caulfield12

Ryu is going to get $54-60 million for three years at a minimum...likely to go as high as $75-80 million over four.

According to the LA Times, Cole has met with both the Dodgers and Angels recently... https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2019-12-04/dodgers-meet-with-gerrit-cole-houston-astros-free-agent-mlb Dodgers have already met with Rendon and Strasburg as well. Also looking at Josh Donaldson.

Colome...

Wheeler found that success despite allowing a .309 batting average on balls in play (BABIP) that was above the league average, indicating that Wheeler was somewhat unlucky. Wheeler already limits his walks and strikes out enough batters. The Phillies, who improved drastically in the field last season, should provide better defense behind him. There are reasons to believe he could be even better. Wheeler’s average fastball last season was 97 mph, as his velocity moved beyond what it was before his Tommy John surgery. Just four pitchers — Noah Syndergaard, Gerrit Cole, Luis Severino, and Jacob deGrom — have thrown more 97-mph-or-greater pitches than Wheeler over the last two seasons. He has thrown 1,111. Phillies starters have thrown 40. Just two National League clubs have thrown fewer than the Phillies, who finally have a power arm in their rotation. https://www.inquirer.com/phillies/philadelphia-phillies-zack-wheeler-free-agent-signing-20191204.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/business/mets-sale-steve-cohen-fred-wilpon/index.html

We’ll see what the new stadium does to pitchers’ numbers...just doesn’t seem a good match for that division. Fwiw, the Twins might want Pineda back still. And they bid 5/$100 on Wheeler and are now in on Bumgarner, who makes more sense with that much larger outfield. http://www.startribune.com/twins-made-100-million-offer-to-zack-wheeler-before-he-turned-to-phillies/565804332/

Pineda’s perhaps the more interesting move...I don’t see the point in locking in a contract like that (Gibson) for three years. The Twins didn’t either. Go with a pitcher more willing to sign one and a nice rewarding option year if he outperforms.

We can't afford it.

Of course, the main issue here is the dearth of FA pitching options in the next two FA classes if our own youngsters don't live up to their potential...and lack of "expendable" trade chips of any value. Buying too many of those guys on the open market (well, overpaying is the word) is not the recipe to end up as anything but another version of the Chicago Cubs' current predicament.

The Tigers aren't going to trade them within the division and NOT expect an extra 10-15% premium in terms of prospect return. He's certainly not going to come at bargain prices.

LOL. Very mature. This is typical of the state of discourse in America today. Make your own thread. Debate/discuss. Rebut. It's a free world. I would imagine the Hahn Defense Team is in the minority today. If you don't like a poster, don't read his posts. Totally trashing him is very childish. SCCWS (12/04/19)

Unlike the underlying issues with Rick Hahn... that's the only constant. They can even insert it into James Earl Jones' Field of Dreams monologue in defense of the sport.

Nah... Washington Generals.

I meant Anderson and McCann offensively (oops, edited again and still keep writing the same thing.) McCann isn't a good enough hitter to hold DH... in a platoon... not if you look at his historical offensive numbers.

He's fine pitching in the NL West and specifically in SF. In the AL, he's not the same pitcher...and he loses his ability to hit as well, which is another huge bonus. For $100+ million, and knowing he's the centerpiece of the off-season and not the back-end starter (second pitching addition)....no way.

If he started hyping Tier C/D pitching (already), fans would start to freak out. It's only natural to start focusing on Bumgarner, especially as he's the last major piece on the pitching front not represented by Boras Corp.

Let's wait and see about your "two good relievers." The bullpen right now is unlikely to be a strength, overall. At DH, Collins looks like he did the first time he came up. Defensive woes in the corner outfield spots. Anderson regresses defensively, along with McCann. Abreu continues to age. Infield defense with Abreu and Anderson, etc. The biggest is still the starting rotation. Can Giolito repeat? Will Lopez force his way back into the conversation or end up as the future closer? Most importantly, what are Kopech and Cease going to turn out to be? Right now, assuming all those moves, you're looking at an 83-85ish win team, bordering on 87.

I'm pretty sure a 100% HEALTHY Ryu and 2+ fWAR production out of RF makes us a contender, if we can get an 825-850 OPS from Collins against RHP as DH. Of course, that's having ZERO idea what Minnesota is going to come up with for their rotation. And there's a big question mark in my mind how well the back end of the bullpen can do again in 2020 without any major reinforcements. It's more likely that Colome and Bummer regress than Fry and Herrera thrive.

Ryu will be roughly 50% of the Wheeler price in terms of overall dollars. That said, he's built for an all-in team (right now, like the Twins)...he'll want to stay as close to Korea as possibly, he wants to join his countryman Choo on the Rangers to complete their newly-revitalized rotation playing in a brand-new stadium or go back to the Dodgers if they miss on Cole/Strasburg...and, of course, he has Boras as his agent. And he can hardly ever stay healthy for a full season. Etc. Etc.

The difference, though...is that Sale had JUST helped deliver a World Series title in the previous season before signing that extension. Obviously, they'd probably love to take it back, but it's not like the additions of Price and Sale can be categorically declared failures when they both contributed to a 4th WS title in the span of two decades.

In the end, it's a business of closing. He has one box checked where he did something that almost nobody in baseball or loyal White Sox fans expected, beating out the Cardinals for Luis Robert. Recently, we have a series of deals where we arguably overpaid by 10-15%, including Grandal, Abreu and the Jimenez extension. There's certainly no "value extraction" going on in any of those moves. Of the other big-name acquisitions under his stewardship, Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche were all overpaid to various degrees as well. And we know all about last year's FA class. We can dwell on Wheeler, Machado (which actually worked out for the best, at least right now), Tanaka, etc., but he's going to be judged ultimately on won-loss record from this season forwards, not on getting turned down by Wheeler's fiance/family, essentially. Right now, we're left in a situation where we're forced back into Tier B/C pitching prospects with obvious warts...nothing unusual for the White Sox (or the Twins/Indians, for that matter.) From here on out, he's going to have to be extremely creative, and that's not his area of expertise. Looking at it logically, one would assume that means using the knowledge of Grandal...the Cuban/Latin American baseball family and Renteria as the manager, to try to leverage those relationships to bring in some more useful/undervalued players. Of course, that's a double-edged sword...I'd love to believe that the ethnic background or composition of the clubhouse or even the manager in this day and age would never be a factor in the player/agent decision-making process, but I'm not sure that's being 100% realistic, either. ULTIMATELY, as far as Hahn specifically goes, a great closer would be expected to get at least one of Moncada, Giolito or Luis Robert to sign an extension. I'll believe it when I see it, particularly with Moncada and Robert. If he can't do that, and he consistently fails to close the deal....regardless of whether it was the "right" or wrong player looking back retrospectively...and there's nothing else he demonstrably excels at (if there IS one, would love to hear it), then they need to find a new leader that can do a better job of selling the Chicago White Sox as an organization. Who doesn't sell it like a stock or bond or market arbitrage, but lives/dies/bleeds with every up and down of the organization. He doesn't have to be Hawk Harrelson, but something is missing, not sure if it's passion/charisma, but he just doesn't have the X Factor that great executives tend to possess, the ability to inspire his leadership team and inspire/motivate those around him to unparalleled heights. (Of course, we all know this is not how JR operates and there's never going to be a course correction. Not until/unless JR sells the team. Hahn will resign/fall on his own sword if the rebuild tanks and take a "promotion" to a position below KW or get a job in Silicon Valley or on Wall Street.)

The overall problem isn’t this ONE deal...it’s the lack of talent in the minor leagues to play around with AND the next two FA pitching classes being pretty darned MEHH. If we still don’t have the starting pitching or leaps of improvement in the farm system...then we’re just wasting every single year of Moncada, Giolito, Anderson and Grandal. The countdown clock is already ticking. The pitcher might have to come at the trade deadline next year. And we still don’t have a closer for 2021 or the look of a top-notch overall pen...albeit that’s easier to find. One just has to hope and pray everything breaks right before the first article suggesting a trade of one of those four guys appears.Missing the playoffs in 2021 really amps up the pressure. Just wonder if they kept Narvaez...we could have saved on Grandal and really had the money to go after Cole or Strasburg, but that’s really a pipe dream. And they better hope Abreu doesn’t fall off a cliff in 2021-22 or it’s going to turn ugly...not through any fault of Abreu’s personally, he’s not the one writing the checks, after all.

The idea of Javy was always greater than the sum of all his parts. A $300 million arm who never could be anything more than a solid #3/4 and somehow always managed to give up untimely big innings or come out on the wrong side of decisions.

The Rockies should be another team to inquire on... Fwiw, Ray is a great fantasy league pitcher for all his K’s, and that bails out the defense to an extent but also puts a lot of pressure on the bullpen due to elevated pitch counts in the 5th or 6th. How many HR’s did he allow? He’s one of those guys like Betts in the sign and extend camp who just might be wondering if the showers of money coming down from heaven will quickly dry up again next offseason...as the owners are clearly trying to make the point they’re not suppressing salaries or colluding. Or maybe another major economic recession hits over the next couple of years. Betts will get his with another 6+ fWAR...but does Ray get Wheeler Bucks as the prettiest girl left without a date for prom?

2020-21 Free Agents Starting pitchers: Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, James Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka, Jake Arrieta (club option), Marcus Stroman, Jose Quintana 2021-22 Free Agents Starting pitchers: Noah Syndergaard, Clayton Kershaw, Corey Kluber, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke, Chris Archer, Mike Foltynewicz Not a whole lotta options to be in love with there for a variety of reasons. Yikes.