witesoxfan

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 01:07 AM) agreed. and Frank Thomas isn't going to hit in '06 cause he can't play. I disagree with the Dye-Erstad comparison. In fact, any time a Dye-Erstad comparison is brought up, I die a little inside. Dye broke his leg on a foul ball, came back and then made a stupid play and tried to barrel over a catcher and ended up separating his shoulder. He's shown no lingering effects from that at all since it happened. Meanwhile, Erstad has had severe problems with his lower body when asked to play the OF in the past. It cost him time in 2003, I'd assume the same area (though that's probably the wrong thing to do) in 2004, and I think it was the same area that caused him to miss 3/4 of last season too - after he was asked to play the OF again for the first time since (dun dun dun) 2003. If he can prove he's healthy and he can have a season close to what he put up in 2004 (in the 125 games he played) great, that'd be outstanding for $1 mill. I'm not counting on it personally, but if he can it's better for the Sox. and Thomas actually had to go through like a crazy treatment where I think they just made like a million microfractures in his foot and it healed up. I'm hoping ptact can help me on this one, as I recall him talking about in not that long ago. QUOTE(ScottyDo @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 01:09 AM) I'm aware that when a Sox player has a bad season, they're the scapegoat for all failures until they happen to have a good season, but I'd say we NEED Pods. None of our outfielders are yet capable of holding down LF for a season. Pods is. He's a necessity if we're to succeed this season, whether people like it or not. Darin Erstad, Rob Mackowiak, or Ryan Sweeney could handle it just fine and would all almost undoubtedly put up better numbers than Podsednik.

QUOTE(rowandrules83 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 11:45 PM) Where have i not advocated that? Um, maybe in the post you responded to...i said that i don't think we need him back, so it seems that you are making rebuttals to points that I never made. Just because I say I think he's better than you're making him out to be doesn't automatically mean I think the sox should try to get him back. I think it's kinda messed up to criticize me and say I'm making a stupid argument for stating facts (such as Aaron Rowand has been a starting CF the past few years for solid teams) and then use your "instinct" as part of the basis of your argument. If you have that feeling, hell, more power to you, but it doesn't mean that i'm a biased, defensive jackass. Well, at the least the biased and defensive part...i am kinda a jackass I'm using facts too. His OPS is below league average for an outfielder. Below average offensive outfielders generally shouldn't start, especially when their defense, even if good, doesn't justify them starting in the first place. Many would agree with that line of thought. regardless, this argument is going nowhere, and we are arguing over something petty. Maybe we are both jackasses

QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 11:07 PM) All the discussion of trading for Rowand and/or Brian going down to AAA etc. etc. is based on the facts that: (1) Last year Brian had a hole in his swing so large you could've driven a truck through it (2) As of 10 days ago he was batting .188 in spring training If Brian continues to hit like he has in the last 10 days and finally proves he can consistently hit major league pitching, he'll be our centerfielder. If not, he won't. Simple as that... I really doubt that last part is true. If Podsednik is healthy, I see Anderson in AAA. If not, Anderson is in the majors.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) im pretty sure he is trying to field the best team, and if he thinks anderson is going to hit sub .240 this season then maybe he isnt the answer and erstad could be, im not saying that he is but anderson needs to prove himself in AAA before he should start again, he sucked at offense, no one can deny that, and his swing and plate approach was awful and he may need some more instructional ab's in the minors before he is ready to reach his potential but i do wish we could rewind to 05 where I waited in aw for Owens, Sweeney, Young, and Anderson to duke it out for what i thought could have been one of the best outfields that the sox have had if it means anything - and I know it doesn't - Erstad missed 120 games last year and had an OPS just above .600. Shouldn't he have to prove himself down at AAA? Anderson has proven himself at AAA. I'm not entirely against it, because I think he's going to get back into the Chicago outfield before long anyways, but give me a break. The reason he would go to AAA is not because he's not ready for the majors but rather because he needs to be playing regularly everyday.

QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 06:47 PM) It's the same for Josh Fields though, isn't it? I haven't looked at his numbers for a little bit, but if I remember correctly, last year trumped his past years, and it wasn't even close. That being said, Fields is younger, and hasn't been in the minors for as long as Phillips. Fields has tools scouts love. If Phillips had an 89-92 fastball and a good curve with a developing changeup (or those last two the other way around, doesn't matter), he'd be a top 5 prospect. Numbers are one thing, tools are another, and scouts generally tend to favor tools over numbers because of what could be. Regardless of this, I wonder if Oakland would be interested in Phillips, especially if he puts up another solid half season. Joe Kennedy can't stay healthy when he starts, and I'm not sure what the A's have for pitching depth. If possible, I wonder if the Sox could squeeze one of their middle infield prospects for him.

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 07:12 PM) good for you , you tell me who will make it. Put it in writing and give me the year. Ryan Sweeney probably 2008 John Danks either 2007 or 2008 Josh Fields 2008 Charlie Haeger will make appearances this year, and could be a member of the pitching staff full time by 2008 Brian Anderson will be this year, be it in April or June-July. If Gio Gonzalez makes it, it'll be 2008-2009, depending upon how his control comes along Heath Phillips could very easily be a #5 starter or a LH reliever for a major league team this year, but it's not the White Sox Broadway could be up at some point this year if injuries arise, or he could be shipped off in a trade somewhere. He could also win a spot in the rotation next year, but I just don't see that happening for some reason. Masset will likely be a reliever for his entire tenure in Chicago, but there is still the thought that he can be a starter. It's not likely, but possible. Regardless of whether he is or isn't, he'll be in Chicago at some point in time this year, very likely as a reliever. Sisco could start for the team come 2008 as well and if not, he will be a useful reliever. those are my best guesses as far as those players are concerned, and I can make other guesses if you wish. I don't claim to be a minor league expert but it's pretty easy to see how these guys shape up just by reading around. The Sox system isn't hobos and talentless bums. There are quite a few good pitchers in the minors now, and the few hitters the Sox do have aren't bad. Anderson will probably never hit .300, but Torii Hunter lite could be an expectation at some point in his career; Ryan Sweeney likely will hit .300 and he could do it quite a few times along with some decent power; Josh Fields has 30 homer power, the only concern right now is contact rate.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 06:36 PM) correct me if I am wrong, but all these players can still play in the spring training games, right? not the ones sent to minor league camp

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) Oh man not the great Wes Whisler, or our next cather Don Lucy! Please say it isn't so. heath Phillips didn't make it either? Heath is taking the Ross Gload path to the majors. Maybe the Royals will take him. Oh man not the great [fringe prospect from Minnesota], or our next cather [fringe prospect from Detroit]! Please say it isn't so. [fringe prospect from Cleveland] didn't make it either? [fringe prospect] is taking the Ross Gload path to the majors. Maybe the Royals will take him. None of the guys you mentioned, aside from Phillips, will likely ever touch make the majors. So yeah, those minor leaguers do suck if that's what you're talking about.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) Oh I can buy that, for sure. I think the Sox had there eye on Dave Roberts, but didn't want to go the 3 years, and I don't really blame them. Same goes for Pierre. I don't know how much interest was actually there, but giving Juan a 5 year deal would have been awful. I just remember having the feeling that Podsednik coming back wasn't really possible. Just seemed like such a miserable season, they were sure to move on. Guess not. And Figgins was going to cost Crede if the Angels were actually serious about that.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 02:01 PM) its amazing how one moment spring training numbers mean nothing and the next minute BAM! they're the most important stat in the world. lol For a guy like Anderson or Erstad who's trying to prove himself, it does matter. For a guy like Konerko or Iguchi or Pierzynski, not nearly as much because they know what to expect and know what they need to do to be successful. I suppose you could argue that Rowand knows what he needs to do, but usually players hit better than .129. Just like you could argue that even though Garland and Buehrle and Vazquez know what do to, they all still have ERAs that are way to friggin high.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:19 PM) Just a couple quick comparisons I came up with off the top of my head: Alfonso Soriano through 394 career ABs: 98H | 55R | 25 2B | 9HR | 38RBI | .249/.280/.391/.670 Aramis Ramirez through 399 career ABs: 89H | 29R | 16 2B | 7HR | 38RBI | .223/.283/.326/.609 Brian Anderson through 399 career ABs: 88H | 49R | 24 2B | 10HR | 36RBI | .221/.281/.361/.642 Miguel Tejada through 400 career ABs: 91H | 55R | 21 2B | 10HR | 48RBI | .228/.293/.370/.663 Paul Konerko through 398 career ABs: 93H | 42R | 14 2B | 13HR | 48RBI | .234/.286/.372/.658 Troy Glaus through 400 career ABs: 93H | 59R | 26 2B | 12HR | 53RBI | .233/.301/.388 /.689 So yeah, Brian Anderson is pretty f***ed. winnar And don't forget our favorite comparison to Anderson, Torii Hunter. .689 OPS his first full year, and he had a .610 OPS in his callup during 1998.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) ok... but its a statistical fact that there is always a regression to the mean so for instance with Rowand, 42 VORP and 8.8 VORP cancel each other out and what your left with is a pretty decent VORP in the 14-19 range. how can you not buy that? and by the way - what numbers do you have to back up your educated guess? just wondering. EDIT: and by the way, the whole point of my post was to dispel this 4th OF bull. based on purely numbers from the last 3 seasons alone he's better than a replacement player by far. Everything I've seen from Rowand since 2004 suggests his game is going downhill. Why is that suddenly going to change? Anderson is a good young player who really can't get worse than he was, and he has looked better this spring. Meanwhile, Anderson had about a .700 OPS in the second half last year, and after having worked a bit on his swing during the winter and just recently in ST, he is absolutely tearing the cover off of the ball in Spring Ball (to no avail too because Ozzie won't give him his shot in CF which is an absolute joke) - .348/.385/.565/.950 - opposed to Rowand's OPS not even equaling Anderson's average - .129/.152/.161/.313. And beyond that, it's merely hunch.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) I've never said I give up on him. I just flat-out don't like him or think he can hit particularly well. Floyd on the other hand -- comparing him to Halladay, hah. stop avoiding the question. Are their careers similar or not?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) Why does every bad-but-young Sox player have to be compared to the best players in the game? Justin Morneau! Roy Halladay! Brian Anderson is Albert Pujols in disguise

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:06 PM) Comparing Floyd to Roy Halladay? Oh no, close the thread before this gets ugly, please. This comparision is going to hold even less water when Floyd starts in AAA and Danks has his job though. just saying...they have comparable histories (up to this point in Floyd's career) and similar repertoire's. I completely doubt he puts up 18 win season year after year, but it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) Or the Rangers team could be contracted and McCarthy ends up right back with the Sox. It's been 3 f***ing months, little early don't you think? I find aliens abducting him far more likely and yes it's way too early to be deciding anything as far as this trade is concerned

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) It's pretty easy to pick apart the comparison because even when he was having rough outings Contreras had electrifying stuff and he had a track record of success with Cuba. Floyd's stuff is good, not dynamite, and he's not a dominant pitcher at any pro level. Explain to me what 2002-04 were then? Just slightly less then dominant? And, even as I grasp for straws here, tell me, at what level was Roy Halladay first dominant? And are Floyd's MLB numbers up to this point in each of their careers not atleast similar in the least?

QUOTE(HeGone33 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 12:42 PM) That was my point in summing it up. Im not going to repeat all the things on here that keep repeated over and over about him. Say all you want about Brian this and Brian that, but last year he sucked and looked nervous, scared and clueless at the plate! Brian Anderson is apparently trapped in some sort of time warp where he is always stuck in the year 2006, and he is always a rookie, and he will always suck, look nervous, scared, and clueless at the plate. The little b****.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 12:44 PM) here's where i dont get the 4th OF thing: VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) for the last 3 years. 2004 42.0 2005 14.7 2006 8.8 now, last year was very low because of health issues and - possibly - not liking where he's playing. yes that's a big assumtion but who knows. 2004 is so high because it was a random breakout year that he's not likely to duplicate again. so that leaves us with 14.7 which is actually a pretty respectable number and actually, BP is projecting an 18 VORP for 2007. for Anderson they're projecting a 9.1 VORP (significantly better than last year's -11.3) for Erstad they're projecting a -8.6... ick for Podsednik it's a -3.2 ok so my point is, if Rowand is a 4th OF than the other three need to be sent to the minors or sumthin cuz DAMN. In the end, if he came cheap, Rowand would help this team better than any of our other options. EDIT: oh and by the way, VORP does NOT take defense into account so he's actually even MORE useful then. That's merely projections. You're basing your entire argument off of something that they think might happen if everything in their scenario goes right. It's obviously an educated guess, but my educated guess says Anderson will have a better year than Rowand if he plays full time. Neither of us are right or wrong, and neither are more right or more wrong. So, no, I don't buy your argument at all.

QUOTE(rowandrules83 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 07:48 AM) Um, please find where I said we should trade back for him immediately and give him the starting cf job? This has nothing to do with the abilities of Erstad or BA. Personally, I don't think we need Rowand back, so to use my "bias" just because of a friggin screen name is quite an ignorant argument on your part. You guaranteed that Rowand is about league average offensively and good to above average defensively? So, only above average guys are starters? Every team in baseball has potential all-stars? I think you are completely missing my point. Average offensively and solid defense can, and does, help many players in this league have starting jobs. I never claimed that Rowand was a star, I just claimed that, being a starting cf for the past 3 years, by definition, he is not a 4th outfielder. Also, just because a player is expendable doesn't make him less of a player. Under that logic, Freddy Garcia isn't even a 5th starter, because we traded him to make room for other guys. Where have you not advocated bringing him back? No one wants him back immediately because he's mediocre. And if you aren't advocating that, then why are we even having this discussion? He would be a 4th OFer here, that's all I've ever said, and you've essentially agreed to that, have you not? And you're just arguing for technicality's sake? JFC, you aren't defensive when it comes to Rowand at all. Next, if you read closely, I said he'd be around league average, pretty much at his best. I don't know how else you would interpret "I guarantee Aaron Rowand is either below average or right around average offensively." I haven't done the math, but my instinct tells me he's below average offensively, and perhaps quite a bit below average. And I don't get what the f*** you're trying to prove with your last statement. Who suggested that?

or Danks can flare out, Masset's arm can fall off, and McCarthy can harness his outstanding curve and change and continue to work on his 2-seamer, turning himself into a top of the rotation starter.

see greasy Felix haha that sounds funny

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) The funny thing about mentioning grinders is that if we used our collective brains last year, we would have guaranteed that Erstad would be on the White Sox. What other players does Hawk gush over about their all-out hustle? David Eckstein has the biggest heart of anyone in the MLB his quote, not mine

I hope Anderson cries ala Ozzie Smith with the opposite argument. Honestly I do, because with the spring he's having, he deserves to be on the roster.

I thought Politte was going to revert back to something close to 2004 and Cotts was going to have Thornton's numbers. I think I thought that anyways. Maybe that is just something I realized I should have expected, and then they just both completely blew up. and yes, q\/\/3r+y is the man