caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 06:54 AM) Jump on the Cubs bangwagon, assuming you are a civilian. I don't think anyone will miss you. I think you have been watching too many blue movies...besides, you are the one who keeps on praising them for attendance/support compared to Sox and Indians' fans.

That's what happens when you have the #1 farm system in baseball. Fans, even civilians like Andrew Berlin, get super-motivated to jump on board. Meanwhile, the Sox ship is foundering on the rocks because JR was unwilling to sell to someone willing to put 5X as much effort into running things. We hear from JR once a year, if lucky. With Berlin, he's super hands on and gives instantaneous feedback to his customers in South Bend. Some of that would change as a big league owner, but not the vision and commitment. It's also yet another reason Cubs' prospects are excelling while we're seemingly treading water at best. Near-sighted.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 09:30 PM) So they alienated fans by trading a free agent to be Sabatthia in 2008 when they were 13.5 games out in July and got Brantley, traded a free agent to be Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez in 2009 when they lost 97 games and got Carassco and Materson. and traded Jhonny Peralta in 2010 when they lost 93 games and he was going to be a free agent. I guess then the idea of trading Sale or Quintana would only alienate the fan base, so I am sure you are against it. Or pretty much trading anyone of substance even if they have 2 months left on their contract. What is bizarre is after 2007 their attendance dropped when every baseball fan knows you get a bump the year after. It continued to drop until 2011 when all those guys were gone and it rose almost 500k. A generation? It was 7 years of having a stacked team.as soon as that team sprung a leak, they fled. That isn't a trait of the best fans. Do you make up as much garbage in real life and assume people are so stupid they will buy it? You make things up and when called on it, instead of just admitting you are busted, you make up even more. It is really fascinating. Start using facts, not stuff you just make up. Well, if the White Sox had the ability to actually EXECUTE trades that brought back Lee/Sizemore/Phillips for Colon or Michael Brantley, maybe they wouldn't be so MEDIOCRE every year. Seeing that you're an expert on all things Cleveland, all those fans just KNEW 100% beyond a doubt in 2008 that all of those trades for prospects were going to work out? GREAT!!! We can just do the same thing, because that would at least give us playoff appearances in 2021 and 2023. For the first time in over a century of major league baseball, a team has traded away two Cy Young winners (Lee and Sabathia) in a row for prospects. Glad you made the point that even the BEST fans in baseball can feel alienated, as happened in Cleveland. (Because God forbid White Sox fans have never been accused of being great over even good fans). These fans just MAGICALLY fled...yeah, sure, right, that's EXACTLY what happened. And that's your logical explanation for how the best fans in baseball at that time MIRACULOUSLY became the WORST fans in baseball a generation later??? They just fled. For no apparent reason. Ask ANYONE in Cleveland if the fans were fully in support of the actions of the ownership group in 2007-2009. You will get a completely different answer. You don't have any facts either, by the way, just your hindsight to say what they did was logical and how it later worked out, but not what the process of going through that was like for the fans who had been patiently waiting for a World Series win... So...because those fans (in your theory, I guess) weren't patient enough for another rebuild, that actually has worked out fairly decently (two more playoff appearances in 2013 and 2016, so 2 playoffs in 9 years, which was about the average of the White Sox in the modern era until the last eight years happened)...they are conveniently labelled as 'BAD FANS'. You haven't once mentioned the degree of hatred and enmity which was engendered in Cleveland against the Dolans...which is completely, 100% the most important part of the story, and one you glossed over in your own little convenient bubble of truth. The irony is you turn around and consistently support the White Sox front office when they do EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, which is holding onto assets too long and/or not trading them and watching all their trade value completely evaporate. No wonder White Sox fans are completely exasperated with the present state of affairs. So, to summarize, White Sox and Indians fans=bad, Cubs' fans=good. G-RATE!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:27 PM) Again the year the White Sox won the World Series and were in first place every day of said season, they were in the bottom half of the league in attendance. Below the AL average. It will be they have to make the playoffs 2 years in a row, then 3. How did the Imdians alienate fans after the 2007 season? Was it trading CC when they were 37-51 and 13.5 games out in July? Or are you making things up again? Well, I'm sure if your favorite team just gotten to the World Series for the first time in a decade (after patiently waiting through a 3-5 year rebuilding period), only to see Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Peralta and Victor Martinez depart in quick order, you would be none too pleased. Making things up again? You know nothing about what Dolan has done to destroy that fanbase. These were THE BEST fans in baseball for a generation, they don't just give up on the franchise overnight. So try googling "Dolan hate Indians fans frustrated" and see what comes up.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) So 2009 was lower than 2008.making the playoffs didn't help theSox, but I am sure there is another unique excuse. The fact is Most fans of teams look for reasons to go to games, Sox fans do the opposite, look for reasons not to go to games, such as your suggestion of Guaranteed Rate Field being on the ticket, and ruining a scrapbook opportunity. The horror. Hopefully the higher fee being paid will cover the loss of attendees due to a name on a ticket. And if attendance is so cut and dried, why do you make so many doom and gloom attendance posts every year? Mariners...new tv contract paying them $118 million per year, added hitting stars such as Cruz and Cano, uptick in attendance, much more competitive and have a good chance at the AL Wild Card if one of the AL East teams falters late Padres...well document, won the offseason of 2014-15 along with the White Sox, but are now in a committed rebuilding period, including dumping James Shields off on the White Sox, fans have been buying into that plan and blaming owner more than GM Marlins...worst owner in all of professional sports now that Sterling is gone (I suppose Daniel Snyder would get some votes, too), well document tear downs of numerous teams dating back to Huizenga after 1997 and 2003, and then Loria's "leadership," which included a GM being demoted to field manager in Dan Jennings. They do have Jose Fernandez, Giancarlo Stanton and a decent chance at the wild card spot. Beautiful new baseball stadium. So these are the only three organizations who have done worse at making the playoffs. All of them are sitting in better positions than the White Sox, both presently and for the future, with the exception possibly of Miami, Arizona, TB and Oakland. We're 25th in attendance, and you can argue quite logically we're the 26th best franchise in baseball, looking at current in-season results and minor league talent depth/prospect rankings. Cleveland is another situation, much like the Marlins, where the ownership group set the fanbase on fire by completely tearing down two mini-dynasties, especially alienating the fans after the 2007 season. But, at least, they hired one of the most respected managers in baseball and paid him as such. Everyone knows the Indians and Rockies routinely dueled over attendance trophies and Jacobs/Progressive set the record at the time for consecutive sell-outs (over a long, multi-year period).

Comparing us to the Red Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Angels, Giants, etc., is a pointless endeavor. It's as helpful as comparing Reinsdorf to Illich.

Yes, and that 2007 team was terrible...not to mention the last 70 games of 2006 when they were 8 games below .500. That wiped out most of the bloom from winning the World Series. Every baseball fan knows the true attendance bump comes the following season after a playoff appearance. Not during, so much.

If you (meaning most Sox fans pointing the finger at the fanbase) didn't have such a connection to the Cubs and the last 20-30 years of their history...the White Sox would seem like any perfectly normal franchise in a decade long downturn, with fans acting accordingly. Outside of the Cubs and Cardinals, there just aren't any similar franchises whose fans support the team year after year, regardless of the results on the field. And even that started waning the first 2-3 years of the Epstein/Hoyer rebuild. The only other one that comes close is Milwaukee...to a lesser extent. (This can be mostly explained away by a commissioner of baseball for two decades making decisions to advance the interests of his daughter's franchise, especially the new stadium.) Instead of having anomalously bad fans, we are the normal condition that only seems or feels or is perceived to be an anomaly for the worse because of the Cubs and how the product on the field never mattered to their fans because so many were there at Wrigley just to get wasted in the bleachers around "hotties" or take part in their annual local Rotary or Kiwanis club shopping spree/Cubs Trip leaving from Des Moines on a charter bus.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) I don't even know what your point is anymore. The White Sox also have employed players (just named two) not unlike Aroldis Chapman who were abusive to their wives....but now we're outraged when the Cubs do the same thing?

Brett Myers, Wil Cordero and Ryan Lochte Field. No publicity is bad, right? Might as well name it Trump Field...then he could sue and they would be in the news for months and months. Pure brilliance.

http://hoopshabit.com/2013/03/27/top-10-wo...mes-in-history/ The Cow Palace, Salt Palace, Amway Arena (at least connected to ownership group) and Sleep Train Arena/Power Balance Pavilion are the only ones that even come close. And those aren't markets that are anything similar to Chicago.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:48 AM) caulfield wont take a girlfriend there because the name is on the ticket! Obviously they could care less what anyone thinks...and I'm married anyway. But imagine going on your first date and your gf keeps the ticket stubs as a memory in her scrapbook and the first thing you read in big bold letters is Guaranteed Rate Field. It's bush league.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:16 AM) Eh, you can rationalize this all you want, but you are still missing the essential truth at the base of it all. If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you. If they were investing your retirement funds this poorly, would you still keep piling in bad money after good in blind faith and hope it eventually has to turn around? Isn't it reasonable for Sox fans to do the same...to at least expect to have a clear decision-maker in charge who is accountable for performance? Even the best mutual fund manager in history...who beat the S&P Index an improbable thirteen consecutive years (like the Braves' playoff streak)...was rewarded with less than half the rope that KW and Hahn are being extended.

I don't think it will be easy to market a guaranteed 20 game loser in the offseason to other GM's or their own dwindling season ticket base....

QUOTE (Donaldo @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:48 PM) I agree with your point, but I think you're selling a few guys a little short. Mike Morse hit .276 with 104 HR and 352 RBI over his 12 year career. He was a pretty solid player; sometimes you have to give up something to get something. Olivo wasn't a great catcher, but he was pretty good (both offensively and defensively). The M's also sent us Ben Davis, a good defensive catcher who couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. IMO, both sides benefited from that trade. Gio Gonzalez and Fautino de los Santos for Nick Swisher... BAD TRADE Kip Wells, Sean Lowe, and Josh Fogg for Todd Ritchie... BAD TRADE Shouldergate was a disaster for both teams (IIRC, Toronto GM Gord Ash actually lost his job over that trade). You're forgetting Ryan Sweeney, who was a serviceable bench player amid occasional bursts of starting glory throughout his career. He did enough to attract one last payday from the Cubs.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 12:35 AM) My GF doesn't follow baseball. Doesn't follow the Sox or Cubs. Doesn't know anything about naming rights. She's the least knowledgeable person about sports I believe I've ever met When I told her about the new name for the south side baseball "stadium", her response was..laughter Then. "That is really ridiculous" Is she a troll? Can't imagine buying a girlfriend or date tickets as a gift that read "Guaranteed Rate Field" across their face in bold. Makes it look like you're a Cheap Charlie.

"Guaranteed Rate Field? Stay classy White Sox. Oh that's right. You're not." Direct quote from someone who almost NEVER razzes me about the Sox and didn't even comment as we descended from first to fourth place this summer. https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/white-sox-...-211443685.html Barstool Dave has now made it big in the UK...

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 11:32 PM) This is just another opportunity for trolls to try to spin this in some negative way. The fact is that naming rights have been around as long as inflated player salaries have been. Look around ANY major league ballpark and see signs for WINTRAUST, NUVEEN, Budweiser, XFinity,... plastered on everything in and around the ballpark. It's just part of the business. Fans don't have to call Sox Park anything but Sox Park or Comiskey. I certainly won't. This is why this board is currently so polarized. The few remaining defenders of the Kingdom, and the barbarians at the gates. Calling out 90% of those who are expressing displeasure with this as "trolls" is a bit much. It could be worse, like Enron or Theranos or a company so disreputable, you wouldn't want a professional baseball team associated it. Honestly, it's QUITE difficult to think of a worse name for the four major sports. Can YOU? Would the Yankees or Mets go with SCORES Stadium? That at least would have an association with baseball and scoring runs, which is still eminently better than G-Spot Stadium. O.Co is close, but at least it's not a name that will be "used against" the A's in a negative way if they should continue to founder, not in the same way those down arrows (and the Brooks Boyer quote even, when the pitchers have an ERA of 5+ next April) and the idea of anything in the world being "guaranteed," it's just going to be used to make the White Sox a laughingstock yet again...which seems to be the theme now of this entire season after the peak of 23-10 on May 6th.

How much money Guaranteed Rate is doling out for the 13-year naming rights hasn’t been announced, but the company already has some big-ticket items on its expenses list. Earlier this year, a jury awarded another mortgage company more than $25 million in a lawsuit that alleged a former employee and Guaranteed Rate had engaged in “corporate espionage.’’ Guaranteed Rate’s portion will be $22.7 million. How about Guaranteed Rate Hike Field? “It doesn’t have that good of a ring to it,’’ Sox outfielder Adam Eaton said. “I don’t really know what to say about it. What is it called again?’’ Eaton and Sale are definitely leading the team this year in opening their mouths and saying something that will end up making the Sox look dumb....the spin going on is quite amazing, "well, I guess we can support this new name because the company was founded by Chicagoans or locals/natives, so that sort of makes it not terrible or at least okay/MEH"

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 09:31 PM) One thing wrong with your comment I'm not a JR hater. I respect the fact that he's a self made millionaire and have said that repeatedly. He's also a brilliant businessman and real estate guy. That does not make him a baseball expert or a savant when it comes to the game. We'll just have to disagree, Sox fans are smarter than that to support a garbage, s***ty franchise. They are under NO obligation, none, zero, nada to support crap just like any consumer is under no obligation to support a bad eatery, a lousy supermarket or a bad business. There is no difference especially when said team got their stadium out of tax dollars and didn't even pay for it themselves (unlike say the Giants owner who built that stadium out of his own pocket or the former Dolphins owner Joe Robbie) Want to know a big reason why the Cubs were s*** for decades? It's because they sold out every game win or lose. The motivation for ownership to spend millions to put a winning team on the field was exactly none. But again you are free to offer your opinions and I respect them. I respect the fact as well that you consistently stick to your guns. Mark It's somewhat analogous to that current GoFundMe trend of raising money for funerals/tributes/memorials. The White Sox, at least their current iteration, are more like the recent case in California where a 21 year old girl deliberately ignored the safety/warning signs and climbed over a retaining wall (that was clearly meant to protect tourists and selfie takers from falling off the nearby cliff, or coming close enough to do so)...and then she was walking along in a rocky area with rubber flip flops instead of the proper hiking/climbing shoes. It's still a tragedy, she died when she fell off the cliff to the bottom 100 feet below, but I'm definitely not going to contribute $20, $50 or $100 to her family's gofundme campaign. A lot of their struggles/financial limitations are SELF-INDUCED, to use a Hawkism. There are plenty of wonderful causes, just like there are plenty of professional baseball teams who seem to have a plan going forward, even a strategic competitive vision...but the White Sox are definitely not one of them. Just recently, the only team posters could name that MIGHT be worse than the Sox in terms of front office incompetence is the Arizona Diamondbacks. That's just not an easy sell since 2008, when families are much tighter about their discretionary/entertainment dollars. When we start talking about "feeling sympathy" or saying things like Brooks Boyer should get a raise, that's all you need to know about the current malaise, and his comments attempting to tie in lower pitcher ERA's to guaranteed low rates are beyond ridiculous when you look at the struggles of James Shields and the Sox bullpen this year...or basically any of the starters not named Q or Sale.

Can we have a "guaranteed to be mired in mediocrity" company also become a secondary sponsor? We're not THE ABSOLUTE worst...we're usually floating within 5-7 games over the .500 mark most seasons, etc. That's something to proudly trumpet to the heavens. How about a tie-in with the t.v. show "Slackers"?

Just the idea of "Guaranteed Rate" carved into actual concrete at 35th and Shields is cringe worthy. US Cellular just doesn't seem so intrusive...maybe because US at least seems or feels like it could be patriotic or something you might be able to be proud about. About the only positive I can think of is their ability to execute and leverage this agreement to also sign a NEW deal with a cell phone service provider that brings in another revenue stream. If they don't take advantage of that, you'd have a difficult time arguing the benefits financially outweigh the negatives (already discussed for multiple pages) that come with this agreement. Guaranteed Fail Down arrows... Guaranteed cheap seats they can't give away Guaranteed Dysfunction Guaranteed Bullpen Blowup Guaranteed Matt Albers Appearance Guaranteed Parking Profits

QUOTE (InTheDriversSeat @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) Cubs fans are hypocrites because the Chicago Cubs are one of the leaders with sponsorships from corporations in the financial services industry: Nuveen Investments, CBRE (Coldwell Banker Real Estate), Wintrust, etc. Apparently Guaranteed Rate is buying advertising / sponsorship directly from the Sox as well, separate from the naming rights revenue which goes to IFSA: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/197...-naming-rights/ I suspect the previous contract with U.S. Cellular prohibited the Sox from selling advertising / sponsorships to other competing wireless telecommunications companies (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc.). Having the exclusive contract with U.S. Cellular now gone, opens the door for the Sox to sell new sponsorships to U.S. Cellular competitors. This isn't the first time that U.S. Cellular has terminated naming rights at a venue. Indoor arenas at Milwaukee and Bloomington, Illinois were previously known as 'U.S. Cellular Arena' and 'U.S. Cellular Coliseum'. . Well, banks are "cooler" than savings & loans or credit unions. Not as cool as hedge funds and venture capital firms, however. On the bottom tier would have to be anything to do with real estate, especially "cut rate/discount" lending firms...it conjures up images of scams and accounting tricks such ARM's or interest only loans, predatory lending, usury, Payday loans, etc.

The class action complaint alleges that the mortgage lender unlawfully paid loan officers below minimum wage, failed to compensate them for overtime hours worked and unjustly deducted expenses from previously earned wages, in violation of state wage and hour laws. The complaint asserts that Guaranteed Rate incorrectly and intentionally classified loan officers as “outside salespeople,” making them exempt from some minimum wage and overtime regulations. However, these outside sales employees claim to have spent more than 50 percent of their working time in their homes, which the employees argue is considered the employer’s places of business for purposes of the outside sales exemption from minimum and overtime wage laws. https://www.bigclassaction.com/lawsuit/guar...lass-action.php Great, the Uber of loan companies. Will fit right in with Sox plans, schemes and off-season themes...

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:44 AM) Lol that's the best part of it. Him wanting the Sox to wait until after the draft and then acting like he wanted the Sox to sign him from the beginning. Were the Sox EVER going to give up the draft pick for him? The answer to that was obviously no. Ergo, the only possibly way they would have signed him would be the same way in which Morales signed with the Twins and Drew with the Yankees two years ago. Not rocket science. And obviously the Rangers are a much better run organization than the Sox, because they already have enough power arms in their pen and minors the draft pick is more or less immaterial.