caulfield12

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 12:47 PM) With the context that most pitchers throw harder in the playoffs, it might be. Weather in NYC was pretty bad. Harvey's velocity was down a bit as well if I remember correctly. Other than Arrieta, wouldn't read too much into it. With Lester, he's going to be more and more erratic as his career wanes.

Wieters is the clear upgrade but likely out of price range unless they decide to go with just one major addition. Norris, Hedges, J. Castro, Lucroy, AJ Ellis/Grandal, Red Sox, Yankees, Barnes...the usual names and options will come up.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 02:35 PM) Give me a do-over on this thread. I didn't realize Salvy was a stiff or at best just another guy. My bad. Greg, use your brain and don't cave so easily when rebutted.

And if you take into consideration his age, leadership abilities, overall performance the last three or four years and especially his contract which is $7 million for five years, he's a top 3-5 catcher in the game. Gomes wasn't healthy this year for most of the season, he's probably better offensively...but you also have to take into consideration the positive effect he has on Volquez, Ventura, Herrera, etc. Having a bi-lingual catcher really helps. He's the bridge in that clubhouse between Latin America and the rest of the team, like Juan Uribe was for the Sox. The best teams have strong leadership...a coach on the field...in that position. Guys like Posey and Molina, as well as Martin once he had his career resurgence in Pitt and matured. McCann was garbage last year and is hugely overpaid. Cervelli has to prove he can do it consistently year after year. Perez has the most favorable contract in baseball, like we always hear about Sale and Q. Other than Posey, for that franchise, there's nobody who fits better (and considering salary as well, you lean towards Perez for overall value as well). Lucroy has his flaws just like Perez does, and he's relatively unproven in postseason play. Salvy also had the biggest clutch hit in the Royals' season last year against the A's in the wc game. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/yea...ARBR/order/true In 2014 he was 6th in war. You have Lucroy, Martin, Posey, Mesoraco and Gomes ahead of him. Mesoraco looked great and fell apart last year with injury problems. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/yea...on/c/sort/WARBR 2013, sixth again. Castro and Wellington Castillo appear here. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/yea...on/c/sort/WARBR 2012, 8th in war. He has consistently been one of the five or six best overall catchers in the game over that period.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...le41120313.html Good story on Zobrist growing up in Kansas City and Eureka High School in Morton, IL. Didn't realize he was such a strong Christian.

Why are we trading our second best position player who is both young AND cost-controlled? Are we honestly expecting to pick up a much better option at SS, 3B or C...for Eaton alone (operating under the assumption you only trade a CFer/leadoff hitter for someone at an even more premium position)? Then we're also basically going to have to acquire a leadoff hitter from that SS we do bring in (if Alexei doesn't have his option picked up), to replace Eaton. Why would Ben Zobrist come to the White Sox (besides his local ties) when he would be leaving a history of playing with mostly playoff teams? If David Murphy's going to get $12-13 million, I wouldn't be shocked at all if someone paid Zobrist $30 million for two years. We've talked about only having $10-20 million (depending on whether we keep Alexei) to spend this off-season. Bringing in Ben Zobrist is something teams like the Yankees, Cubs, Rangers, Red Sox, Angels, Astros, Dodgers, Twins, etc., will want to do, where he's that one extra piece to put them over the top. Same with the idea of him returning to the Royals, especially if they Gordon and Rios are both gone, you would be replacing three positions for next year (they'll have to dump Omar Infante at some point).

So basically, we should be blindly optimistic because Fangraphs is often wrong...and therefore, it means the White Sox are likely to be in playoff contention as a result? Actually, with those projections underrating the White Sox due to the "Herm Schneider/Cooper Effect," of keeping the team healthier by far than the median or average, you might want to argue that the odds of the White Sox having nearly 100% health next year aren't that great. (Almost everything went right, with a couple of players missing time here and there, Sale being the one who might have been affected the most in the first half because of the foot...and Nate Jones unexpectedly returned, for example.)

Twilight and Hunger Games, for the younger crowd. Harry Potter definitely has to be up there, because of the world-wide affinity for the books. The Fast & the Furious fandom, maybe not AS passionate, but it's almost unprecedented to have a movie series go so long and be so profitable...in the middle sinking to Lucas Black and nearly straight to DVD, and then come roaring back again to be one of the biggest current franchises out there. Maybe the Paul Walker tragedy is also driving interest as well. James Bond, although, once again....passionate fans? Maybe of Sean Connery and the classic Bond films. Transformers has also been incredibly successful from a profitability and box office standpoint, but the passion is more confined to the younger generation who are enthralled by all the toys and doesn't extend quite as much to adults. Even all the comic book movies (especially Marvel)...Avengers, Spider-man, Batman, fall a bit short.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 06:51 PM) I would like to see Robin with some legit talent. All of the players we brought in last year via FA and Shark were definitely paid or expected to be legit talent. Even Bonifacio was paid like it, for his utility role. Unless they're willing to trade away significant pieces, legit talent costs $75 million and up in the FA market. Or you're looking at guys like Daniel Murphy, Dexter Fowler, Parra, Pearce and Austin Jackson who may or may not (more likely) be justified in their artificially inflated "leading second tier" prices. If we signed two of those five guys, would anyone argue we had brought "legit talent" into the organization? Probably not. They would be saying we're just "being cheap" and actually increasing our downside risk by overpaying for 2nd/3rd tier talent that won't even get the team much more than 78-82 wins if everything breaks right.

Heck, Curtis Granderson was someone nearly everyone wrote off and now he's four games away from a World Series title. Plus, you have the whole Chicago connection. It's just a matter of finding the RIGHT veterans. San Diego brought in Shields, Upton and Kemp and it was a total disaster. Just throwing money at an Upton or Cespedes without knowing exactly what you're getting, their attitude/effect on the various teams they have played for, there are so many intangibles. (Yet all three of those guys have had post-season experience, unlike, say, Adam Dunn.) For example, David Robertson was a guy who almost had a pristine image, and overall it seemed his time with the NY Yankees and the expectations that brings with it...are net positives, but as a closer with a limited impact on the action, you don't have the overall opportunity to "lead" a team like a position player (Sal Perez/Alex Gordon) or starting pitcher (James Shields). There's definitely more certainty about Gordon, Heyward and Zobrist in terms of predicting exactly what you're getting...than maybe Upton, at least in my mind. That said, it would be shocking if the White Sox THIS offseason were offering any contracts over $75 million, let alone $100 million.

At least there wasn't the usual bromide about getting car-jacked or jumped in the "war zone"-ish South Side. The funniest part of this whole thing is that there are pretty good number of posters at SoxTalk who know the Cubs better in and out (both majors and minors) compared to the 80% of fans who kind of just discovered the Cubs and jumped on the bandwagon over the last 3 months or so when it became apparent they had a good shot at the playoffs again.

Might not want to include this in the season ticket renewals package...

In the end, the White Sox will be afraid to trade Sale due to a potential fan revolt at the return (see David Priceto TB with 1 1/2 years remaining) so that will never happen under Hahn or Williams. A new GM, maybe? I will bet a house that he isn't dealt, and certainly not to the Cubs. The White Sox will make the "safer," more conservative play of trading Quintana and the fans will still be expecting a lot more than they ultimately receive. The White Sox under KW almost never have traded either a starter or position player at peak value. Relievers like Reed and Santos, yes, but the return on Reed was laughable. Hector Santiago was barely a fifth starter to many, so it's difficult to call him a core member of the starting staff in retrospect just because he's done pretty well in LA. So trading Eaton or Abreu are equally unlikely. KW just doesn't roll that way.

1. The Royals have expressed interest in signing outfielder Melky Cabrera, but remain wary of his current contract demands, according to people familiar with the situation. Another team has emerged as the leading candidate for Cabrera’s services this week: the Seattle Mariners. Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...l#storylink=cpy Toronto initially was showing interest in resigning outfielder Melky Cabrera, but with the Blue Jays acquiring Michael Saunders from the Mariners on Wednesday night, Cabrera returning is not likely. Cabrera, according to CBS Sports' Jon Heyman, is seeking a five-year deal, and a reunion with the San Francisco Giants remains possible. Mlbdailydish.com Heyman, the KC Star's Andy McCullough and a twitter guy named Hunter Daniels have mentions or rumors of it, but it's likely the average dollars per year over four years were significantly lower than the White Sox offer, as they knew Rios and Tomas were also big risks on three to five year deals. Hence, the flexibility of only one year to Rios with an escape option which they will surely exercise to reboot and start over with Gordon also potentially leaving. They were trying to "steal" him based on his erratic performance over the last 2-3 seasons rather than pay him top dollar. Obviously, the White Sox were willing to pay a lot more on average. Knowing KC, they were only willing him $40-46 million for 4 years. Nice try, though.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) Sale and Sirotka in the same breath. Now Ive seen it all. What did we get for Santos, Jenks, Humber, Crain, Floyd and Danks? Oh, that's right, pretty much nothing.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) The Cubs didn't win all those games because of Soler and Baez. Soler was replacement level, and even Schwarber only came up halfway through the year and was pretty bad the last two months of the season. So naturally we can get Rizzo, Bryant and Russell because Chris Sale is the greatest pitcher since Koufax and Randy Johnson, except when he's facing the Twins. That would still probably be an underpay by the Cubs because of the bargain contract.

QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 08:21 AM) You talk so much. Gee, maybe the website should be called Sox Silence.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 08:11 AM) Because it is. You somehow seem to fail to understand Sale's worth in your eagerness to list out all of the cubs minor leaguers that you know and here is your original quote, since you seem to be re-imagining it Basically you are saying "The Cubs dont need to give their top prospects to the Sox for a top 3 pitcher in the game. They just need to give a position-less DH, a outfielder that is constantly injured and cant play in the cold, and a infielder that might strike out more than adam dunn but he will hit some homeruns. Oh, these guys MIGHT hit 30-40 homeruns" And he might get hurt next season, like Mike Sirotka or any number of top pitching prospects that came through the system from 1999-2002. First, we actually need a DH since we don't have one for 2017-2019. I can't imagine what Cubs' fans would say about Avi if that's your overall assessment of Soler. It's amazing the Cubs even won 80 games. Finally, Adam Eaton can't steal bases, listen to coaches, he pisses off all the veteran players in the clubhouse, he never throws to the correct base and always overestimates his arm, he only looked passable in CF this season because the corners were even more atrocious and his penchant for swinging for the fences from the leadoff spot won't be quite so helpful in the future when he's sacrificing contact and infield hits for power numbers. We can find flaws in every player if we so choose. Why would the Cubs want him when he didn't show up with the right mindset at the beginning of the season?

And yet you fail to understand the White Sox are never going to approach being an average offense without adding 2-3 position players for a starting pitcher. We have just struggled through three wasted, nearly unwatchable seasons. 2016 will be another. The White Sox won't sign Gordon, Heyward, Cespedes, Zobrist, Upton, Wieters or Chris Davis. I guess we can return to this conversation at midseason in 2017, assuming Chris is still 100% healthy.

How does either Rizzzo or Matt Williams still have a job?

Six worse among qualified starters for WAR. Danks is one of them, of course. Now we get a lecture about the 92 pitchers who sucked even more but didn't qualify.

If they're gonna sign Heyward, they should move the outfield walls back to the old dimensions so we actually get more benefit from his defensive ability. Odds of it actually happening? One in 250-300.

Gee, surely we can get Bryant, Russell, Baez and Schwarber...let's do that instead. Theo's an idiot. He actually wants to put Castro back at SS with Alcantara and LaStella at 2b. Better yet, they'll also take Alexei, Beck and Avi for Soler. That's three for one baby! How could they possibly turn it down? We can even throw in Davidson and Saladino. That's a five for one bargain! It only took four to get Shark.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 07:40 AM) Ok, you did say Schwarber, but I don't see anything about Russell. So Schwarber, Baez, and Castro for Sale... still a hard pass for the Sox. No no no. It was Schwarber, Baez and Soler originally. Kyle then said that would be the worst trade in Sox history basically.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 07:36 AM) No, he said you'd have to substitute Castro for one of them, remember? So Baez and Castro for Sale. That's if if if they agreed to give up Russell and Schwarber...which won't happen anyway. That would be a salary dump, basically. There's no way they want either Castro or Baez at SS.