witesoxfan

What is it about De Aza that people find so fascinating? His career .765 OPS in the minors? Timo Perez's career OPS is almost 100 points higher than that, but I didn't see anyone clamoring for him to start when he was with the Sox. He'd make a good 4th outfielder, but I dread to see him anymore than that. He may make us miss Kotsay.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 08:01 PM) Name 10 better than Danks. After eight, I can't make legitimate claims for any being better than him. Sabathia, Lester, Price, Liriano, Lee (who appears is going to stay in the AL no matter what), Felix, Weaver, and Verlander. I'm assuming those are the 8 you got. If you consider the NL though too, I'm seeing Johnson, Wainwright, Lincecum, Halladay, Jimenez, Oswalt, Kershaw, Carpenter, Kuroda, and then Santana (due to health), Cain, Hanson, and Hamels are all arguably better than Danks too. I think it's fair to say that Danks isn't elite but instead just a step below.

Is your 3rd power arm Sale or Infante? I know you've advocated for Sale being in the bullpen in the past and I'm just not sure to whom you're referring. I don't necessarily think that Putz is a high priority - not nearly as important as I think Jones is - due mostly to his cost and the Sox talent in the bullpen, but I think having another proven arm for the back of the pen is a big deal. 2/$15 is probably a bit too high, especially if he is injured seriously enough this year that it hampers his ability to pitch next year and the Sox are in a Linebrink situation. I also think he's probably more valuable than Octavio Dotel was when the Sox signed him and probably just as safe, but also more injury prone, so perhaps 2/$12 would be more of his market value. They also don't have to break the bank on him, as there are other quality relievers on the market too. Either way, Putz has been worth everything the White Sox paid him, and if he's back, great, and if he's not, great.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 09:38 AM) Which one is straight? This one

I doubt teams will have to offer quite that much. Detroit handed out a dumb contract, and I think the rest of the league knows that. Williams signed Linebrink to a 4-year deal, but not every reliever that year signed to a 4-year deal. Personally, I think Putz is also a guy the Sox should lock up. He was great last year and this year you can guarantee him the closing gig. Offer him 2/$15 with an option - $6.5 mill in '11, $7.5 in '12, team option for $8.5 in '13 or a $1 mill buyout. Gets him more value per year (almost as much total as Benoit is getting), it's still fairly affordable, especially for a closer, and brings back a fantastic reliever.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 06:24 PM) That is the other part that scares me about letting someone walkaway and depending on the draft. We seem to scout other systems better than we scout draft picks in the 20's or higher. I'd also view it as playing to our strengths. If we had a history of draft and development that would be one thing, but we don't really. It has gotten better, but still not enough to bet a John Danks on. The best or notable White Sox picks of the decade (in the 1st or sandwich round) were Gordon Beckham, Aaron Rowand, Kip Wells, Gio Gonzalez, Josh Fields, and, like, Brian Anderson, so yeah, I think if the Sox continue to let other teams draft guys, that'd be just fine with me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 05:54 PM) And you can also bet that teams will line up with guys that will be worth more than two first round draft picks to get two years of Danks (at least). That you will also receive way before you get the draft picks who are almost certainly far more seasoned (and thus, far less likely to bust) than 2 draft picks. Legitimately, if Danks isn't interested in signing an extension, you should trade him. I would say you look for an outfielder with power, a pitcher, and then one additional player, be it a toolsy hitter or an arm that needs harnessing. You could potentially look for a catcher too, but it would have to be a damn good catching prospect.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 05:25 PM) 1.9-3.1, Danks walks about 1 more batter per start. Over 225 innings... 1.9 BB/9 = 47-48 walks 3.1 BB/9 = 77-78 walks You are talking about the difference of 30 base runners. If we assume that about 25% of baserunners score, that's 7-8 more runs per year that Danks will allow, and that's not including the increased chances opponents then have of hitting the ball out of the park. Beyond all of that, that includes Halladay's first 3 years in the majors where he was pretty terrible. Over the past 10 years, Halladay has walked 1.6 BB/9; past 6, it's 1.4; past 3 it's 1.3. 1.3 BB/9 over 225 innings is equal to 32-33 additional baserunners. They aren't similar at all. That's like saying the difference between a guy who hit .300 and one who hit .275 is only 15 hits, which is only 3 more hits a month, which is one more hit every 10 games. It's still a pretty big deal.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 05:20 PM) Yeah, now compare their walk rates. And those people who feel that Danks doesn't throw enough innings (he does), it's because of his control. Halladay has thrown 34 complete games over the past 4 years, which comprises more than 26.4% of his games started and that's simply because he's very efficient with his pitches and he gets a ton of ground balls which will in turn help eliminate any base runners that he's allowed through double plays. That's actually brings up another point...Danks isn't a flyball pitcher by any means, but he could induce more ground ball outs. In fact, there are a lot of things Danks could improve on. He is a great starting pitcher, he is very valuable to the Sox (and the rest of the league), but he is not elite. He may very well be the White Sox' best starting pitcher, but the other guys aren't far behind him either. If he won't sign an extension (and I have to imagine they are gauging his interest on that matter this offseason), then dealing him while the return is the highest makes sense.

When was the last time that there were three Caucasian halfbacks that played atleast semi-prominent roles in the NFL? Hillis is obviously a monster, Woodhead just scored again and has been a great player for New England, and Gerhart has been a pretty solid backup in Minnesota, even if he is backing up one of the best running backs in the league.

Gotta be happy about the way the Bills are playing. Part of me prefers the #1 pick, but you can't help but feel good when they're playing well (even if it is against s***ty teams)

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) So the good starting pitching plus Aubrey Huff/Juan Uribe/Pat Burrell/Cody Ross offense doesn't it for you? I don't mind an offense built around a merely solid lineup. You're forgetting the two biggest pieces of that lineup in Andres Torres and Buster Posey. The Giants also had the best defense in the majors, and the talent in that rotation is absolutely ridiculous. If you matched their 1-4 up with the Sox 1-4, the Giants would absolutely blow the Sox away. Their bullpen was also far superior as well. Point blank, if the Sox were to emulate the Giants, they are going to need Peavy to come back healthy and ready to pitch as well as Tim Lincecum, and then they'll need the rest of the rotation to pitch the best seasons of their careers, and then they'll need the bullpen to be lights out, and then they probably only need a hitter or two to be on the same playing field.

Whatever the causes may be, what separates Danks from others is Danks' "long" stretches of mediocrity. Every pitcher gets blown up from time to time, but most great pitchers will go through very good stretches of like 7-10 starts at a time at some point during the season. Danks hasn't been able to string them together over that long of a period of time. Danks actually only had 2 months last year with an ERA below 4. It's a rather pointless statistic providing the interpreter with meaningless cutoff dates, but it does help illustrate that Danks tends to be mediocre for stretches at a time. He also has a tendency to be blown up - he had 7 starts where he gave up 5 ER or more (and 2 where he gave up 8 ER). If he cuts the amount of runs in half of 2 of those starts, and ultimately ends up pitching an additional inning in both starts due to a smaller pitch count, his ERA ends up closer to 3.50 than 3.75, and it can get a hell of a lot lower from there. Great starters string the great performances together and follow them up with small chunks of mediocrity; Danks strings together "mediocre" (again, using the word in a relative sense) followed by small chunks of excellence. Danks really doesn't seem to have great stuff either. Solid fastball, good cutter for movement, change up for the change of pace, and then a show me curveball (that should be better)...he doesn't have the ridiculous movement that Felix gets, nor the velocity of Sabathia or Liriano, nor the control of Lee. I think there are physical limitations holding him back from being an ace, and quite frankly, there's not a whole lot he can do about that.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 21, 2010 -> 12:52 PM) Oh I think its safe to assume that Pierre's last year with the sox will be 2011. Any coincidence his and Ozzie's contract both expire after the 2011 season. Actually, yes, it's purely coincidental that Pierre's contract and Ozzie's contract run out during the same year. Juan Pierre signed a 5-year deal with the Dodgers after the 2006 season, and he played 3 full seasons there. Ozzie Guillen signed a 3-year contract extension after the 2007 season as a vote of confidence from management. Both Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams have had a fascination with Juan Pierre, so it makes sense that Williams would want to acquire him. The White Sox need to add long term ANY pieces, just like any organization does. In the best case scenario, every single position on the diamond would have a legitimate backup option to fall on in case an injury arises, and the White Sox are no difference; they just trade anything they deem as unnecessary. The White Sox are talking about adding Rasmus and Stanton and whoever else has been vaguely mentioned at one time or another because those players are good. I don't think Williams and company are really focused on whether Pierre is coming back but rather the fact that the White Sox need some help offensively.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 10:09 PM) Well, I agree with you, that he shouldn't be paid much and that he shouldn't pitch if we have all of the guys we have now. But what I was implying is that if we took him as a downgrade in the 5 slot, we might be able to trade a pitcher for a big bat, and end up better making the sacrifice. But, yeah someone like AZ or Milwaukee might sign him for $2.5m. I think there are pitchers with higher upside that you can look to acquire, be it through trade or signing, that are going to cost less than Duke. Resigning Garcia, while definitely not sexy, would be OK too simply because you know what you're going to get, and I think Tony Pena could be actually be a solid starter too.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 04:37 PM) I really wonder if there's a match to be had here between the Royals (Greinke) and D-Backs (Upton). KC is on Upton's no-trade list and I don't think Arizona is going to want a pitcher who is 2 years away from free agency and pretty expensive.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 09:50 PM) Would you prefer Brandon Hynick? Garrett Johnson? Those are our AAA pitchers. How is Zach Duke on a minor league contract not 30 times better than some replacement level scrub from Charlotte? Do you think we should just run the same team out as last year? Absolutely not and I've never implied that, but I don't think Zach Duke is going to have to settle for a minor league deal, and, quite frankly, he shouldn't have to with the abundance of organizations that lack starting pitching. I also really don't think that he'd come here even on a minor league deal because he's not likely to get a chance to pitch in the rotation, and he could very well not get a chance to pitch out of the bullpen either. I will say, without considering any of the current Sox minor leaguers nor any potential minor league free agent signings (and that could include Duke too if he signed here), the Sox currently have 7 players players on the major league roster that I would rather have start a game than Zach Duke. He's going to be expensive, relatively speaking, and I don't think that he really offers any upside whatsoever.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 07:02 PM) He's not due an arbitration raise if you sign him as a free agent though. Which just leaves him as terrible, which the Sox shouldn't invest in either.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 06:41 PM) What you'd get would be primarily salary relief and I don't have much faith in Sox brass ATM as far as how they'd spend that. Kenny would probably sign Bill Hall for a zillion dollars and then trade for Chone Figgins without sending a bad contract in return. Then he'd talk about how much better we'll be, and how much more versatile, and fifty cents, and all that good stuff. You mean like how Williams traded Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik and Luis Vizcaino to allot more funds to sign players, and then ended up signing Pierzynski, Iguchi, and El Duque? I'm sure there have been other bad ones, but the worst free agent signing (I can think of) that Williams has made was Scott Linebrink. He makes some dumb trades and then signs those guys to ill-advised extensions, such as Koch and Teahen, but I am really struggling to come up with any bad free agent signings he's made. Toby Hall didn't turn out well, but it was like $3 mill total. I also don't think the Mariners are going to trade Figgins at this point. I think they'll probably move him back to 3B and use Ackley at 2B.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2010 -> 10:16 AM) The reason he got DFA'd isn't because he's terrible, it's because he won't be worth his arbitration raise. If no one claims him we could get him on a minor league deal, or really cheap major league deal. Again, not ideal, but we have nothing but pure garbage in our AAA system, so a guy with not terrible MLB stats that can eat innings can be tremendously valuable at #5. Remember, we haven't resigned Freddy Garcia and we don't even know for sure if Peavy will pitch next season. We can move Pena or Sale in but we're already going to lose Jenks and we haven't resigned Putz. Can we even afford to lose the bullpen arms? Look, all I'm saying is that we're used to trying to put a good pitcher in all 5 starter slots, but you don't have to do that to win. And as badly as we need offense right now, I think putting someone who is reliable and has the ceiling of a decent #4 at the back of the rotation would open up our trade possibilities. All of a sudden we could trade Floyd or Jackson and not literally have a nameless scrub from AAA move in. Remember, we're not talking about trading for him, we're talking about bringing him in on a peanuts-salary for no cost in talent. No, the reasons Zach Duke got non-tendered were because he's terrible and because he's due an arbitration raise. He's a bad version of Mark Buehrle - his best years resemble Buehrle's mediocre seasons, and his worst years represent something that a player from AAA could offer. Outside of an 84 inning stint his rookie year, he's pretty much been garbage his entire career and I really doubt that any remaining Pirates fans will miss him.

and he was hurt for part of the year too

Yeah, Zach Duke is really not that good. The Sox would be better off going with Tony Pena as the 5th starter.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 10:39 PM) With Young, Span, Cuddyer, Kubel, Repko, and Ben Revere on the cusp, I kind of doubt they are going after an OF. Young and Cuddyer represent pretty much their only power from the right side of the plate. Beyond that, Cuddyer is a free agent after the season, Kubel really isn't a great player by any stretch of the imagination, Repko is 30, and Revere looks like he could be Denard Span at his best (which, while solid, isn't exactly someone you keep over Justin Upton). I'm not suggesting they're going to go out and trade for him or anything, but if they offer a package built around Gibson and Hicks, I think they have a chance. They would obviously need to include more, but they could certainly make a reasonable offer and they don't have world beaters in front of him.

If they're non-roster invites, I assume that means that they've already signed. Bruney has never been able to stay healthy, but he has a big arm. That's a good minor league signing and, depending on how many relievers Williams brings in, I would say that he has a legitimate chance at winning a spot in the bullpen.

Unless the Twins decided they wanted him