caulfield12

I should have written what they SHOULD do. I'm sure there will be 2-3 posters vehemently arguing that they're only 5 1/2 games back in the division, the Wild Card race is tightly bunched, but we heard the same arguments in 2015 and the momentum last year in July was actually more positive than it's likely to be this year...and Hahn just stood pat and refused to make any decisions. They can't be back in that same exact place this July. It would be ridiculous just to keep treading water in purgatory. This time last year, we were 30-39 and 11 games back. 2016, 33-36 and 5 1/2 GB, although there are more teams now bunched in front of us in the division. KC is not as good as last year, the Indians are probably the best team and the Tigers are about the equivalent of the Twins (lots of exciting offense but lacking in spots 4-5 in the rotation and a weak bullpen.)

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 02:22 AM) Last year's team was awful, outside of Eaton, Abreu and Melky. They had 6 spots they had to improve in. They went and got Frazier and he has been an improvement over last year by a huge amount despite his recent struggles. Lawrie has also been an upgrade although he too has struggled lately. Every other position, SS, DH, RF, C...that's 4 spots of no upgrade. DH is your biggest glaring issue. That needs to be a 30 HR, 90 RBI guy in that spot. Instead we get Avi. He is just brutal. Everyone on this board wanted him gone but, nope, he is still here. I know the LaRoche thing screwed things up a bit but he was awful in his own right. SS, we went from bad Alexei to even worse Rollins. Just an awful, short sighted move. Saladino should have been given the job. Despite Saladino not being a great hitter, he was far better defensively and a rare bright spot last season after his call up because of his glove. At worse, let Saladino play until Anderson was ready. Instead, $2 million wasted on Rollins. C, we go from Flowers to Avila/Navarro. Mediocrity to more mediocrity. At least Flowers was good defensively. RF, we get rid of Avi's awful glove but then get Austin Jackson who good defensively has been pretty bad at the plate. Yeah I know Jackson is in CF and Eaton in RF, but Jackson was Avi's replacement. Jackson is a slight upgrade over Avi due to D, but really he should be a 4th OF on a good team like he was last year for the Cubs. SO in summary, needing upgrade at 6 spots and we only upgrade at 2. That still means almost half of your lineup is still garbage. There is just very little player development with positional players. I am really hoping Anderson develops and turns into something special. Until they start to develop their own talent, this will just continue on and on. You can rarely fill from dumpster diving and hope it works out. In 2005 they sort of did that letting Maggs and Lee go but they at least got competent talent back in return with Pods, AJ, Dye, Iguchi, Everett. It's like just because it worked once, it will work again. That team still developed their own guys(Crede, Rowand) or got guys super young from other teams and developed them(Uribe, Konerko) Unfortunately, they still need to develop and that's something they are awful at positionally. Melky and Eaton being terrible last year during the first two months were key factors in the Sox getting buried early. While Melky was pretty good for the remainder of the year, it didn't really matter as there were too many teams fighting in the WC space and then Shark just decided to go south after the trade deadline...and that was all she wrote. Of course, when we FINALLY get off to a good start, the first decent one since 2006/2008, we get completely buried in May/June.

In the end, LeBron is a great defensive player, when he is motivated to be...but Jordan did it consistently, on both sides of the ball. And he would never be the one I would want taking a last second shot outside of 18 feet to win the game. Of course, MJ wasn't a great outside shooter at any point in his career, either, but he worked on that aspect of his game from the time he hit the UNC campus and almost always found a way to get the important shots to go down when they were most needed. It's impossible for me to believe the Bulls at their early to mid 90's peak would have much trouble with these Warriors...

Nailed it. Been waiting a long time for some of these chess pieces to finally come together on the same board.

Except Zito was signed to one of the largest free agent contracts of that time period....and he ended up staying with the Giants for the duration of it (as far as I recall), despite bouncing back and forth between relieving and starting and largely being ineffective for most of it.

Curry wasn't 100% in terms of lateral quickness, Iguodala wasn't quite himself, they were without Bogut, and the NBA handed them a lifeline when they suspended Draymond Green for Game 5. That said, even though he didn't have the defining game-winning shot, the series was all about LeBron's overall dominance, with Kyrie Irving playing the Pippen to his Jordan.

As Mychal (Thompson) paces back and forth in his family room, LeBron is on his mind now. To Klay's father, LeBron is something we've never seen in basketball, a forward built like a linebacker with the skills of a point guard. Mychal says James has bullied his way onto his "second NBA Mount Rushmore." The first, he says, includes Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan. The second is made up of LeBron, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson and Jerry West. espn.com

Jones just doesn't have much deception in that delivery...and his fastball is pretty darned straight. As a closer, he would be similar to Reed/Santos, maybe a touch below because of the walks.

Nice for the city of Cleveland after all the suffering they've gone through. In the end, the Bulls won (since GS couldn't seal the deal up 3-1) and LeBron's career finally doesn't have the question marks surrounding it. However many championships he ends up with, he vindicated the decision to go back to the Cavs and righted the wrong he did "jilting" them like he did. The Indians and the Cubs have hope now, haha.

B Expectations were probably too high. My main issue with Rodon right now is that he almost always gets hurt throwing 91-93 MPH fastballs when he can throw 95-97 and even hit 99 once or twice today. (Seems he's trying to emulate Sale, but lacking his command...maybe this comes from Don Cooper and wasn't Carlos' idea, in order for him to pitch deeper into games). He's got TWO plus pitches in the A fastball and slider. He walks too many, sometimes his pace/rhythm gets all out of whack and he tends to really get hurt with RISP and two outs. That said, he's got two plus pitches, he's a lefty and he's only 23 still. Carlos could be a dominant pitcher if he remembers how good his stuff is and has that swagger he had the 2nd half last year and in his career at NC State. The curveball and change are works in progress, and he probably needs to choose just one of the two and junk the other. He also needs to stop leaving them up in the strike zone when he does throw them.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) Great post. My position on Shields was that if the Sox thought he could be a solid number three starter they should not hesitate to pick up whatever amount of his salary required as long as they didn't have to part with any significant talent to get him. Trading Johnson and Tatis jr. for him would have been a good move with the salary SD picked up if Shields could even perform like a decent number four starter. But what the Sox got in return is a much more expensive pitcher worse than Johnson or Danks. They would have been much better off sticking with Latos. Whoever scouts for the Sox and whoever evaluates talent for them should be fired immediately. The Red Sox have done some really smart things, besides throwing money around: Being patient with Jackie Bradley, Jr., for one. That has been rewarded. They easily could have taken the Sox route and cut bait early. They also have developed enough minor league talent (Moncada/Benitendi are two of the two 10-15 hitting prospects in the game at the moment) that they can trade for virtually anyone in the world, with the possible exception of Trout. Rangers have done the exact same thing, especially being successful in the Latin America.

GreenSox, The argument is a lot stronger that we could have won with Semien/Thompson/Montas/Desmond/Uribe or Saladino than the argument Erik Johnson would be a meaningful contributor to our rotation. This isn't Kip Wells, Daniel Hudson, Brandon McCarthy or Gio Gonzalez we're talking about. In the end, Latos actually earned his money, in many respects. It's typical we had to pay top dollar for David Robertson...will probably end up dumping him since a closer at his salary is wasted on our roster...then the player we picked (Burdi) to replace him will arrive too late to make a difference this season, when we could have signed the likes of Fowler or Desmond had we foregone that pick in the first place. So we'll have Burdi/Jones closing for a rebuilding team, and then end up trading them like we did with Reed and Santos. Of course, the returns on those two players were abysmal, one of the many reasons we're in this current predicament.

Draymond for MVP! Big 10 representing. Shumpert for best supporting actor in a mini-series. Ridiculous foul call on Curry there.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...171001761.html# 680 career MLB ops...would fit right in.

We have the wrong Fulmer. At this point, Brad might be better. Michael definitely is.

Check out how many runs the Tigers' bullpen has given up in the last week or so coming in to today's game. Ausmus is stuck with Lowe's 10.91 ERA because of that contract Avila signed him to. He's worse than Carroll. They (the bullpen) have been atrocious, similar to the Sox in Texas or against the Royals. Plus, they're playing without JD Martinez now as well (Moya actually had 3 hits today, so that's not why they lost.) I do agree, though, that the Tigers are less likely to be patient with their "win now" team than the White Sox with Ventura. Just...because.

That's fine...when they went from 1990 or whatever year (you can start in 1993) through 2005/06/08 as one of the three winningest organizations in baseball, trailing only the Braves, Yankees and Red Sox. Even though they finished 2nd a lot (to the Twins), they at least had 2005 and most of those years were entertaining (good offense/lots of homers) or there was at least the possibility of making the playoffs still in late July (2003/2006/2010/2012, etc.) The problem is that most of the core White Sox fans that post on message boards really don't look at the sport from such a "big picture" lens. How many of you have watched a game between two OTHER MLB teams in its entirety in recent years, or gone to an MLB game in another park that had nothing to do with the White Sox? I would imagine those numbers are in the 10-15% range. For most, if the White Sox aren't playing well and/or there's no reason to get excited at all about the farm system/future prospects, they start to tune out and find other things to occupy their time. We've seen it a lot in the last three years especially, and this will likely be year 4. The problem is that it will be even more difficult after than 23 7/9ths - 10 record out of the gate to convince fans to trust in the front office again. If the situation was reversed and they started 10-26 and followed that up with 23-10, then nobody would be surprised and we'd be having the same conversation about standing pat/blowing things up/playing for draft position and whether Ventura deserved any more time as manager. Now, the crisis has reached the point where it's much bigger than Ventura. It's about the judgment and professional ability of the front office to effectively evaluate talent....within a given budget range which JR has set. The Indians and Royals and Twins have all proven to have the ability to operate within such parameters over the last 15 or so years. And the Indians might have a payroll 25% lower than ours, but at least they believe that managers matter, or they wouldn't have given Francona that much money to come on board.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) You of all people will forget to name drop Jose Contreras? He was my favorite player in 2005, so I'm not going to hold it against him. Plus, he was probably 37-38 years old by that time.

Nobody's going to claim Castillo and take on his salary. He's undoubtedly better than Shuck/Sands/Avi/Coats, though. The type of player a rebuilding team gives 3-4 months of regular playing time to earn a starting position for 2017.

When there are three "good to great" teams in the AL East, the Yankees (looking to add instead of subtract now, Sabathia's pitching great and they have the best bullpen in MLB) and TB's the worst team and they're only 4 games under .500, that's a MUCH MUCH more difficult path to have double wild cards. Those teams are going to beat each other up. And Toronto exhausted most of their top prospects for trade purposes last year, so they don't have as much ammunition (although they will go for it again with Bautista and Encarnacion on the way out). The Tigers are going to to fall back with the White Sox, and then you have the Twins. Much easier for the Indians and Royals to deal with.

See enclosed article. And it doesn't matter for three reasons, compared to the White Sox situation: 1) They should have at least another $5-10 million to squeeze in additional salary, especially with all the excitement in the city over the Cavs starting to spill over to baseball. 2) Much better farm system...they have multiple Top 100 prospects to trade. 3) They also have additional starting rotation pitching depth to trade from. The White Sox, if they want a real impact player, are going to have to take on a huge contract...it's going to be a veteran instead of "in his prime" player again, and someone his team is willing to dump due to salary issues.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:52 AM) Melky and Robertson have been good signings, I give you that. However, overall do you think Hahn and KW did a good job with this ball club from 2012- to present day? My issue is the overall inconsistencies with their plan. Or lack there of. You're pushing it with "good." Cabrera was terrible last season. He has been a good hitter this year, but has shown recently his warts on defense. I wouldn't call him a bargain for the amount of money we're paying him, especially since he doesn't hit many homers, and that's something the White Sox are desperately in need of at the moment. Robertson is "fairly paid" but hasn't been elite. He's been very good, and you can cite his peripherals, but I don't think anyone who has followed the White Sox the last 220+ games would say he's been great or elite. Since he is one of the Top 3 paid closers in baseball, that's what the expectation was. Has he solidified the back end of the bullpen? Yes, compared to 2013-14, anything would have been an improvement. Is he worth his salary when Nate Jones could have a 70-80% success rate closing at a fraction of the price for a 4th place team? Probably not.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 07:27 AM) The Indians are paying Swisher and Bourne. The Royals have about $40 million tied up into players that are doing anything. When you come up with these percentages and silly conclusions, do you even think about what you are writing? There isn't a team around that isn't going to sign someone to a bad contract. If there was, they would be a team of guys making minimum and winning minimum apparently many on Soxtalk dream. First of all, the Indians are "making do" just fine on a payroll that's ONLY around $90 million. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2...r_paul_d_6.html Look, the owner (Dolan) learned a lesson and didn't repeat it. PLEASE FORWARD TO JR!!! And it's $32 million over 2 years, so an average of $16 million PER YEAR, not anywhere close to the White Sox's $30 million. And, look, the free agents they brought in this time were/are bargain deals, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Juan Uribe. None were long-term commitments, all have played important roles. Seems pretty darned miraculous, compared to the KW and Hahn Regime. Could it have something to do with Salazar, Carrasco, Gomes, Carlos Santana, Francisco Lindor (one of the Top 3 young SS's in baseball), Jose Ramirez, Abraham Almonte, etc., all coming out of Latin America and GOOD INTL. SCOUTING? As far the Royals go, they have released Infante, costing $15 million over the next two years (and buyout), Gordon's been hurt so that's different than just completely non-performing/failing and that move was also about sending a PR message to their fanbase they would do whatever it took to retain some of their (even aging) core to show their appreciation for sticking it out through the lean years (both for Gordon and the fans). Vargas is the on the DL still because of TJ, but they're receiving insurance compensation, and, once again, you're talking about an injury. But, miracle of miracles, they've developed replacements despite trading away 7 of their best pitching prospects. They just sent down an OF hitting .317 (Fuentes) and are going to have to choose between an outfielder with a 1000+ OPS (Eibner) or 850ish OPS (Orlando) when Alex Gordon comes back next week from NW Arkansas. Basically, they have 5 rookies playing well beyond replacement level (700-1025 OPS)...and none of them were Top 10 BA prospects, other than Cuthbert at #10. We have....Jason Coats and Anderson. If you really want to to go through the entire White Sox payroll, it would be pretty difficult to get Top 50-75 pieces back for Robertson and Cabrera (simply freeing up their contracts would be the biggest accomplishment), Duke...even Todd Frazier right now.

Well, one thing's for sure, that team would be significantly cheaper and the younger core would be under control for a longer window and have the flexibility built in to make more additions. With Shields now onboard, and money already spent on Turner, Latos, Rollins and Danks more or less wasted, you're talking about a total waste of 1/4th of payroll. If your payroll is $120 million and 25%/$30 million is completely dead weight or literally not on the roster, and you just narrowly avoided another huge hit with LaRoche, who you didn't even want to come back in the first place, there's something seriously wrong in the evaluation process. No AL Central team other than the Tigers has the number of "bad contracts" the White Sox have piled up over the Hahn years. And the Tigers have the luxury of spending their way out of it. The Indians and Royals have much better prepared prospects and minor league systems to fill in the gaps when their regulars go down. We have a bunch of bargains from the latest dumpster dive, so the results of such a method of talent procurement shouldn't be particularly surprising to anyone.

LV, that might have worked 25 years ago, or certainly in the age of Veeck. Today, season ticket sales are only 20-30% of revenue for mostly MLB teams....and the White Sox are guaranteed XXX amount in state subsidies if attendance falls below a certain threshold. Finally, you have the fact that a lot of corporations buy season tickets for entertaining clients and use them as a tax write off for entertainment/business purposes...so even if you could get 50% of the individual season ticket buyers on board, you'd still have only a 25% effect from a practical standpoint. Would that be enough to lower the value of the franchise or pressure the Reinsdorfs to sell? Probably not, they'd likely be more stubborn and intransigent in the face of such a rebuke from their customers, since they always ACT like they know best anyway and aren't very much concerned with the opinions of fans on how they run the organization.