witesoxfan

I like Cabrera because he's a generally good hitter and is a player you really don't like seeing at the plate or on the basepaths; that said he's not a dangerous hitter by any means and he doesn't do a damn thing better than any other player in the league other than be a pain in the ass to everyone in the Sox clubhouse and everyone else's. He's generally overrated around the league, he doesn't appear to be well liked in the clubhouse, and even considering his overratedness, his value is higher than it normally would be because he's likely to net 2 first round picks (though I believe I've been over-inflating how much more valuable that really is). The only way I think you deal him though is if you get a big upgrade at 2B; to me, that's basically Brian Roberts or Orlando Hudson or you don't deal him. Or I suppose if you could find an upgrade at SS, but that'd just be silly.

I'm going to state this once and only once and if it happens again I'm going to freak the f*** out - just a warning. The Braves will not trade Chipper Jones. There, I'm done, I've said my bit, and don't you dare bring it up again.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) And that we got Garcia to sign a 3 year deal after trading for him was a masterstroke, especially considering we only gave up a journeyman catcher, a 4th OF, and a fringe infielder. Excellent trade that was by Kenny. He wins most of the time when he makes a deal as we've come to see here over the past few years. at the time, it was a future starting catcher, a future #2 hitter (comparable to Mark Kotsay), and a boom or bust middle infield prospect. Olivo's onto his 5th different organization and Jeremy Reed is comparable to Brian Anderson in terms of being a "bust" though still a very valuable player. Mike Morse, the throw-in of the deal, has arguably been the most productive player in the majors, though he's never been given a shot; he was also suspended for steroid use. Anything and everything pertaining to a Freddy Garcia trade makes KW's all-time top 5 best trades ever. He should sign him just to trade him again. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) If the plan was to trade OC for Lowe and have Cora play everyday, they might as well DL Crede, move Ramirez to third and call up Oney Guillen. That would be ridiculous. Give the Red Sox the better player and pay them the difference in salaries? Dick, I literally could not agree any more with you. If KW makes that deal, Theo better atleast cuddle with him afterwards, because he is bending him over the table and sticking it to him. That's why I can't believe that's how it's happening.

so according to my estimation, s*** happened today yet nothing really happened at all, and all the while I missed every bit of it working my ass off fun I'm still not a fan of Duch and I hope that plan A or B comes through...I just can't trust him down the stretch, and I don't really ever like dealing with Beane.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) The characterazation Roberts as a 'superstar' is a stretch in the other direction as far as I'm concerned. seriously, on what planet is Brian Roberts a superstar?

oh yeah, and wtf is the story with Caleb Campbell? The army isn't letting him play? I'm all for the army and getting all the soldiers you need, but that's just such bulls***...what better way is there to advertise than letting one of your own go on to the public stage and be a walking advertisement for the army? It would just also be great if the army would allow people to leave if they were able to land another job that paid significantly more (perhaps 5 or 10 times more) and required said person to donate a certain amount of their paycheck to the army, or something along the lines. Perhaps it's slightly the wrong forum, but it's frustrating to see something like this.

QUOTE (JFields27 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 03:10 AM) so where are you dumping Fields and Crede, if your getting LaRoche right now? Or are you gonna put LaRoche at SS, and keep it as it is. Then let Crede go at the end of the season and trade Fields and company for Roberts? im not for that, but im just wondering what your gonna do with 3 3B(granted Fields doesnt matter into the situation right now) Fields is traded to Baltimore in a deal for Roberts. Costanzo is there too, but he has pretty much been looked at as a boom or bust prospect by most and has actually had a worse year than Fields (although he's been healthy all year too, unlike Fields). Kind of a similar prospect to Fields in that he has great power, strikes out a lot, doesn't show great discipline, and doesn't have a great average. That said, I think they'd like Fields' athleticism too, and worst comes to worst, he'd probably be just fine long-term in LF or RF. LaRoche, in the meantime, recuperates in AAA or on the bench of the MLB team, getting spot starts and starting if Crede needs some time on the DL (and that's if he's on the MLB roster; otherwise, he's in Charlotte starting at 3B). I said above, LaRoche would be an insurance policy for the remainder of this season and then would become the starting 3Bman next season with Crede leaving for free agency. You'd also have to be getting something else back from LA, because the two picks you'd get for Cabrera alone are worth more than LaRoche is - potentially Derek Lowe if LA is really willing to do that. 3B to 1B, Crede-Ramirez-Roberts-Konerko; LaRoche, Wise, Anderson, Cora (if that deal is made), and Hall on the bench. I don't understand the Uribe for Cora swap though unless Boston really wants him enough that they'd be willing to give up something valuable enough that the Sox could include in a deal for Roberts while also giving the replacement in Cora too. all drawn out, it looks something like Fields, Poreda, Broadway/Egbert, and perhaps another prospect for Roberts (though whether that final prospect is really necessary is debatable) Cabrera and Egbert/Broadway/Contreras for Lowe and LaRoche (or whatever...not sure who's available or what the Sox are looking at) and then if it's necessary, Uribe for Cora and a prospect (if possible, the Sox should avoid this)

QUOTE (jackie hayes @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 11:41 AM) We need somebody who routinely fails drug tests, hasn't been able to latch on anywhere despite numerous tryouts, and reportedly ran a 4.8 40 in his last tryout? The receiving corps may be bad, but it sure as hell is not that bad. Monk > Rogers, easy. let alone the 15 games in 3 years and not getting on the field since 2005 I think someone else mentioned that too

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) in GIDP. No other team is even frickin close to 7 players of the top 64, obviously I can't recall how many times this season I've said "please strike out so you don't GIDP" unf***ingreal salute the health of the team; I'm sure if the Sox were as unhealthy as every other team in the majors, they wouldn't have 7 guys in the top 64. Where are they in GIDPs for the entire team as opposed to the rest of the league? I'm sure it's high but I bet it doesn't lead the league. Without looking, I'd say anywhere from 4th-6th sounds right.

I agree with Yas on this. If a player sucks, you get rid of him; you don't (necessarily) boo him. If a player sucks, he says something about the organization or fans, and has never done anything, then you can boo him (I probably only would if drunk, but whatever). Paulie has earned a free pass from booing; I will never boo the man because of what he did in his past, just as I will never boo Mark Buehrle nor will I ever boo Frank Thomas. That doesn't mean they can't or won't ever be replaced within the organization though or he can't be criticized by sportswriters and fans of the team; just that he should be free from booing.

I say LaRoche only because I don't think the organization needs another 2B prospect, nor do I think they need to spend a hefty price attempting to get one because finding an average to slightly above average 2Bman isn't that hard to do and the Sox have done it as well as any other organization; Ramirez, Iguchi, Uribe, Harris, Alomar, Jimenez, and Durham have all manned the position for roughly half a season to a full season for the Sox this decade and have, by and large, been atleast league average during their time at 2B. Getting a guy in LaRoche who has killed the ball at AAA in the PCL but has struggled in the majors - ala some dude named Quentin - for 3B this and next year would be absolutely wonderful. I have to imagine that's who KW is looking at from LA.

QUOTE (JFields27 @ Jul 24, 2008 -> 01:01 AM) OC for DeWitt and something elses can be worked out id do that for sure .. I wouldn't. LaRoche or they can pound sand.

f*** that...win all 10. And other than that, win every series. Go .500 on a road trip...pshhhh. if I were Ozzie, I'd say STFU, quit f***ing whining, and go hit the f***ing ball. I can't stand these Tigers/Twins/Royals.

Hamilton has also been at the top of the lineup for a good period of time now. Carlos Quentin generally hit 6th, 7th, and 8th in the lineup, outside of one game as the leadoff hitter (which I didn't remember), and wasn't moved up in the order - to 2nd - until May 5th. After a few more struggles for the team, Quentin was finally moved to 3rd in the lineup on May 14th. That means Hamilton has about a month, total, of hitting 4 spots in the Texas lineup higher than Carlos Quentin. That's probably the biggest reason for the discrepancy in the total PAs (which isn't as much as some people would think - Quentin at 421 PAs, Hamilton at 447 PAs). oh, and I believe the title of this thread should real "TCQ4MVP"...we Sox fans and our little initialisms. It's cute as hell.

I'd say when the Sox run out of options for Haeger is when they'll deal him, so long as they don't have a spot on the roster for him (which I sincerely doubt). Same goes for Getz and company too, but they're different as they probably will have spots for those guys. And unless someone overpays for Anderson at his current value - meaning they are trading for a damn good 4th outfielder rather than a mediocre one - the Sox probably won't ever trade him. That's not to say Anderson doesn't have his value or he couldn't develop into a starting player at some point, as I'm a huge Anderson fan, but he is a fairly average 4th outfielder who happens to be able to cover a lot of ground. And I do want him starting in the outfield some time within the next 2 years.

I'll disagree with Daric Barton but agree completely with the premise that 1st round picks are not the only way to acquire talent. Carlos Quentin was acquired this offseason for a 15th rounder. I also think this year is going to be a funny deadline for the Sox. I see KW making atleast one move, because he doesn't seem to be able to not make atleast one, but I see it as either very slow in terms of moves or the Sox being the busiest team in all of baseball and absolutely no in-between. And you won't hear any of it mentioned to the press until after it's been completed.

First, Contreras and Cabrera for Lowe is a terrible deal. You are dealing a true 4th/5th starter, a decent but not great shortstop, and 2 top prospects for a #3 starter. Consider that. At this point in time, there's no way in my mind that Cabrera and Lowe's values are equal, let alone including Contreras, who you could assuredly get a piece or two for. The Nationals got two minor league pitchers for Livan Hernandez, and that was after his fastball had dropped to 85 MPH. You don't give anybody away (unless his name is Barry Zito). I do see Cabrera as a potential trading chip though simply because it doesn't seem as though he's well liked in the clubhouse, he's not incredibly productive, and the moves that would come would potentially be a theoretical upgrade to the lineup, and he is almost certainly going to be a type A free agent - may as well cash in on those draft choices now rather than 2 years from now when you could finally trade them. Also, the Sox wouldn't move an expiring contract for an inferior player to save $2 million to acquire Brian Roberts...their payroll is $100+ mill, $2 mill isn't going to make or break the team. Kenny Williams isn't dumb and he's hung on to Juan Uribe this long because he understands that he's actually a pretty damn valuable player. If the Sox were to acquire Cora as the replacement for Uribe, you bet your ass the Sox would be getting another player back in return. Who, I don't know for sure, but I'd say it's damn near certain that they would. Finally, I can see the reasoning behind every one of these moves, and a player I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see coming back to the Sox from the Dodgers would be Andy LaRoche. Buy low, sell high. Move Uribe for Cora and a piece, move said piece and any prospects you can, including Fields, to Baltimore for Roberts, and then move Cabrera and perhaps a prospect or two to LA for Lowe and LaRoche (which really ends up being Cabrera and two picks in the first 35-40 for Lowe and LaRoche). The team looks better than it did going in, but the bench has been hurt a bit. But you have every position tied down and an insurance policy at 3B for the rest of the season while also having one for the future too that the organization likes. I don't see anything else that KW could be looking at. Also, I believe all Matt Kemp dreams can be put aside...not only do the Sox not need another outfielder, what with Quentin, Dye, Swisher, Anderson, and potentially Cook and Owens in the minors (and that's not including Wise, who wouldn't be a surprise on the bench next year), but there's bad blood between the Birmingham - who just so happens to be a minor league affiliate - and Matt Kemp. I don't ever see him playing in a White Sox uniform unless it's years from now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 07:05 PM) It would be pretty hard to look away if he has 30 or 40 more RBI than anyone else, but if Quentin keeps it up and the Sox win, he'll have a pretty good shot. which is complete bulls*** because RBI is dependant upon the number of baserunners on ahead of you. If the Sox had Kinsler (.324/.383/.525/.908) and Young (.293/.342/.412/.754) at the top of the lineup rather than Cabrera (.262/.321/.351/.672) and Pierzynski (.289/.326/.425/.750) Quentin would have damn near 100 RBI by now too. It's a big number that's usually pretty impressive to look at, but I hate when people ever use RBI as a determining point in a discussion as important as MVP.

QUOTE (chiguy79 @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 05:14 PM) If yankees make playoffs A-Rod will win no doubt...it is a popularity contest and CQ is still fairly unknown. Or it will go to hamilton with all the media love he has gotten this year. CQ would really need to turn it on the last two months to leave no doubt. Lets just win the division though, eh! If the Yankees make the playoffs, the best player on their team will win the MVP. Yep, just like in 2006. Yep. If Quentin keeps up his pace, ends up at around .280/.380/.550 or so, 40+ homers and 120+ RBI, and the Sox win the division, he has to be the favorite outside of Hamilton, who everyone wants to bone.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 02:27 PM) Were you listening to Cowherd this morning? Cause he was mentioning that exact thing. he's probably listening to me cuz I don't get his show in the backwoods up here

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 02:15 PM) I don't like Richard's pitching motion at all. He looks very stiff and uncomfortable on the mound. He short arms it big time, snapping the arm around, and he doesn't follow through very much. He also doesn't stride out much at all. For a tall guy, that's not good, because he can get wild high in the zone and eventually leave some pitches up to get crushed. Hopefully he proves me wrong. Can't wait to see him throw. funniest looking delivery I've seen in a while

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 23, 2008 -> 12:29 AM) I wondered if he was gonna get a shot with the big league club with how he was hitting. like a .265 average and he doesn't draw walks...basically meaning he'd be lucky to put up Fields' line from last season. He's pretty much the truest defintion of a AAAA player.

so, largely because ESPN hasn't been shoving it down my throat, ramming it up my ass, and trying to shoot it into my bloodstream all at the same time, I had no idea that Daisuke Matsuzaka has an ERA of 2.63 this year. Aside from absolutely horrendous control, he has been money this year. Maybe I've just taught myself how to zone myself out of ESPN at the right times now a days, because I was actually surprised to see that. Just weird

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) I don't know, maybe it comes from the fact that I made that comment and you made a sarcastic post about it. PS: Paul Konerko still blows (not towards you Tony, just toward everyone- no need in making a whole new post just to state the obvious). alright, here's how the process goes or has gone player A gets injured...not bad enough to sit, but bad enough that it's a nuisance. player A continues to play, pain continues to manifest, and player A struggles because of it player A takes a bit off, hopes pain goes away, and comes back...pain has apparently not gone away player A continues to hope and pray it goes away and another injury comes up, where player A has to go on the DL player A now rests for a good 20-30 days, letting everything heal player A comes back after having not seen major league pitching in almost a month and is a little rusty, perhaps playing with phantom pain as well player A starts swinging the bat well, but the balls aren't falling yet; player A is also mired in a bit of a slump due to rustiness player A finally starts hitting and seeing the ball well and not just swinging well, but hitting them at people player A is playing well As far as I've ever seen, that's a pretty general synopsis of where Paul Konerko is to this point in the season...it happens. He is at the second to last phase, and if you watched the game tonight, you would have seen that. So yeah, everyone please keep telling me about how badly Paul Konerko sucks, even 3 weeks later when his average has risen 25 points, he's up to 15 homers on the season, and his OPS is up to .735. You did it to me and everyone else for Jim Thome too, even though he was a good player as of about June 1st.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 22, 2008 -> 10:34 PM) He got Contreras about 2 minutes before the deadline in 2004. I wouldn't mind seeing some small deals like dumping Massest, MacDougal, Uribe, and/or Hall for some minor leaguers. What value are you going to get at all out of Masset, MacDougal, Uribe, or Hall that they won't provide at the MLB level? And why would you just dump them? Masset's been an OK swingman, Uribe is great insurance on the bench and is actually hitting now that he's sitting, and Toby Hall is hitting fairly well in the last year of his deal and is apparently well liked in the clubhouse. MacDougal blows, so if you could dump him, that'd be fantastic...may as well keep everybody else though, it's not like their presence is really hurting anything.