caulfield12

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:46 PM) I still think it's only a matter of time before we get a long article on the White Sox page about Avi's potential and how hard he's working. I expect him to start opening day..no platoon. He's actually at a special Camp Beckham to work with Gordo and Greg Walker on a new flip technique down in Georgia according to his twitter feed. Making season ticket calls from special sat phone on jet.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Still think Blackmon ends up in LAA, Fowler to Cubs and Jackson to Rangers. Assuming the Cards are done...

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:38 PM) There was when the Rox signed Parra.... I hope that's dead. I was talking to Caufield12, though. He apparently thinks he's good (which...no). CarGo was basically MVP the second half. Coming into last year, they were looking at eating salary. Same with LA and Ethier. Situations change. I never loved CarGo, but the preservation of Anderson/Fulmer has to be a big part of the equation. In reality, it's Blackmon or Dickerson anyway...

The only way I'm blaming anything on Hahn is if he convinced JR that one of the Big 3 would be realistic options before trading for Frazier and Lawrie. But the only pertinent remaining question is how much do they have left to spend before the season and for who exactly. Adding Fowler, Jackson or Desmond alone won't move the bar with fans, so they'll just have to hope this team can make it to July in competitive fashion and not completely whiff like our non-moves last season. Otoh, sacrificing a draft pick when you convinced everyone you would only do that in special circumstances...just double down on two draft picks for the price of one (since you keep the high first rounder) and roll the dice. Fowler/Desmond, Jackson/Desmond or CarGo/Desmond gives you three realistic options that puts you back ahead of the Tigers and Indians.

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:15 PM) What is Desmond going to cost? Realistically? Similar to Fowler...maybe a notch higher. $42-48 million for three years...or a bit higher on a one year deal, which is not the best move for the Sox because they need him for two years. Something surely will go wrong with Lawrie, Anderson, Frazier or DH.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:13 PM) Eaton CF Cabrera LF Abreu 1B Gonzalez RF Frazier 3B Desmond SS LaRoche DH Lawrie 2B Avila C For a $150 million payroll, which would be about $5 million above KC and well behind Detroit. No doubt that's the most fearsome line-up if you can keep Cargo healthy.

Greg's comment and someone typifying Avi's bat as serviceable are starting to scare me...the Sox pr campaign is starting to take find some buyers.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:09 PM) Signing Desmond and trading Avi and Adams for CarGo. I think that would work. Now you're at between $30-35 million in additional salary (along with a lost draft pick)...it certainly works, but would JR agree?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) God knows I have too many posts in this thread that were anti-Cespedes, but for those that wanted him....would you have been ok with paying him 27.5? Only if you could guarantee a 5-6 war season. In other words, no. The Mets' situation coming off the surprising World Series appearance is different than ours...and they can't afford him long-term. Not to mention they have the ability to trade Harvey (assuming he remains 100% healthy) to replace Cespedes.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:58 PM) I won't be all that surprised when Avi puts up better offensive numbers than Cespedes next year. I'd sign Jackson, move Eaton to left, and Melky to DH. Desmond, I really have no opinion on him and don't care if they sign him , or not. I'd just as soon let Saladino and Sanchez battle it out for SS. Seriously?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) What is with all the fascination with Ian Desmond on here? He is the type of player that the Sox should be avoiding. He's the opposite of Cespedes. Great/underrated player at most important position on the field in the prime of his career. Buy low instead of overpay. Clearly was affected by off-field issues last year. If Marcus Semien is 8th, he's top five if he plays like the previous seasons...you have Correa and Lindor, Crawford, Bogaerts...aging Tulo and Andrelton Simmons.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:49 PM) I think it's more likely the Cubs get Fowler than the Sox do. Cubs will also probably trade Hammel to free some money. Guess it also depends how confident they are in Kendricks and Warren, too. With the crazy pitching contracts, seems anything is possible (not eating any of Hammel's salary) except for the White Sox dumping Danks.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:47 PM) Does Austin Jackson cost a pick? Nope.

Soler or Baez for pitching to TB and then Fowler coming back makes too much sense... Plus Soler upped his value a bit with that flash of potential in the post-season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:40 PM) Where did the notion come that Desmond is bad on D? Looking at his error total in isolation, especially the first couple of months when he was surely distracted by the overhanging contract negotiations. This is the same player a year ago who would have broken the all-time Sox recorded contract offer by nearly $40 million. He has some game.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:37 PM) If the Sox really wanted to, I think they can get Desmond & Fowler for under 27.5 million for 2016. The problem is those two draft picks are arguably worth another $20 million in short/long-term (draft pool and lost cost-controlled WAR over time) consequences historically. Unless you just assume that the Sox don't have another Adams selection in them. Hostetler deserves the benefit of the doubt. But, as I said, if they do sign one, go for it and sign both...pick a direction, any direction will do.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:35 PM) Nats did a great job upping the price. And the Orioles with Davis and the deferred money idea...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:30 PM) Thankfully the situation is the same and they haven't spent any more money since the Tanaka offer so things are all still the same. Except all the free agents from last year are nevertheless a big part of the evolving pr narrative being spun for avoiding the market now...

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:45 PM) Given how the last month has gone, we will surely see a tweet soon by Nightengale saying Sox won't give up draft pick to sign FA. Didn't we already have that idea with everyone but Gordon/Upton months ago? What changed? Rumors of interest in Fowler and/or Desmond recently?

If he clearly wanted to go to the Mets all along, they should have done their due diligence and started negotiating with Fowler, Jackson, Desmond, etc., days ago. We'll see if that was the case or not...if they really believed they were playing poker and the market was forced in their favor or direction.

The three year/$65 million offer was out there for days. Obviously Hahn wouldn't give an opt out after one year and/or wasn't willing to go up $70-75 million for three years. Maybe they did and he still wanted to stay in NYC, perhap we'll never know other than some vague platitude that our offer was attractive/competitive blah blah. Meanwhile the Mets get another contract year drive and mitigate the long-term risks...not $150 million for six, but that was never realistic anyway.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:38 PM) You have actually said both the Royals and White Sox are in 2 year windows. It wasn't obvious Cespedes was lost 4 days ago when you started that thread.In fact there was growing optimism the Sox were becoming the front runners. Clearly losing Hosmer, Cain, Moustakas, Wade Davis, Escobar and Volquez will have the same exact impact as losing Lawrie, Frazier and Cabrera. Without any more additions the White Sox do essentially have a two year window...with 2017 the make or break season. If they miss the playoffs two more years, will they really blow up the payroll to $140-150 million in 2018 when they won't do it now? Why? The difference is the White Sox aren't all-in...they're hedging their bets and in risk-mitigation mode which is great for team profitability but not so much for the fans.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) Does anyone realize in one thread you started you said to never give free agents more than 3 years or overpay.In this thread you think the sox need to pay up to sign Cespedes, And in another thread you started, you said it would be smarter to sign Desmond and/or Jackson. Of course you started the never give more than 3 years when you thought the sox were going to get Gordon for 4 years.Started the Desmond/Jackson thread when you thought they would sign Cespedes, and now said sign Cespedes when you think there is no chance they sign him. I never thought the White Sox would sign Cespedes...we were, nevertheless, somewhat led to believe that and nobody with the White Sox ever corrected that notion until the past couple of days of Avi fluffing. But obviously I am the only person considering all the options and backup plans and contingencies....Hahn would never do that, right? And nothing in the offseason is ever fluid or the product of changing circumstances...if they don't get Cespedes, clearly no other moves are possible. They will just jump off the roof when they realize their scheme wasn't successful to get a steal of a deal with him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) Does anyone realize in one thread you started you said to never give free agents more than 3 years or overpay.In this thread you think the sox need to pay up to sign Cespedes, And in another thread you started, you said it would be smarter to sign Desmond and/or Jackson. 1) For the 500th time, that was for the Royals...because the situations of the two teams are exactly identical! 2) For the 500th time, Cespedes at no more than four years and no more than $100 million. 3) For the 500th time, Desmond and Fowler if they aren't costing draft picks. When it recently became quite obvious Cespedes was lost and they were looking seriously at Fowler, that's the only time it makes sense because you throw away one draft pick you might as well double down and throw away both...like last year. The first round pick is the important one. And it's not like they are investing all that money into signing a blowout Latin American class.

Which is yet another reason for the White Sox to strike now... The Phillies will be one of the teams pushing the envelope to be at least competitive in 2017. That fanbase won't be patient forever, although they did change GMs and managers so that buys them at least one year. Carlos Gomez, Rasmus, maybe a 37 year old Bautista and Josh Reddick. Being chased by twice as many teams as today. Sounds like fun.