caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) [/b] Says the guy who wanted the Sox to pay Latos and Parra a total of $18 million in 2016. I'll take Desmond, Latos and Parra. Your GM wanted to pay James Shields $27 million. Btw, all three of those guys combined are still costing less than James Shields. You can keep your Gordon Beckham and Ubaldo Jimenez, though. I've also noticed you haven't said a single thing recently about Jeff Banister being a good manager these days, have you? Do you want me to bring back all those threads from the dead? How did that team go from terrible two years ago to the best team in baseball today, after the Cubs? Obviously, it had nothing to do with replacing Ron Washington and bringing in someone more capable. Of course, I never had any hope in the first place that the White Sox might actually look outside their organization for a coach/manager.

The other problem is you have to be able to provide at least replacement level or "somewhat" capable minor leaguers in case of injuries or non-performance. Let's forget the Andersons, Rodons and Fulmers for a moment. One of the single biggest issues with this franchise is just having someone who can step in and not put up a 500ish OPS and a negative WAR. The Jason Coatses/Carlos Sanchezes/Saladinos/Shucks/Sands of the world. Due to our lack of these guys developing in the minors....we end up with Albers/Navarro/Avila/Latos/Rollins/Gonzalez instead. It's no wonder that teams like the Indians with smaller budgets are kicking our butts. They're just more efficient in their spending/scouting/talent evaluation. Same with KC.

Well, they already tried Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson, so why not?

Except Davidson and Garcia were not "can't miss" guys. They were in the 70-100 range (I just looked up Davidson, he was #88 and peaked at #72)...but not Top 50 talents like Rodon/Anderson/Fulmer (borderline). Avi Garcia was #74. Jose Iglesias was the #9 prospect JUST for the Red Sox in 2013. Now who would you take out of all three of those players, AS OF TODAY? The White Sox occasionally have been right about prospects or guys with less than one year, like Quentin and Eaton. More often than not, they've missed by a country mile, whether it's Tyler Flowers, Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart, Avi or Matt Davidson. The Swisher trades, for example. Trading Gio Gonzalez twice. Mark Teahen. Jeff Keppinger. The list is too long to go through over and over again. A good GM, they say, is right about 60% of the time. Hahn has been right about 30-35% of the time. He's had some notable successes, but not nearly enough to counterbalance his biggest failures.

In fairness, we probably win the division going away if it weren't for Quentin's anger. In the end, yeah, we were super fortunate with the coin flip (Hahn's son), winning those three games and having the game at USCF. That was the ONLY time in recent White Sox history we actually beat the Twins. Since that season, we haven't had much of a home field advantage or the ability to beat the Royals, Indians or Tigers with any degree of consistency at all. That said, we still see the same lack of maturity hurting the Sox to this day, with Sale/Rodon hitting themselves on the head with the ball or wondering why a 91-93 MPH grooved fastball is deposited in the seats when both have the ability to consistently throw fastballs in the mid to upper 90's. Then, after giving up a homer, they'll start throwing a series of "angry" pitches.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) Not sure why this post took the tangents that it did. My point was that we have a lot of key players on this team not playing up to the levels they should. Until they do, the team is going to continue to lose. Is that the players fault? Yes. Is the manager also a problem? Yes, but that is a different post. Is the front office also responsible? Yes, but that's a different post too. Therein lies the problem...how much is it the players? Well, what did we realistically expect? 83-85 wins, right? We're on a pace for 77.5-84.5 right now. Had they gone out 10-26 and then followed it up with 23-10, everyone would be a lot more upbeat, and they'd be roughly where we expected (3rd or 4th in the division). Talk about adding would make sense. We'd be 3 games ahead of last year's pace, and 5.5 GB instead of 11. But all that false hope and then the exciting sense of immediacy with Danks/Rollins/Latos (look, the White Sox actually feel some pressure this season to compete!)...trading for Shields, bringing up Anderson perhaps prematurely, that's what caused this whole mess. Who's to blame? Manager? Pitching coach? Steverson? Buddy Bell? Scouting? Coaching? Dave Wilder/struggles in Latin America? Boyer/marketing? Hahn? KW? JR's budget? The fans? The problem is that there is no way to isolate every variable as a unique percentage out of 100 and address each one by its weighting. All these issues collectively seem so endemic or big picture at this point that changing a manager or hitting coach is really beside the point. Hence we have the "problem is talent" post. Because for every potential upside we see in Frazier/Abreu/Rodon, etc., there's always another player cancelling it out.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2...h-padres-trade/ The irony here is that Shields had two choices at the time of the Padres' deal. Guess who was #2? Of course, the Cubs and Maddon. Except for the Schwarber injury, they've been leading a charmed life. Btw, this idea of him opting out seems more laughable than it was when this article was written just two weeks ago. Third, the Padres hold onto Shields through this trade deadline, bank on him opting out of this mess (Fowler’s comments might’ve actually helped those hopes) and receive both a compensation pick for a qualifying offer and a $42 million savings over the next two years. Sigh. The Padres can certainly save some face if Shields still opts out after this season, but the White Sox will have all sorts of incentive to convince him to stick around the next three years at a fraction of his cost as the innings-eater he is. Especially if Shields helps get the White Sox back in the postseason. Predictions, anyone? http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2...en-padres-cubs/

The offense has been so bad, you wonder if a knuckleballer can make things any worse? Back when we actually had good offense a decade or so ago, the concern was always a 3-5 game mini-slump after facing Wakefield.

The problem with this theory is that those other pitchers on the market like Sonny Gray/Rich Hill, Odorizzi, Teheran...the Red Sox can find organizations that are willing to take a package of minor leaguers instead of meeting the requirement of including ONE of Betts/Bradley/Bogaerts.

St. Louis and the Cubs definitely have the blueprint for success...although the Cubs are MUCH MUCH more difficult to copy/emulate. Have you ever been to Busch Stadium and seen all the pennants/flags/retired or HOF numbers? They're not the Yankees, but that organization has been the most successful (taking into consideration payroll/ROI) in the majors since maybe the early 1980's. You could make an argument for the Red Sox, too, and the Braves, but the Cardinals don't have all those revenue drivers the East and West Coast teams enjoy...especially broadcast rights. It's always going to be harder for the Midwest/Rust Belt teams, but the Twins (2002-2010) and now the Royals have had their runs too, the Indians in the mid 90's through 2001. Tigers from 2006-2014. Pirates again in the last decade. Not impossible, just difficult. The Reds and the Brewers are probably the ones with the most in common with the White Sox right now. Some successful seasons, generally profitable, but never a really prolonged run of winning. The Mariners would be another good comp, although they're able to spend a lot more money because of their new deal with ROOT Sports.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/mission-accom...-045730341.html Very good article by Wetzel. Surely all the writers loved the storybook ending...good for the NBA/marketing, perfect fairy tale for the city after what it has gone through since 2008 and of course, Earnest Byner/Elway/Jose Mesa/Colavito, 1954 World Series, etc.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 05:44 AM) I don't understand the motivated part of the post above. I mean, he rises to the moment and gets those blocked shots and steals...but he doesn't put 100% consistent effort out there in every game on the defensive side, not even the playoffs. Jordan would step on your neck and wouldn't take a possession off defensively until the other team's will to compete had utterly been crushed. Now you can argue that he needs to reserve his energy for the offensive side, where he's more of a playmaker/distributor and responsible for running the offense in a way that Jordan never was, at least until the last 3-4 minutes of a close game.

I should have written what they SHOULD do. I'm sure there will be 2-3 posters vehemently arguing that they're only 5 1/2 games back in the division, the Wild Card race is tightly bunched, but we heard the same arguments in 2015 and the momentum last year in July was actually more positive than it's likely to be this year...and Hahn just stood pat and refused to make any decisions. They can't be back in that same exact place this July. It would be ridiculous just to keep treading water in purgatory. This time last year, we were 30-39 and 11 games back. 2016, 33-36 and 5 1/2 GB, although there are more teams now bunched in front of us in the division. KC is not as good as last year, the Indians are probably the best team and the Tigers are about the equivalent of the Twins (lots of exciting offense but lacking in spots 4-5 in the rotation and a weak bullpen.)

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 02:22 AM) Last year's team was awful, outside of Eaton, Abreu and Melky. They had 6 spots they had to improve in. They went and got Frazier and he has been an improvement over last year by a huge amount despite his recent struggles. Lawrie has also been an upgrade although he too has struggled lately. Every other position, SS, DH, RF, C...that's 4 spots of no upgrade. DH is your biggest glaring issue. That needs to be a 30 HR, 90 RBI guy in that spot. Instead we get Avi. He is just brutal. Everyone on this board wanted him gone but, nope, he is still here. I know the LaRoche thing screwed things up a bit but he was awful in his own right. SS, we went from bad Alexei to even worse Rollins. Just an awful, short sighted move. Saladino should have been given the job. Despite Saladino not being a great hitter, he was far better defensively and a rare bright spot last season after his call up because of his glove. At worse, let Saladino play until Anderson was ready. Instead, $2 million wasted on Rollins. C, we go from Flowers to Avila/Navarro. Mediocrity to more mediocrity. At least Flowers was good defensively. RF, we get rid of Avi's awful glove but then get Austin Jackson who good defensively has been pretty bad at the plate. Yeah I know Jackson is in CF and Eaton in RF, but Jackson was Avi's replacement. Jackson is a slight upgrade over Avi due to D, but really he should be a 4th OF on a good team like he was last year for the Cubs. SO in summary, needing upgrade at 6 spots and we only upgrade at 2. That still means almost half of your lineup is still garbage. There is just very little player development with positional players. I am really hoping Anderson develops and turns into something special. Until they start to develop their own talent, this will just continue on and on. You can rarely fill from dumpster diving and hope it works out. In 2005 they sort of did that letting Maggs and Lee go but they at least got competent talent back in return with Pods, AJ, Dye, Iguchi, Everett. It's like just because it worked once, it will work again. That team still developed their own guys(Crede, Rowand) or got guys super young from other teams and developed them(Uribe, Konerko) Unfortunately, they still need to develop and that's something they are awful at positionally. Melky and Eaton being terrible last year during the first two months were key factors in the Sox getting buried early. While Melky was pretty good for the remainder of the year, it didn't really matter as there were too many teams fighting in the WC space and then Shark just decided to go south after the trade deadline...and that was all she wrote. Of course, when we FINALLY get off to a good start, the first decent one since 2006/2008, we get completely buried in May/June.

In the end, LeBron is a great defensive player, when he is motivated to be...but Jordan did it consistently, on both sides of the ball. And he would never be the one I would want taking a last second shot outside of 18 feet to win the game. Of course, MJ wasn't a great outside shooter at any point in his career, either, but he worked on that aspect of his game from the time he hit the UNC campus and almost always found a way to get the important shots to go down when they were most needed. It's impossible for me to believe the Bulls at their early to mid 90's peak would have much trouble with these Warriors...

Nailed it. Been waiting a long time for some of these chess pieces to finally come together on the same board.

Except Zito was signed to one of the largest free agent contracts of that time period....and he ended up staying with the Giants for the duration of it (as far as I recall), despite bouncing back and forth between relieving and starting and largely being ineffective for most of it.

Curry wasn't 100% in terms of lateral quickness, Iguodala wasn't quite himself, they were without Bogut, and the NBA handed them a lifeline when they suspended Draymond Green for Game 5. That said, even though he didn't have the defining game-winning shot, the series was all about LeBron's overall dominance, with Kyrie Irving playing the Pippen to his Jordan.

As Mychal (Thompson) paces back and forth in his family room, LeBron is on his mind now. To Klay's father, LeBron is something we've never seen in basketball, a forward built like a linebacker with the skills of a point guard. Mychal says James has bullied his way onto his "second NBA Mount Rushmore." The first, he says, includes Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan. The second is made up of LeBron, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson and Jerry West. espn.com

Jones just doesn't have much deception in that delivery...and his fastball is pretty darned straight. As a closer, he would be similar to Reed/Santos, maybe a touch below because of the walks.

Nice for the city of Cleveland after all the suffering they've gone through. In the end, the Bulls won (since GS couldn't seal the deal up 3-1) and LeBron's career finally doesn't have the question marks surrounding it. However many championships he ends up with, he vindicated the decision to go back to the Cavs and righted the wrong he did "jilting" them like he did. The Indians and the Cubs have hope now, haha.

B Expectations were probably too high. My main issue with Rodon right now is that he almost always gets hurt throwing 91-93 MPH fastballs when he can throw 95-97 and even hit 99 once or twice today. (Seems he's trying to emulate Sale, but lacking his command...maybe this comes from Don Cooper and wasn't Carlos' idea, in order for him to pitch deeper into games). He's got TWO plus pitches in the A fastball and slider. He walks too many, sometimes his pace/rhythm gets all out of whack and he tends to really get hurt with RISP and two outs. That said, he's got two plus pitches, he's a lefty and he's only 23 still. Carlos could be a dominant pitcher if he remembers how good his stuff is and has that swagger he had the 2nd half last year and in his career at NC State. The curveball and change are works in progress, and he probably needs to choose just one of the two and junk the other. He also needs to stop leaving them up in the strike zone when he does throw them.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) Great post. My position on Shields was that if the Sox thought he could be a solid number three starter they should not hesitate to pick up whatever amount of his salary required as long as they didn't have to part with any significant talent to get him. Trading Johnson and Tatis jr. for him would have been a good move with the salary SD picked up if Shields could even perform like a decent number four starter. But what the Sox got in return is a much more expensive pitcher worse than Johnson or Danks. They would have been much better off sticking with Latos. Whoever scouts for the Sox and whoever evaluates talent for them should be fired immediately. The Red Sox have done some really smart things, besides throwing money around: Being patient with Jackie Bradley, Jr., for one. That has been rewarded. They easily could have taken the Sox route and cut bait early. They also have developed enough minor league talent (Moncada/Benitendi are two of the two 10-15 hitting prospects in the game at the moment) that they can trade for virtually anyone in the world, with the possible exception of Trout. Rangers have done the exact same thing, especially being successful in the Latin America.

GreenSox, The argument is a lot stronger that we could have won with Semien/Thompson/Montas/Desmond/Uribe or Saladino than the argument Erik Johnson would be a meaningful contributor to our rotation. This isn't Kip Wells, Daniel Hudson, Brandon McCarthy or Gio Gonzalez we're talking about. In the end, Latos actually earned his money, in many respects. It's typical we had to pay top dollar for David Robertson...will probably end up dumping him since a closer at his salary is wasted on our roster...then the player we picked (Burdi) to replace him will arrive too late to make a difference this season, when we could have signed the likes of Fowler or Desmond had we foregone that pick in the first place. So we'll have Burdi/Jones closing for a rebuilding team, and then end up trading them like we did with Reed and Santos. Of course, the returns on those two players were abysmal, one of the many reasons we're in this current predicament.

Draymond for MVP! Big 10 representing. Shumpert for best supporting actor in a mini-series. Ridiculous foul call on Curry there.