caulfield12

Said all of those fans of Bobby Jenks at the end of his career, especially Greg. Just win baby, I remember quite clearly. Because he was the opposite of a sabre/advanced stats dream at the end of his Sox career. He was just barely surviving by the skin of his teeth, his physical health was deteriorating and his stuff was degrading over time as well. I don't think anyone would equate that with being a great closer. And that conveniently doesn't count the game Robertson blew on May 28th...because the lead he blew was SO freakin' large it didn't even qualify as a save opportunity...that's how bad it was, as you can't pitch your way into a save situation for yourself. You can count it as two, but it's three to the rest of Sox fans, a statistical oddity or anomaly of historical proportions that weekend.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 08:19 AM) Oh really? Here is what you had to post in the Peavy extension thread. Good news, not quite great, because you wonder about all the wear and tear that Robin and Cooper put him through, sometimes needlessly. On the other hand, it does afford us the luxury of packaging some guys like Quintana/Santiago (one of the two, probably), Thornton, Crain, Reed (possibly) to see what we can get back for 3B and possibly catcher. The biggest question marks are: 1) Does DeAza go back to CF? 90% chance, unless another starter is traded, like Rios, for a new CFer. 2) Who's the closer? 90% chance it's Reed, at least to start out. 3) AJ, Tyler or a new catcher not on the radar screen? 4) 3B And we did end up packaging/trading Santiago, just not for a 3B....it was for Eaton. They did trade Addison Reed for a 3B (just not a good one). I don't think I gave it either praise or derision, it was more of a neutral statement...and Avi Garcia as the centerpiece wasn't exactly much of a return, because the Tigers/Dombrowski know what they're doing. They managed to bring back Fulmer, Norris and Boyd in one calendar year to replenish their rotation because DD understood their situation quite clearly last year, and traded Cespedes and Price. The Tigers ended up with the far better player (defensively alone, he's worth 2.0-2.5 WAR per year) in Jose Iglesias. Good news, in the sense that it seemed they were trying to make an effort to choose some type of direction...not really due to being 100% sold on Peavy himself as a starting pitcher going forward.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 07:42 AM) His stats are out of whack because of 2 appearances covering a total of one inning. One it mattered, the other it didn't. He is one of the best closers in baseball. You have no idea what you are talking about. James Shields is one of the best starters in baseball if we just ignore 4-5 of his starts. Should we throw out all of his ER's because he only pitched like 3-4 innings total in them? The entire point of baseball for a pitcher is to record outs...therefore, when you don't succeed at that and keep allowing baserunners, of course the appearance/s will be limited, unless Ventura just left said pitcher in an unlimited amount of time. Do you blame Ventura, then, for those two appearances, moreso than Robertson? John Danks as well. Statistics don't lie...over the course of half a season, they paint a fairly decent picture. If we took all the blown saves away from each of those closers, wouldn't they all be close to elite? How many 1-2-3 innings has he had this year in closing situations, compared to the others? Or that's an unfair way to look at his job/responsibility as well...?

Oh, he's also better than Kevin Jepsen and Huston Street...yay! Cause for celebration.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/sort/saves On this page of the top 40 saves leaders in major leagues, Robertson has a WHIP of 1.40, which really isn't that good and I hope isn't considered elite or worth one of the Top 3 salaries in baseball for a closer. He's ahead of only Ziegler, McGee, Rosenthal (deposed from closer's role), Tolleson (deposed from closer's role) and Arodys Vizcaino. Not exactly the best of company for his salary. You want to talk about WAR instead? There are 19 relievers on that same page ahead of Robertson's 0.9, which for a full year equates to less than a 2 WAR. Some of the relievers in that same category? K-Rod, Santiago Casilla, Jonathan Papelbon and Ryan Madson. Not exactly elite again. If he's not a problem, then he's certainly not one of the 3-5 best closers in baseball, which he's clearly being paid to be. Unless you want to go through this list and tell us all the closers that you would currently rank Robertson ahead of, all stats to the contrary, you'd be quite generous to put him in the top 50%. Certainly not based on output per contract dollar or ROI.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 10, 2016 -> 01:56 AM) The guy has 19 home runs! In the article I linked they LOVE his improved defense. The guy just might be our Lou Brock-Ernie Broglio trade before it's over. Semien has 19 home runs! They were calling for him to be an all star already in Oakland. And we discard him. AWFUL. Meanwhile another stud, Saladino, sits day after day. Just make Saladino DH if we won't trade Laurie and give him second base or trade Frazier and give him third. Heck stick him in right field. He can hit. Lou Brock is a HoFer. Vogt made the All-Star team over him. I'm not sure what you saw out of Saladino LAST YEAR to make you think he's a stud...he's a very good utility infielder, and marginal everyday player, in all likelihood. Lawrie's very unlikely to be traded with 2017 doubling down on the "all in" concept. Finally, if Burdi becomes Sox closer for six years (ala Jenks), nobody will be missing Semien TOO MUCH. But that's a HUGE if in terms of Burdi. Nothing is guaranteed in baseball, even if he throws 99-104.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 09:38 PM) Ya they've been awful. You could even mention the Eaton trade. (If that was this regime) Prior...worth noting, the two best trades of the last decade, for Quentin and Eaton...were both with ARIZ. Everyone else coming over from the NL since that 2004-05 cycle (AJ/Pods/Hermanson), pretty much disastrous, with just a few exceptions.

LaRussa and Stewart aren't winning many fans out there. Greinke hasn't been nearly as good as 2015, although he's stabilized from that terrible first month. Shelby Miller disaster. Yasmani Tomas can't play defense. Injuries. Having to trade Ziegler for two (at best) Top 16-30 prospects in the Red Sox system (albeit, with more potential, than, let's say Tatis, Jr.) Lamb is one of the few positives out there.

If the White Sox can get Baez OR Almora for Robertson at the deadline (assuming the same exact positioning as last year), you have to do it. 1) You clear up all that payroll space for taking on a hitter's contract to replace Garcia...likely, it's a veteran hitter OR someone like a Colby Rasmus, Desmond or Fowler this offseason who desire one year deals in order to go back out onto the market. 2) You give the job to Nate Jones for the remainder of 2016. There's no reason to think he can't do just about as well as Robertson, if not better. 3) You start making assessments of Burdi, Hansen, Fulmer, Adams, Danish, Guerrero and Stephens and put at least two of those guys on the bullpen/closer track in the minors and see how they respond (this is because 2017 is the final "all in" year before they have to seriously consider rebuilding again). There's no reason you can't "pull a Sale" and put those guys back into AFL/winter ball and then stretch them out again as starters before 2018, and the odds are two consecutive non-playoff seasons won't give you the budget to go out and buy yourself starters on the FA market (anyway), so all hands on deck at that point. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume you can get two very good relievers out of that group...along with Putnam and Petricka returning and competing to improve the back end of the bullpen. I'd also give Michael Ynoa a long/hard look in more high/er leverage situations, essentially unseating Albers (who's clearly not part of the future w/ the White Sox). Goldberg is another guy I'd look at.

Semien's 14th in OPS and 13th in WAR at SS right now. Not a franchise cornerstone (those home run numbers mask some of his other deficiencies, like OBP and defense)...but a very very solid player. (As someone pointed out, at worst, the equivalent of Frazier at 3B this year). Let's just call it (Marcus' level at present) the absolute upside of Saladino on the WAR side of things. Realistically, he's not a consistent 3.5-4.5 WAR player every year...but maybe I'm wrong. Even a 3 WAR at SS under cost control (or 2B, in this case) is a huge way to balance out those veteran contracts.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/09/phila...cial-profiling/ Castile was stopped FIFTY-TWO times by the police over the span of 14 years....WHAT THE HELL? MINNEAPOLIS — When Philando Castile saw the flashing lights in his rearview mirror the night he got shot, it wasn’t unusual. He had been pulled over at least 52 times in recent years in and around the Twin Cities and given citations for minor offenses including speeding, driving without a muffler and not wearing a seat belt. He was assessed at least $6,588 in fines and fees, although more than half of the total 86 violations were dismissed, court records show.

PANIC IN THE STREETS... Lester rocked again. No-name starter keeps the Pirates in it long enough for the middle relievers to hold down the fort. Josh Bell is his second big league game, PHing (second hit, first was a single to CF)...HUGE GRAND SLAM. Cleared the seats towards the Riverwalk. Hope Balta is there. Hanging change-up off Warren. Next batter up, Jordy Mercer homers. Fireworks going off all over the city simultaneously for 200 year anniversary of city's founding in 1816. Pirates have cut Cubs' lead from 15 to 6 1/2 games in about 3 weeks. Lackey will attempt to avoid the sweep against Niese tmrw.

0/4 tonight. 2 K's, RBI. .118 average so far. Btw, Brad Goldberg might the next man in for our bullpen. Maybe.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/so...qualified/false Check out the -0.8 WAR line (bottom 40 pitchers in the majors, qualified and unqualfied). You'll find Matt Albers, along with the likes of Buchholz and Andrew Cashner, for example. Erik Johnson at -0.9. Shelby Miller at -1.2 (worst trade in years). Ubaldo Jimenez at -1.6. Tolleson, deposed Rangers' closer, at -1.0. Eric Surkamp and James Shields both at -0.4.

Well, isn't there a video of him falling on the dugout steps...? Surely, someone could corroborate it happening.

To me, Robertson's 2nd most effective "swing and miss" pitch is that knuckle curve. Perhaps, the most effective in avoiding contact, except when he hangs it. For some reason, it feels like his cutter has been getting fouled off more, and while it can get him ahead in counts, isn't a knockout pitch like it was in the past because everyone is keying on it. And it's just not quite as sharp as it was in the past, or like Mariano's (obviously, nobody's is THAT's good, it might as well be his HoF plaque instead of his bust). Once again, FG could back that up (or not).

Someone would have to look up the numbers at FG, but the Yankees' announcers have been consistently claiming Robertson was a much harder thrower when he faced them in the past pitching for NY. Can't help but think that overuse/fatigue over time (and part of it's due to throwing so many cutters, arguably) has eroded some of his velocity. Typically, he's struggles the most when pitching 4-5 times in a week or back-to-back or especially when it's more than an inning and he has to pitch again right after that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sportscaster-dal...-212141029.html This Dallas tv anchor's response could have been written by Greg...

1. TOR/BOS +10 3. HOU +5 2 1/2 GB 4. DET +4 3 GB 5. CHW/KCR +3 3 1/2 GB 7. SEA E 5 GB 8. NYY -1 5 1/2 GB

That was suffered (apparently) in that Wednesday game that we were all saying it wasn't necessary to use him...oh, well.

We'll see, there are a lot of contending teams really needing pitching help. Other than the Indians, that is. Even the Mets, with all their injuries are short (and because Wheeler never made it back as quickly as expected) an arm or two for the moment.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) Otoh something that helped mlk was that he had guys like Malcolm x as a counterbalance BLM has Obama as a counterbalance (who can't be perceived as being too "easy" on Africans-Americans, otoh he's often called an "Uncle Tom" so there's no winning no matter what he does vis a vis race relations). The theory is that Obama's moderation/centrism becomes more acceptable as result of leftist assaults. Not quite the same as the 60's, when you had the Black Panthers pushing the envelope by the time Malcolm X was assassinated...with Malcolm X (after he was kicked out of the Nation of Islam by Elijah Muhammad) much more moderate/less incendiary and King more frustrated and almost radical after his problems organizing in Chicago and Albany, GA. https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-questions-...--politics.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-amato/r...html?yptr=yahoo Guiliani has lost ANY respect and good will he built up in America after 9/11, pretty hard to do as a former top-polling candidate for president of the United States just four and one-half years ago.

Gordon Beckham hits for the cycle...that will be the historic event. Just because.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 9, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) No, he hasn't been moved because we're Hahn's not selling (unless he is ordered to do so, as he probably wants to save his job.)

Assuming Albers will be "okay" from here on out, it's probably easier to assume that Ynoa will produce the same... The issue then, isn't Ynoa, as much as the fact that Ventura has almost nobody he can trust with a tie game or 1-2 run deficit when it's the six or seventh inning from the RH side. Theoretically, it's Jennings (who can produce in that spot, albeit isn't RHed despite some contrary splits), but Ventura still hasn't figured out how to use him the most effectively, YET.