at .656, but sort of works as a platoon partner at .698 against RHP, so there are worse options out there. On top of that, due to his versatility, he can contribute off the bench for them as well as in pinch hitting circumstances. That's about the only guy the Sox could really trade at this point outside of maybe Rios.