witesoxfan

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) This years Super Bowl halftime show: Black Eyed Peas That is going to make for a better halftime show than Tom f***ing Petty, that's for sure

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 03:55 PM) Players in their walk years tend to produce. That's a fallacy

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 01:53 PM) Interesting. Who else is exposed that my need to be added? There is a thread in FS with the list of Minor League FA candidates. Anyone know how these rules work? For the minor league FA's, do they need to be on the 40 to be protected? Are there players who are not FA eligible but still need to be on the 40? I'm about 99% sure that if you are going to be a minor league free agent and the team adds you to the 40-man roster, you lose your free agent rights. I'm also about 99% sure that there are players who are still probably 3 and 4 years removed from the draft (depending on their age) that haven't been added to the 40-man that will be eligible for the Rule V draft. I can't imagine that list has many big names on it at all.

Oh nevermind, this is pretty useless as it's just speculation by Morosi. The Sox are one of like 23 other teams who have interest in adding an outfielder or designated hitter, so naturally they'll be connected with Magglio even though they had a pretty ugly divorce.

Since we're starting threads on everybody that the Sox are supposedly interested in and may have talked to at one point or another, Jon Paul Morosi says the Sox plus like 23 other teams are interested in him. So the Sox are suddenly interested in Boras clients and tons of former Sox players, and everybody else on the planet. This already feels like an offseason where Williams and company have the smoke screen machine going in full force.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 09:48 AM) If we could move Floyd and Teahen/Linebrink for Ianetta and Stewart, I am in. Yeah, I love Floyd but I don't think there's any way you could turn that down. You have Ianetta for 2 seasons (and perhaps 3 if he doesn't turn down his option in 2013) and Stewart is under control for like 4-5 years, plus you end up freeing anywhere from $6-8 million. I'd also assume you could play Stewart anywhere from 3B to 1B to RF, depending on who or what the Sox want to do.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2010 -> 08:05 AM) Wite...I gotta say, if a GM is coming into a place like Arizona and thinking "I'm 3+ years away from competing", he's setting himself up for failure. Especially in that division, there's no reason why a team needs a 3 year rebuilding plan. Maybe not 3 years from competing, but 3 years from the ultimate goal. They don't have much pitching at all, which is why DiPito was trying to bring in as much as he could when he dealt Haren and Jackson. They used the likes of Bob Howry, Dontrelle Willis, Kris Benson, and Mike Hampton at different times throughout the year - Rodrigo Lopez was the only pitcher to throw 200 innings! If this were 2003, they'd have been in the playoffs. That organization still needs pitching in a bad way, and dealing Upton may be a great way to bring in some big arms.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2010 -> 10:14 AM) I would argue the opposite. Ozzie played him perfectly. He rode him while he was hot, benched him when he was cold, and used him around the OF to give guys days off when they needed them. Jones didn't cool when he hit the bench, he hit the bench when he cooled off. Teams figured him out, and Andruw didn't adjust. QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 18, 2010 -> 10:45 AM) I am one of the biggest Ozzie haters around, but even I can agree that he used Jones perfectly. I agree completely too. Maybe the biggest reason I want Jones back is because I get satisfaction when I see Ozzie actually use a guy properly when he has miscast so many others so badly in the past.

just for kicks and jigs, here's how Upton compares to Andruw Jones (again, just offensively...Andruw brought other added value, like the fact that he arguably the greatest defensive CFer of all time) Justin Upton 19 - .221/.283/.364/.647 62 OPS+ 20 - .250/.353/.463/.816 106 OPS+ 21 - .300/.366/.532/.899 129 OPS+ 22 - .273/.356/.442/.799 111 OPS+ Andruw Jones 19 - .217/.265/.443/.709 79 OPS+ 20 - .231/.329/.416/.745 93 OPS+ 21 - .271/.321/.515/.836 116 OPS+ 22 - .275/.365/.483/.848 113 OPS+ I would say that Upton grades out better than Jones does offensively, and Jones was a 30-40 homer a year guy. Upton also compares well with Jose Canseco, and if he could be the hitter Canseco was without doing steroids, that would be worth a huge package as well. Upton is being marketed as an .850-.900 OPS type hitter at age 23 who has the ability to improve beyond that into a potential MVP candidate through growth, maturity as a hitter, and proper development. I doubt that he ever actually gets to that point unless he can begin to make more contact , but he's still incredibly valuable. I'm not positive it was discussed...I didn't read through your guys' whole conversation, only bits and pieces...but it's possible that Towers is shopping him not because he necessarily wants to deal him or thinks that there is something mechanically wrong with his swing but instead because he realizes that he's an incredibly valuable property, Arizona could be as many as 3 years away from fielding a competitive team, and thinks that he could jumpstart his rebuilding process by dealing away Upton for a solid package of prospects. He might view Upton as a 4 WAR player, but if he can get three 2.5 WAR players who are even cheaper, he's going to do it. The reason Danks is not as attractive as Upton is because of the Edwin Jackson argument. He's probably a more valuable player at this point in their careers, but he's 2 years away from free agency instead of 5, and he's more expensive in the short run too - Danks will probably make anywhere between $16-20 million in the next two years, while Upton is going to cost $20.75 in the next 3, and then Upton is signed 2 years beyond that. Maybe some team bites. I don't see it happening, but it's certainly possible.

RHB vs RHP - .270/.335/.455/.791 RHB vs LHP - .262/.336/.465/.801 LHB vs RHP - .272/.326/.368/.694 LHB vs LHP - .242/.318/.286/.604 as RHB - .268/.336/.458/.794 as LHB - .267/.325/.354/.679 The splits are thrown off by the fact that the White Sox had terrible left handed hitters (Pierzynski and Teahen were the Sox two most dangerous left handed bats, putting up OPS's of .688 and .709 respectively). If the Sox had a really good left handed bat in the middle of the lineup, that differential would be even more significantly different, which is a good thing. I agree that the Sox need more good hitters period, but right now you are looking at a hole and trying to get rid of it by cutting it out, which in the end only leaves you with a bigger hole. The Sox need a left handed bat in the middle of the lineup, and they need a right handed bat in the middle of the lineup too. They need hitters...pretty much every team does. (btw, for funsies, here was Kotsay's line against LHP - .000/.074/.000/.074 in 27 PAs)

Ken Griffey Jr 19 - .264/.329/.420/.748 108 OPS+ 20 - .300/.366/.481/.847 135 OPS+ 21 - .327/.399/.527/.926 155 OPS+ 22 - .308/.361/.535/.896 149 OPS+ Justin Upton 19 - .221/.283/.364/.647 62 OPS+ 20 - .250/.353/.463/.816 106 OPS+ 21 - .300/.366/.532/.899 129 OPS+ 22 - .273/.356/.442/.799 111 OPS+ He's obviously not quite Griffey, but Griffey was also one of the best of all time. I would say he appears to be one solid step below Griffey, but it's not like that would be mediocre. He's still very young and he's established himself as a good hitter already who could still end up being phenomenal. There's a ton of value in that. He hasn't even gotten close to entering his prime years yet. I don't think Upton will be dealt. Towers is waiting for a package that is going to blow him away, and I don't think anyone is going to provide that. The team that probably has the best chance to acquire him would be Kansas City...we'll see whether or not Moore even wants to go there. (FWIW, I really don't think Clay Buccholz would be a huge get. I think he's probably a solid #2 this year, but his ERA should have been higher this year. If anything, this year was more of a correction in his career stats between his previous 2 seasons where he gave up a ton of homers while still striking people out. He's good, but he's not nearly as valuable as Justin Upton)

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 18, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) So potential packages being thrown around (guessed at right now) are: Jacoby Ellsbury and Daniel Bard from the Red Sox Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco from the Marlins 4-5 prospects If those deals can do it then the Sox are in this if they want to be. The Diamondbacks would hang up the phone for either one of those proposed deals, especially Ellsbury and Bard. That's ridiculous. Someone on FanGraphs suggested something along the lines of Buchholz, Doubront, Kalish, and Iglesias for Upton, which is closer to what they would be looking for and still might come up short.

Don Cooper is on record as saying that he would prefer Sale to pitch out of the bullpen this year and to slowly begin to stretch his arm out. Honestly, I don't care either way. The Sox could throw him in the bullpen for this year, or they could have him starting in AAA (on the Aroldis plan) and I could care less.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 11:01 PM) Granderson has a .621 OPS against LHP in his career. That's platoon-level bad. Yeah, it's really bad, but if the Sox could bring back Andruw, it'd be fine by me. Honestly, a lot of people really didn't like what Jones did this year, but I think priority #1 should be bringing him back. The Sox have struggled against lefties in the past, and having the ability to put him in the lineup against lefties has actually given the Sox a chance in games they normally got crushed in (the game that pops into mind is a game against Liriano in Minnesota where the Sox went down like 2-0 or something and Jones hit a 3-run homer).

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 11:04 PM) Nope, but I'm sure it won't stop the ridiculous trade proposals we'll see on here. Gavin Floyd, Scott Linebrink, and Eduardo Escobar for Hanley Ramirez

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 10:57 PM) Heyman reporting that the asking price for Upton has been described as "ridiculous". is that really surprising?

USD beat Minnesota Minnesota beat Illinois therefore, USD >> Illinois

QUOTE (T R U @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 04:10 AM) Yes there is a reason Thigpen was the 3rd QB.. Henne was a 2nd round pick who needed to be given the reigns and Pennington wasn't going to be 3rd.. Had Penny not come back, Thigpen would have been 2nd string.. besides, its not like Henne had been lighting it up this year I don't see Thigpens play being too far off from what we've gotten from the QB position anyways.. he looked pretty good in his limited play against Tennessee.. Having not seen them play, I can't argue much here. I can say that I'm pretty sure that Miami is running far more often then they are passing in the red zone, which would lead to Henne's passer rating decreasing because he's never throwing touchdowns. I think Henne is a far superior QB to Thigpen. Miami has only beaten one team by more than 2 scores - this past week against Tennessee - and, as mentioned above, they've played Buffalo, Minnesota, and Cincinnati. Those are 3 pretty terrible teams to, as you called it, be "eeking" wins. Meanwhile, the Bears have only lost one game by 2 scores - the Giants game where Cutler basically died - and in those "bad" losses (they are mediocre teams...not good, not bad, just mediocre) to the Seahawks and Redskins by 3 points each. I don't think you can use that argument for Miami either. If the Bears are as bad as you think they are, they should demolish them. If they win by a last second field goal, that is suddenly the separation between a decent team and a good team?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 07:44 PM) It would be Beckham. Kelly Johnson is a FA, right? No

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 04:42 PM) Random spazz thought - does anyone think this possibility crossed Kenny's mind: trade Buehrle (and I generally loathe the idea BTW) for pretty much nothing but a couple useful prospects and salary relief, and use Danks in an Upton deal, and then take the money saved and ... gasp ... throw it at Cliff Lee? Because Danks in arb + Mark is around $20M and Cliff Lee + Upton is only a mil or two above that. And that's about the only scenario where I like trading Mark. I'd only do it to take on a better pitcher. I'm sure the thought has occurred, but the Sox have never really gone beyond 4 years for any pitcher, and Lee is probably going to get 6 years, despite his age. Quite frankly, I'll be fine if the Sox remain out of the Lee bidding. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 04:43 PM) I'd be down for a Buehrle for Rasmus deal. Probably wouldn't work straight up but maybe there is a framework there? Hell if I know. But St. Louis is the only place you could deal Buehrle to without taking a major PR hit. You'd have to spin it in the sense that he always wanted to play there and the opportunity came up to let him go "home" or blah blah blah. Losing Paulie and Buehrle would be a PR nightmare. Again, doesn't necessarily mean the Sox couldn't win by not bringing those guys back (or in Buehrle case dealing him) but there are PR ramifications you have to consider. The Cardinals have absolutely no use for Mark Buehrle, nor John Danks, or really any other starter in the major leagues (aside from those who will be used as injury replacements). They have Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Westbrook, and Lohse all capable of starting games and, together, have something like $35-40 million due to them. They aren't going to look to add a $14 million pitcher when they are trying to keep money to pay Pujols.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 05:40 PM) I don't think we're getting that kind of value out of Carlos. It's now been 2 years since his breakout and it's probably looking like an anomaly to some people because of that. Remove his 2008 season and in 1380 MLB PA he's hitting .237/.328/.455/.783 which is not much for a guy who can't really play defense anywhere. Keep his huge 2008 and you're still looking at a line of .251/.347/.488/.835 which is still not great for a butcher in the OF. If we can keep him as a DH we could come out way ahead though. It just sucks because we can get burned whether we trade him or keep him. Kenny is in a tough spot with this guy. Why is that? The White Sox have had pretty much the worst defensive RF in the majors for the past 6 years. I think the main 4 positions Williams cares about defensively are SS, 2B, CF, and C, probably in that order. The Sox selling Quentin undervalue would be a mistake because of how vast his potential really is. If he "bombs" again next year, you can deal him then and let another team worry about tendering him a contract.

He's gonna be, like, really, really, really expensive to acquire. And more than anything it seems that Kevin Towers is simply putting Upton out there and getting feelers for him. If he finds the right offer, he may bite. I think the Sox only hope would be for Towers to value Danks or Floyd very highly, otherwise it's going to be pretty much impossible to make a deal.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 01:25 PM) Curtis Granderson? The Sox always seem to be a couple years late. I wouldn't trade a starting pitcher for him at this point in his career Curtis Granderson is going to be 30 next year, and he's not exactly Jermaine Dye (which is to say, old, immobile, and washed up)

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 05:00 PM) So who is this Logan Morrison kid that Jerry values so high? #18 prospect in 2009 #20 prospect in 2010 .283/.390/.447/.837 in 287 PAs at the majors this year. Looks like he has power, but is probably only a 15-20 homer guy next year. He's a good player. The Sox would have done very well to get him for Ozzie.

When you have 9 outfielders, you better trade atleast one of them. I like it for both sides.