caulfield12

QUOTE (glangon @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 07:17 AM) I was going to mention poor base running but the Tampa Bay base running was as bad as ours. As for Game 2, yes there was some defensive issues, but neither Putnam nor Petricka could complete the three outs. Samardzija had worked his way out a few jams for the previous 7 innings. It was 3 outs and we get to D-Rob and they couldn't get them. I agree that we aren't benching Beckham, Flowers and Ramirez but we're also not benching La Roche and Sanchez's offense has just disappeared. Outwith Abreu and Garcia, we have nothing. Boneyfishio sits on his hands most games and when he does come in, he grounds out. Soto doesn't hit much better than Flowers and when Gillaspie does pull a pinch hit home run, rather than stick with the hot bat, we bring in a cold bat. I'm frustrated because I see three games that we should have won and instead of winning them and sweeping the Rays, we're 0-3 and facing a very hot Pirates team after another frustrating series. Part of the issue is the lack of flexibilty, we have Beckham and Boneyfishio on contracts without options, most other teams would have rookies with options who they could option down and replace them if they are struggling. If we want to freshen up our line up, we can only option down Sanchez or a pen arm or eat the money for Beckham, Soto, Flowers, Bonafacio or anyone else who is struggling, which means that the guys hitting in Charlotte can get as hot as they want, they know that barring injury, they are going nowhere. In reality, it doesn't matter what anyone in Charlotte does, unless they're serious about Kevan Smith (which is doubtful, simply because the idea of a rookie catcher with his background leading a staff to the pennant is pretty implausible, this year or next). Thompson is currently being projected as a 4th/5th outfielder. That only leaves you Leury Garcia, Micah Johnson and Saladino they'll look at when/if they trade Ramirez. What they REALLY need to do is move on from Ramirez (it's already one year too late), DFA Bonifacio (which they won't do, they'll desperately attempt to get something back for him in July or August)...and give up on Beckham. Conor can go back to playing most of the time at 3B until they find an everyday replacement at that position and SS with projected trades of Samardzija, Ramirez, maybe Quintana and Putnam/Petricka/Duke (if anyone will bite). I honestly think Beckham's better off in another organization where he doesn't carry the weight of the 2008 draft spot/Golden Spikes Award and 2009 rookie season around with him. Too much water under the bridge with believing in him, only to end up disappointed over and over and over again (yet we never learn our lesson).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 06:55 AM) This is true. And there are less than 5 teams in baseball that would be capable of putting a package together and those teams would never trade those players. Boston was always the rumored team. They are so "LOADED". I don't want their overhyped bum ass prospects though. Sale is going nowhere. Betts is already close to being a stud. Bogaerts hasn't quite become the star everyone projected, but he's not Middlebrooks by a longshot. Then there's Bradley, Jr. Eduardo Rodriguez (came from Baltimore for a certain Yankee LHR) looks like he could be legit. Then there's Swihart (catcher). They've got a lot of pieces but no idea what to do with all of them, like Rusney Castillo. So you'd ask for Moncada (probably be rejected), fall back to Swihart, Rodriguez or Henry Owens (maybe Brian Johnson), Rusney Castillo and Rafael Devers. Without Moncada, Betts and now Rodriguez....not sure the White Sox would be interested.

QUOTE (glangon @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 03:33 AM) We lost each game due to the 3 reasons that we've sucked this season. We lost Game 1 due to the Defense. We lost Game 2 due to the Bullpen. We lost Game 3 due to the Putrid Offense. All 3 of those games we could have won. All three of these games we blew due to these areas. If the defense has supported Danks properly then we'd have won game one. If Putnam and Petricka could have just gotten 3 outs, we'd have won Game 2 and if the Offense could have hit a single with any of the numerous runners in scoring position in Game 3, we'd have won that one. The Parent call on Eaton worked as he went on a tear when he was used after the benching. Now they need to do the same with Ramirez and they need to stop messing about with the pen. You forgot to add poor base running. And, let's face it, Game 2 was as much or more about Alexei Ramirez not making two plays he normally makes in his sleep. To put that loss/blown save on Putnam and Petricka isn't really accurate. Unfortunately, we aren't benching Gordon Beckham, Tyler Flowers and Alexei Ramirez. While Gordon finally broke his 0/25 slide, he also committed an error. This is merely things evening out again, it's baseball. We just went 5-1 against a first place team in the Houston Astros. We could play them 25 times in six game sets and probably would go 5-1 only once or twice. Remember, we had 4-5 huge comeback wins early in the season that didn't fit with our pythagorean numbers, suggesting our "real" record should actually be the worst in the American League. The fact is, even with Abreu, LaRoche, Melky, Avisail and Eaton, we're on a pace to score less runs than the horrendous 2013 team. That takes some doing.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:58 AM) His girlfriend held a seat. He gave her one during their first board meeting. Monica + Awkward Woman + Awkward Woman's Assistant = Revina Won't Monica just end up switching sides and joining with Richard and Bachmann...? Seems that's the only logical way to keep the show moving forward. Or Gavin Belson offers Reviga even more money than they just paid Delorean Wing Door Guy to get 60% control...but then he has to to work with Richard again?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 11:29 PM) On The Score today one of the hosts mentioned a Sale trade and said he'd be okay with a package from Houston centered around Correa. Using that basis.... I'd give up Sale for SS Carlos Correa, RHP Michael Feliz, OF Brett Phillips, and 2B Tony Kemp. Houston has a loaded system. They are one of the few teams that could do it without blowing out their farm system. I think they'd TRY to do it without giving up Correa, unfortunately. Then the whole trade would be left at a stalemate. Of course, they're also injecting another infielder in Bregman, Kyle Tucker, POSSIBLY Cameron's son (Top 5-10 talent) and the pitcher who beat Fulmer last night with Cal State Fullerton. Unless they change the rules where those prospects can be traded before June, 2016, it's going to be difficult to make a trade with the Astros.

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...ap&sid=t247 Montas still has some "baby/Viciedo" fat to get rid of...but he looks like a monster out there.

Despite a cash infusion of more than $70 million this offseason, the White Sox are on pace to score 587 runs. The 2013 club, which lost 99 games, scored 598. The offense has produced three or fewer runs 31 times in 61 games and the club is 5-26 in those games. “Sooner or later it’s got to change,” Parent said. “We’ve got to start getting some hits. We’ve got to start chasing each other around the bases. That’s what people are doing to us. We need to do it to them.” www.csnchicago.com

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:26 PM) Not me. I know Joc is doing well in the majors, but I wouldn't consider any of them "sure thing" prospects... in my opinion, Bryant is/was the only sure thing prospect this year. Anyway, I wouldn't trade a star in Sale for unproven prospects because you never know what can happen to the prospects, while you do know what you're going to get from Sale (and he's doing it on a very team-friendly contract, thus making him more valuable). Then the closest "others" are probably Buxton, Gallo and Lindor-level players. Something like Buxton, Sano and Berrios. That would be the equivalent of the Dodgers' trade, maybe a tick better if Buxton lives us to his topline potential and can stay healthy. Another problem is we're stuck with Cabrera...that removes a lot of our flexibility. In that scenario, I'd probably move Avi to DH/1B and dump LaRoche. Then Lillian would be able to return to the never-ending search for "platoon proof" LH hitting.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:22 PM) Well, I believe Colon is a natural hitter. My desire to trade everybody the Sox acquired is do-over mode. I feel like this time Hahn might really get some good young Kris Bryant-like talent for the guys I mentioned. Notice I still want the rotation of Sale, Q, Rodon, Danks which is still the foundation. Give Hahn a chance to try again by dealing the guys I mentioned and Sox might be in business. Hahn is not a dummy. Give him another chance and he succeeds IMO! He has the pieces (big names) to work with. John Danks has been terrible 4 of his last 5 starts. He's done, a sunk cost that we probably won't offload until the trade deadline next season. Building around him, you might as well expect 1984-1987 White Sox crowd support. Natural hitter? Colon? He's a nice little utility player with decent (but not great) who makes very good contact but not with much pop. Think Eduardo Escobar, more than All-Star caliber. Christian's a 729 OPS hitter in 5 minor league seasons (in two AA seasons he was at 699). He's the final (fourth or fifth) element of a much bigger trade, like the Royals made for Escobar and Cain. Notice the amount of control the acquiring team would have with Sale, versus the contractual status of Greinke at the time of that trade. At a very minimum, you need to get two position players of that level and another starting pitcher back. Then Colon...if you believe he has the ability to be an everyday SS.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 08:26 PM) Unfortunately I was one of those converts last winter. I went into the off season expecting another rebuild year and drafting more talent but in the end I bought into the idea of FA and hoping that would enough to keep the Sox in contentention. Sadly, FA has not paid off so far. In the end I think the Sox have little choice but to pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat and likely will be a name people will not want to see go. And that's baseball. I was going to comment on the Q thread but didn't want to derail it with Sale. Call me crazy but if the point is maximum return, you trade Sale and keep Q. Q can pass for a #1 in 2016 with Rodon #2. It's quite possible that Montas, Danish and Fulmer need the 2016 season for their development to have them ready for 2017. If it's a 2016 rebuild season there would be no rush for those three at all, just keep them healthy and building up those innings in the minors, hopefully Charlotte. I still prefer to keep Sale, Q and Rodon intact but I admit some talent might have to be traded to fill some holes at 3B, C, SS? 2B?. I think I'd rather trade Abreu than Sale to be honest. And who's going to pay you for 2014 Abreu, one of the top 3-5 hitters in baseball? Unless you have a reason to believe he's going to be "this version" permanently, it's better to deal Quintana (or Sale). Sure, you can move LaRoche to 1B next season and the maybe Avi or Cabrera to DH, but the problem is the extremely limited number of teams looking for a first baseman/DH right now (and they're going to be mostly AL teams, because of his defense). Compare that to the sheer number of teams looking for pitching. For example, the Tigers could definitely use a DH if Victor Martinez isn't expected to return to form and they don't care about eating another bad contract for the following two seasons...but they don't have the talent in their system to trade, even if there was a match, and I don't think many would like the idea of Abreu being paired with Miguel Cabrera for the immediate future. Essentially, then, other teams will value him as "Mark Trumbo +" whereas his intrinsic White Sox value is much higher, because he's far and away the most important hitter for the future of our offense because of his potential ability to put up MVP numbers. How are they going to easily replace those stats? It's not like 2007/2008 and there are a bunch of Carlos Quentin's or undervalued Cubans lying around to be plucked.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:05 PM) Why would you pitch to Castro there? 12th walkoff for luckiest team I have seen this year. They had no business winning tonight. The thing is, when that happens on a consistent basis, a team starts to believe in itself...whether it's "luck" or not, winning all those one run games is giving them a lot of confidence.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 08:01 PM) Incredible command. First strike to every batter but one. Who drafted him? Houston...their FOURTH guy after the Big 3.

Speaking of 86-88, wasn't Dylan Axelrod also on CS-Fullerton? He definitely pitched for a Univ-Cal system school.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 07:26 PM) Well the owner is a cs fullerton fan I believe so soxtalk.com would cease to exist. So I guess he's rooting for a 1-0 Vandy loss where Fulmer completely dominates for the rest of the game?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) Go CS Fullerton! What's the proper protocol about openly rooting against unsigned future White Sox players, haha?

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) The starter for Cal State, Thomas Eshelman, has insane K/BB ratios all 3 years in college. I would have drafted the hell out of him. Astros looking better and better...

A walk, 2 wild pitches and a balk in the same inning? He'll fit right in with the White Sox/Rodon.

Does anyone really believe the front office is going to reverse course after what they've said the last two months and put all the blame back on Ventura and the coaching staff...arguing instead that the team will experience a 2012-like turnaround just by changing the entire on-field staff next offseason? That would be a bold move, but would JR sign off on abandoning those lifetime Sox guys....especially after the Bulls'/Thibodeaux/Hoiberg fiasco?

QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 06:36 PM) Far too optimistic IMO, trading Quintana is almost a necessity as you say, but I think the toll on the rotation will be greater than you state. I also am not sure how much of a return he would bring given his "underrated" status. Therein lies the problem. Are you able to sell Quintana based on his 2012-2014 track record or the slightly lesser versions of him (and Samardzija) that have been partially brought about by especially terrible White Sox defense this season? If you can sell that he's the right fit for a contending team with the other peripheral numbers (FIP or DIP, for example), but are you really going to get the players you need at perhaps the three most offensively challenged positions in baseball in 3B, middle infield (SS) and catcher? I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to put together a highlight reel showing how a decent percentage of his earned runs that/which shouldn't even be credited to him due to mental and physical mistakes, "home cooking" road scorekeeping, balls dropping in without being touched or runners pushed into scoring position when they should have been held at 1B, poor throwing from Flowers/Soto allowing runners to advance to 2nd or 3rd base on steals, etc. Also worth noting is that the White Sox bullpen has allowed 35% of inherited runners to score, which also has to be in the bottom 3-5 teams in MLB. In other words, he's essentially the same Quintana, it's just that the White Sox have played brutal baseball behind him...and that any team with a good offense could help him to kick it back into another gear mentally, knowing he wouldn't have to pitch a game where he only gave up a couple of runs in order to be in a position to win it. Forced to pitch too "fine," as they would argue, out of fear of making mistakes rather than pitching aggressively knowing you have the defense and offense to back it up.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 05:43 PM) If that's optimism, I'd hate to see what a pessimistic view would be be like. Do you see any other way to turn around the worst offense/defense in baseball without trading away pitching? It's certainly not going out and signing Upton, Heyward and Alex Gordon.

The White Sox obviously have to improve at 3B, SS, C and add a younger/cost-controlled starting pitcher (see below)...assuming we won't just dump Cabrera or LaRoche. We have roughly 4-5 assets to get that done: 1) Samardzija, you either trade him for the highest possible return (addressing at least one of the four areas listed above)...or then offer him the QO and you might end up with a motivated #3 starter for next season pitching for a long-term contract (of course, that's what he is theoretically doing THIS season). Worst-case scenario is the draft pick, best is trading him in June/July. 2) Quintana....there's simply no choice here, you're going to have to trade young pitching to get MULTIPLE position players back and bring the offense and defense closer to league average/statistical mean. He's the only logical pitcher to trade, unless the return for Sale is so overwhelming that it makes more sense to deal him (which has often been stated is virtually impossible). 3) Ramirez...hope he improves offensively and defensively over the next 6 weeks to where you can get a decent return for him...play Sanchez/Leury/Saladino there in the second half. 4) Putnam, Duke or Petricka....see if any of the 15-18 teams competing around the majors will give you a "sell high" return on one of them, especially Putnam or Petricka...this is the one area of the team easiest to replace and the most expendable if we're transitioning into a 2 month "losing period" where we essentially are playing for a high draft pick again without announcing it Now, there's the BRIGHT SIDE. 1) You have replaced 3B, SS and catcher, as well as discovered a young, cost-controlled 4th starter. (You MIGHT have Samardzija as a motivated/more dedicated and committed #3 on a one year deal but unlikely.) 2) You're betting on offensive improvements from Abreu, Eaton, LaRoche and Melky Cabrera. That's reasonable. Progression out of Eaton and Avisail Garcia. 3) You have a rotation of: Sale Rodon ??? or Samardzija #4 acquired above Danks However, by June or July next year, you can add Fulmer. That leaves you: Sale Rodon Fulmer #4 acquired above Danks/Montas/Danish/Beck/E. Johnson It would be really exciting to see all the youngsters fighting for a pennant race and injected onto the major league roster like we saw in 2012 when we used something like 12 rookie pitchers. MAKE DON COOPER EARN HIS MONEY, haha. 4) Along with this plan, the creation of a "super bullpen" for 2016, built around Robertson and the 1-2 relievers (Petricka/Putnam/Duke) you don't trade to improve the offense/defense. To this, you can add (and one of these four will probably take Danks' spot): Montas throwing 90 MPH split-finger changes Danish's weird angles and higher velocity out of the pen Beck Erik Johnson Blake Hickman (University of Iowa...will max out his stuff as a reliever) Nolan Sanburn Nate Jones or Jesse Crain Another Top 3-7 draft pick in June, 2016 (which can also be used for a major league ready hitter in a deeper draft class) 5) Depending on how things go with the new SS, you have Tim Anderson knocking on the door at either SS, 2B or LF/RF. You have Trayce Thompson or Courtney Hawkins pushing for playing time (maybe they'll have to cut bait on Cabrera, although that will be an expensive pill to swallow). You have Micah Johnson with another year to develop at 2B, and/or Anderson (depending on what happens at SS). You have the time to experiment with Leury Garcia, Saladino, Micah and Sanchez in the 2nd half of 2015. 6) Conor becomes a bench guy (3B/1B/DH/ph) Obviously, this whole idea relies on a LOT of things breaking right. The trades outlined above. The continued development of the young starting pitchers, in particular, Carson Fulmer and Rodon. You're dealing with innings limits on Fulmer. You're counting on at least Anderson and Micah Johnson, and perhaps Hawkins and/or Trayce Thompson to make an impact. But it's probably the most realistic way of competing in the 2nd half of 2016 and then into 2017 and 2018 without dealing Abreu or Sale and totally starting over from scratch. A lot of posters are going to disagree with the trading away of Quintana, and we might not even find the right offer/s, but I think it's the best possible card to play....knowing we're going to have limited payroll flexibility, and that's assuming all those guys like Bonifacio, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers, etc., are gone.

Sanchez 0 for his last 18. And that stretch is broken. More bad baserunning. Not sure why we're so happy that Sanchez got thrown out there. Praise the effort? A hit from Flowers practically guarantees them of another week at the bottom of the line-up. The Detroit announcers will be incredulous that Sanchez is still on the roster and starting when we face them soon.

1/26 now. Parent is a genius. He even hit a fastball.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:03 AM) So let's get this straight: Eaton gets benched for not playing in. Alexei doesn't make 2 plays that leads us to lose the game, and it's not like this is the first time this happened this season. Alexei has been horrible, yet he plays. Gillaspie comes in to pinch hit yesterday hits a 2 run bomb to take the lead, AND still in on defense for the last 6 outs. This tells me he's not hurt, if he is, then Parent is an idiot. And Beckham still playing over him with a righty on the mound. Flowers comes in the game and immediately lets 2 runners steal on him, yet he plays. Mark Parent is a joke. Beckham's 0 for 25 stretch is rewarded with more playing time after Conor's homer? Yeah, that makes sense. Carlos Sanchez and Flowers at the bottom? Yeah, we pretty much don't have a clue at this point what the hell to do. Alexei gets promoted to more ab's when he is one of the worst hitters in baseball? Stop the insanity.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:54 AM) Well, you had no issue with teachers being fired over the last incident, why should this be any different? Perhaps if they went thru and hired that dirtbag anyway, it would have created a hostile environment for any Jewish students at the University. Sounds like an argument that progs use. As a teacher, I feel that my right to an opinion and selective bias should be something that I present fairly and objectively...saying, this is how some people believe and why, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right...that students need to study every issue and make up their own minds, certainly not just follow what their parents, teachers or peers tell them without doing some research about the validity of that opinion. Somehow i have the belief that a pro-Israel stance wouldn't have gotten him fired. If the university was consistent and not selective, then that's one thing.