caulfield12

It's prett pathetic that your greatest hope and aspiration as a Sox fan is that guys like Dunn, Danks, LaRoche and Shields would simply retire or at least be kidnapped by peaceful politically-correct rebel groups...

Greg would trade for LaRussa the manager and Stewart the pitching coach... Hopefully this is franchise rock bottom with Fulmer also getting ripped to shreds in AAA.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 07:29 PM) It really might be the most inept front office in baseball right now. Nothing they have done during this season has made sense. Stewart/LaRussa...we haven't stumbled to that level (yet) with Miller trade and signing Greinke too late in his career. Preller is now extremely well-supported in SD for his course correction.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) That was a trade that had to be made according to you. Now you can't even let it go. Change your name to Trump. Filibuster? And yeah, it had to be made because the White Sox essentially gave up on him...that was pretty obvious. Just like they did with Micah Johnson after hyping him heavily for two plus years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 19, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) So has Jose Abreu. Most objective observers consider him a 1B in the same way Frank Thomas was one...it's one of the main reasons he's been at negative overall value for most of the season, and why his trade value is down dramatically. He has to be an 850-875 ops hitter to justify that below average defensive. And Semien has almost doubled Abreu in homers from a "defense first" position, although the overall offensive output from SS has improved dramatically over the last two years due to the injection of young talent at that position around the majors.

A league average SS or better than average 2b is worth a lot more than a short reliever unless that reliever is close to elite (Miller, Herrera, Betances, etc.)

The Cubs didn't have a hand in that one...

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 09:52 PM) Hell yea. Screw the service time argument, it's not relevant. The Sox plan to contend next season so let's see if Mr. Fireballs can anchor a critical spot in the pen. Looking like the Samardzija for Burdi trade might be a winner. Sure, if he can give you 3+ war per season like Semien...how it can already be looking like a winner when he hasn't thrown a single major league pitch is pretty farfetched.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/08/18/dave-s...&yptr=yahoo There seems to be a more incompetent (sorry, Greg) front office than ours...AZ, with Dave Stewart and Tony LaRussa. Keith Law apparently is going to war with them, and it's happened before with him and TLR. http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2012/09/17/tony-l...inst-keith-law/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0818-story.html And Ranaudo gets to make another start...

MLB Daily Dish already had their "GM Ratings" with Hahn 29th or whatever and had Ventura as one of the six obvious coaches on the hot seat. Every single article about managers from now until the day he is notified of his fate will mention Robin's name. Quite a few are speculating on Scioscia as well.

Wait, the Score hired a Brazilian broadcaster? Halomes? I presume it's still Lawrence Holmes...NBA insight extraordinaire. Yet another blown save for the White Sox bullpen. Broken record. Glad I didn't change my GoT reference below...still appropriate.

Let's just put it this way. What have we seen out of Fulmer this year in the majors that should make us believe he'll be a future cog in the rotation? Dick Allen says Burdi will end up in the mid to low 90s at the end of games as a starter, potentially...ignoring that guys such as Sale and Rodon routinely throw 96-98 mph late into games when they really need to. But is Fulmer even capable of sustaining 92-93 mph for more than 3-4 innings with that high effort delivery? Whenever I watched him, I was hoping he would be the DL the next day and there would be some minor physical reason as the explanation for how he went the baddest NCAA pitcher to Tyler Danish in 12 months.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild. Hard to say. Since we're flailing away under .500 yet again, with a future HoF...we need to poach Mike Scioscia away from the Angels or extend Ventura's contract another 2-3 years. After all, he's the one who mentored Maddon and is dearly in need of a change of scenery...and the White Sox are dearly in need of a real general, not one who fills out a Myers Briggs survey and impresses KW. Really, it makes perfect financial sense. That, some duct tape and baling wire buys the Sox another offseason before the fans completely turn on the organization. Instead of the next Bonifacio or Duke, it's much easier to sell the stabilizing influence of Scioscia. Plus those two managers in the same town!

Swisher and Javy weren't past their prime vets or close to future Hall of Famers, either...

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) These guys aren't 12 year old kids. Do you really think a manager has that much influence over the way a guy whose been playing baseball for a minimum of 15 up to 30+ years? Come on. The difference between the best managers in the game and the worst is maybe a few wins a year. And besides, how the hell do you know what goes on in the locker room? For all you know Ventura could be preaching the kinds of things you're saying day in and day out. Are you honestly advocating benching a guy like Adam Eaton because he doesn't run out one ground ball? So Hahn and KW will/should fall on their own swords to preserve Ventura's managerial position? Great. At least it would be a direction of some sort.

That's great advice from a future Hall of Famer... Twenty years from now, and certainly no later than twenty-five, he will invariably, no, inevitably, join the ranks of Leyland, LaRussa, Cox and Torre.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 10:05 AM) Sox traded Santiago, a guy you valued as a top of the rotation starter who turned out to not be a top of the rotation starter for Adam Eaton, a guy who might put up a 6.0 WAR this year. Outstanding trade. Post of the Year. Give Hahn and KW lifetime extensions. Between this year's draft and the Sale/Q contracts and 2005, thry're set for at least another 3-5 more years before you give up defending them. You've already started to tip in that direction this year in recent months (along with a number of mods), but just enjoy playing devil's advocate too much. You're actually better off attacking Cooper and wondering where all the anti-Steverson outrage is...probably something to do with him being invisible AND not a former Sox player and not involved in the Guillen/KW/Coop circus/spy ring. But...because you're anti-Balta too, you're now suddenly defending the Sox recent history of developing pitchers. Fun stuff.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) No its not. But most run hard to first. Not like it used to be with the team when not many people complained. Back in the mid 00s, I read an article quoting a scout how they couldn't get White Sox players times to 1B because no one busted it down the line. For the most part they do now, but again, you see that all around baseball. If you are hanging that on a manager, you are going to have a hard time finding a guy to manage your team. Dye, Thome, AJ, Konerko, Everett, Lee, Thomas, Crede.....all virtual speed demons. They often hit the ball over the fence, so no need to run, actually.

The Yankees did what any team in their position at that time with in-demand veterans would have done. It was long overdue, and turned them into thev#3 farm system in baseball, to go along with their virtually unlimited financial resources. Good position for them by 2018.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 09:53 AM) It's just funny you don't mention Hector anymore with his 4.80 ERA and his well over 5.00 FIP, or Finnegan who is in the same boat, and even the Reds are thinking back to the bullpen.. If the White Sox traded away Santiago and the equivalent of Finnegan, let's say Fulmer...and actually got anywhere close to the playoffs, that would be great. As long as one team or GM buys into the hype, you have a trade partner. Besides, Cueto was about as good as Hector Santiago with the exception of two key post-season starts that rescued his legacy from terrible disappointment to....still not invited to the White House. Not to mention the Cubs, Cardinals and Pirates all can hit a little bit.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 09:44 AM) But you have told us many times Hector Santiago's floor was a #3 starter. And you said Danny Duffy wasn't very good at all and Ubaldo Jimenez was the prize of the free agent class a couple of years ago. Then you'll come back with something about Puig, and around and around it will go. Have at it. Whenever you make those comments, these pitchers invariably throw multiple shutouts against the Sox. Besides, going by your philosophy, pitching to a 10-7 record on two of the worst teams in the American League, he'd be 13-5 with the White Sox and contending for a Cy Young. He's a valuable and MUCH cheaper version of our innings eater, James Shields. At any rate, compare his 10-7 with Rodon's record. Isn't he our #3?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) It's time to start going after the bolded, because I think there's now a strong case that this organization is resting on reputation alone in terms of developing pitchers. Go back 5 years, and they developed 2 very good starting pitchers. They deserve all the credit for that in the world, those 2 guys are strong, but they're literally carrying this staff. They haven't developed a successful, mid to top of the rotation starter in 5 years. Had it not been for the contract Chris Sale signed he would be a free agent at the end of this year. They have a solid rotation because of one of a handful of positive things Rick Hahn did for this franchise - locking those 2 starters up early. Overall though the picture at the big league level is bleak. The Sox have a slightly better team ERA than Detroit, but Detroit has a slightly higher team fWAR from their staff. Cleveland has a significantly better team ERA than the White Sox. The White Sox's supposed plan was to develop enough pitching to have that carry them, right? Well 3rd best staff in the division doesn't get you there. And that's not without throwing substantial resources at the staff. They signed a big money closer. They took on payroll in adding a pitcher this year. And they have invested 2 top-10 picks in their rotation the last 3 years. Look deeper and you'll get even more concerned. They clearly had no idea where Rodon or Fulmer were going to be this year and overestimated how ready both of them were. They could still turn things around, both are young, but so far these guys are mediocre starters with good fastballs that the White Sox haven't developed as fast as they insisted they could. They made decisions this year expecting both would be strong contributors and they were clearly wrong. Someone in this organization that is supposed to know pitching told Rick Hahn that James Shields was fixable or had something left. They spent big money on Robertson and he's underwhelmed. They also have little to no depth in their starters. Take a look at the guy going last night. There isn't much in the pipeline right now that can step in when someone goes on the DL or someone struggles, other than a replacement-level/waiver wire acquisition. There is no one about ready to break in from AAA. What else have they developed over the past 5 years? Maybe you give them credit for guys they traded away, Santiago Bassitt and Montas, but those guys have had a lot of work done by other organizations too. If pitching is supposed to be the thing they're trading away to build up the rest of their roster, they have a pretty weak roster and they still have pitching needs. This could turn around next year. There's talent in Rodon and Fulmer, James Shields could find his previous self, and Hansen could darn well be the next Scherzer. The investment they've put into finding pitching could pay off. But as of right now, this is a team that hasn't developed a mid-rotation starter or back of the bullpen pitcher in 5 years. This is a team where we're not supposed to question their pitching development, but they have major needs of starting pitching and relief pitching. They're separated from having the worst rotation in their division not by what they've developed, but by contracts that guys signed. They're resting on reputation right now. Don't forget Guerra, Devenski, Harrell...Montas is one of the few legit success stories, then you really have to go back to Hudson and relievers like Reed and Santos prior to that. Let's wait to see how long Nate Jones holds up as closer. Months, rather than years...is the likely outcome, not that it will matter much for a mediocre team anyway.

Should have gone with Sveum or Sabo, haha. Steve Sax or Cory Snyder. Ellis Burks was of the few veterans who outperformed expectations.

Julio Franco? Steve Carlton?