caulfield12

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) nice work in assembling all this info. oh, btw....... but i don't agree. That's where pitching is incredibly difficult to project. Last August or early September, you could have argued Felix, Iwakuma, Paxton, T.Walker and Chris Young (Comeback Player of Year who they let go to KC) was one of the best in the game, and could/should be a building block. 9 months later, Iwakuma has disappeared almost (will be a FA like Samardzija), and Walker/Paxton went through typical albeit perhaps unexpected growing pains. They're close in the same sense we are...they have some very nice pieces, but they're not competing for the moment and their window is already closing in on them as Cano, Cruz and Felix all age.

The Mariners comp is a pretty good one... Held onto aging star players too long (Ichiro is the best example) without getting anything back in return. Got desperate and dealt their best prospect (Adam Jones) for an absolute bust in Bedard. Developed a pitching staff in Hernandez, Iwakuma, Paxton, Walker that looked playoff ready...with Paxton/Walker representing Rodon and Fulmer. Almost all of their young prospects busted (Smoak, Montero, Zunino and Ackley are both getting there, Ackley in particular)... Filled in with free agent half measures like Logan Morrison, Corey Hart, Kendrys Morales (see White Sox 2011-2015). They have come up with Seager and Adam Jones, much better than anything we've managed on the position side. On the other hand, they have the Seattle market all to themselves, a better stadium (albeit not a good one for offense) and the early benefit of the $100-125 million added television/broadcast rights windfalls that we might not even receive in 2019. They have done better with FA's (Cano last year, Cruz this year) but also missed a lot (see list above, and Adrian Beltre for most of his M's career). The false positive from last year, competing until the final week...pushed them into the Cruz deal this year, which will really start to weigh down the payroll, along with Felix and Cano.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) So the White Sox situation is hopeless. They will never win. Isn't this the Royals model that you want the Sox to adopt? Suck Royally for 30 years, sneak into the WC get lucky during the WC game, get to the WS, lose, and suddenly your way is the right way. Isn't that preferable to now pretending Robin Ventura was 2012 AL Manager of the Year and that we actually made the playoffs that season? Should we just throw out the results from the field and argue the Sox should have won in 1994, 2003, 2006, 2008 (Quentin hamate was unlucky), 2010 and 2012? Weren't we just as lucky Hahn's kid lucked out on the coin toss, or it would be a full decade since the last White Sox playoff appearance? That doesn't count? Sometimes...teams make their own luck. It's sports. Even the 2005 White Sox had about at least eight or nine lucky things occur for them to win...every possible break went their way.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:09 AM) Do people forget Ozzie quit on the team? Who was the manager for many of the This. Team. Is. Dead. posts. It didn't used to be blamed on the manager. Now it is. That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans. Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight. Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:51 AM) If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout. The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants. Not if it was Skinner, McEwing, Bell or Capra. As you'll notice in Philly (MacPhail, Amaro and Gillick) and Arizona, those organizations weren't afraid to spend Bonifacio/Downs/Paulino/Keppinger/Belisario money on recent in-season changes in leadership much more important than the 23rd-25th players on the roster. The White Sox, close to a billion dollar franchise, are suddenly concerned about saving a few bucks when they were recently willing to spend $125-135 million on Tanaka?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:51 AM) If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout. The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants. It's sports. Every situation like this reaches a "critical mass," to the point where the daily questions/secon-guessing and barrage of columns create a big enough distraction that it's counter-productive to the organizational goal of creating and fostering a winning atmosphere. If the White Sox stubbornly attempt to prove everyone wrong, they're just going to end up turning off even more fans.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) and if they don't fire anyone, good luck in selling those season tickets and corp tickets. would anyone have faith in the sox org if something drastic is not done?? The Sox can ignore the potential benefits of an exciting metamorphosis at their own risk. But Hahn's promising offseason has only resulted in a bump of 1,014 fans per game and their average of 21,910 ranks 27th in league attendance — with 49 home games left for the division's last-place team. They'e already lost 50% of their offseason ticket bounce. And selling advertising for radio and t.v. broadcasts from here on out (if they weren't already locked into season long packages) will become a game of rapidly dimishing returns. Other than playing the Cubs and July 17-19th (2005 reunion)...things are going to get uglier without anything beyond cosmetic changes taking place.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:31 AM) Yesterday, Matt Abbatacola said that he knows that the White Sox wouldn't get what Sale is worth in a trade but that they should do it anyway? What? Somehow, one gets the feeling Baseball Prospectus, Yahoo and Grantland aren't all lining up to give him an "inside baseball" column. Maybe mlbtraderumors as an intern, if he's lucky. If not for Hawk Harrelson, nobody would even know his name outside of a few Score insiders.

I thought the Rays would be smart enough to steer away from that grease fire. Btw, Kipnis is putting up some incredible stats recently. Time for Phil Rogers to dream Jason was on the South Side and pen an All-Star advocacy column.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...629-column.html David Haugh with an even stronger shot across the bow... Stop yourself before suggesting managers make no impact on wins and losses. Save the sabermetrics for evaluating leadoff hitters and relief pitchers. Some things in baseball simply cannot be adequately measured by an acronym. A city where Cubs manager Joe Maddon works is the wrong place to make that argument too. Like a boss in any profession, the right manager can create a culture conducive to winning whether establishing that new environment involves more structure, accountability or just plain fun. Who is the Sox's Maddon to lead the total rebuild necessary? Should Ventura be the only guy to go? Even if it takes until next offseason to answer those questions, starting the process now makes sense. .... When Reinsdorf discusses the future of the Sox with executive vice president Ken Williams or general manager Rick Hahn — in that order, as Williams made clear — you suddenly wonder how capable he is of distinguishing between Ventura the manager and Ventura the person he has known and admired for 26 years.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosen...630-column.html Advocates trading Chris Sale, among other ideas...which is basically blowing up the entire roster and starting over. Fact is, nobody’s sure how the Sox front office works after Williams’ comments over the weekend that Hahn isn’t good enough to take Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf’s first phone call. Hahn, though, made the announcements of the new signings and acquisitions last offseason. So, I guess Hahn is in charge of making the roster and Williams is in charge of blowing it up. That’s apparently why Williams accompanied the Sox during consecutive series losses in Minnesota and Detroit. He wanted to evaluate players. He didn’t need to spend the money. The players stink. Trade as many as you can as fast as you can. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...-htmlstory.html 39% blame players, 36% blame Ventura/coaching, 25% the front office

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) Ventura is low hanging fruit. Rather see analysis of the Sox drafting, evaluation and front office. If you fire Ventura, Cooper should go too. But i don't see the point in firing them now really just to put the bench coach in charge. Well, the column certainly doesn't advocate for Mark Parent like Cowley used to do with the Joey Cora fluff pieces.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/73...obin-dial-ozzie The article reaching the desperate conclusion of putting Ozzie back in charge of the circus, taking some shots against Ventura and Mark Parent along the way...

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 06:36 AM) My guess it will turn out like Beckham's hot streak, but De Aza is tearing up in Boston both w bat and glove. Just incredibly streaky...did that in the beginning with the O's as well last year.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:03 PM) The 2012 team featured: A career year for Pierzynski. 27 home runs, .827 OPS The final year of vintage Konerko. .857 OPS The final year of excellent Rios, .850 OPS DeAza's best full season, 2.5 WAR an in-season trade for YOUK!, .771 OPS in 80 games w/ White Sox Tank Viciedo's best season, 1.0 WAR Most improved Adam Dunn, 41 HR .800 OPS NONE of those players ever reached those heights again. Most not even close, 4 are not playing major league baseball now. You also got standard issue, non-crater seasons from Alexei and Gordon, something Alexei might not be capable of anymore. As Hahn has stated many times, they knew they'd have to shift away from that old core and rebuild at some point soon. And the team showed them when the next year. Yeah, Quintana (as a rookie) for most of that season pitched like one of the best pitchers in baseball...out of seemingly nowhere. Reed, Jones and Santiago more or less held their own...along with a cast of 8-9 forgettable rookies and journeymen in the bullpen. It was definitely an older core...it was pretty much a comment to play "devil's advocate" with all this back and forth going on about who's to blame for these last three seasons. We'll probably never have a good answer, anymore than most fans are satisfied with that prevailing argument that the "Rowand/Everett leadership vacuum" led directly to the 2nd half collapse in 2006 and complete disaster in 2007.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:23 PM) That's pretty much what any of our stats would be. Even us dudes would luck into some cheapies and take a few walks when somebody is throwing s***balls. Not even close. Most would be lucky to foul off a pitch or two...let alone actually put a ball into play. Anyone over 35+, unless they're playing some type of sport with extreme hand-eye coordination like badminton, racquetball, cricket....forget about it.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 09:08 PM) Pretty good post. Flavum, save this post. I think this is how it'll play out, sir! It might be Alomar time, actually. Beware, however, Tony Pena sucked as KC skipper! OMG! Don't tease me. The return of Ozzie would be immortal. OK, think of it. Robin quits tomorrow. Oz is interim. What would it hurt??? See how he behaves the remainder of a lost lost season. If he shuts his mouth and is a modern day manager, five year extension, baby!!! I love Ozzie and this plan would hurt nobody. This team has long been out of it. I repeat .... WHAT WOULD IT HURT? At the least it could resurrect the career of a guy who deserves to be in baseball? Greg775, Bill Self and the manager of the local Lawrence Applebee's or Chili's all have a higher probability of being the next Sox manager while KW is still ensconced in the front office suite.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:41 PM) Teed it up for me as well. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Not good at pitch framing, haha. Seriously, that would be a clubhouse where it might work for 2-3 months, but he doesn't have the right type of personality for managing in today's environment. In the end, he's better off in broadcasting. Sandy Alomar, Jr., or Joel Skinner or even McEwing would be much better choices. Parent was a catcher as well, but haven't seen anything to be extremely impressed from his tenure with the organization. Anything besides Buddy Bell would be a step in the right direction. No to Konerko, Thome, Rowand, DJ...and Steve Stone is too comfortably situated from a financial standpoint to do anything but front office work if he was to leave the broadcasting booth. That might be one of the problems for Ventura...being too comfortable, in the sense that his family will still be set for life no matter how long his tenure as a manager lasts, compared to someone like a Clint Hurdle who didn't make nearly enough as a player (and with pensions now, it's QUITE comfortable) to set up both his children and grandchildren for life.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:51 PM) Yep. If they score 4 runs a game during that 0-8 stretch, they'd be something like 36-38 and the tone would be much different. This game can go back and forth.... If they hadn't had so many comeback victories when down 2-3-4 runs early, only to rally late. I think there were at least 5-6 of those examples, more than the White Sox probably had in 2013 and 2014 combined. The pythagorean number for expected wins and losses being way out of whack. ERA and BA is the bottom 3 in the AL, the worst defense (by DRS), one of the worst bullpens, the worst baserunning/near the lowest percentage of opposing baserunners thrown out, etc. OTOH, the sheer talent level of Sale, Abreu, Rodon, Quintana, etc., makes it impossible for them to be the absolute worst, compared to the Phillies or Brewers. If any offense could consistently score exactly 4 runs per game in this run-averse environment, they'd probably be a 108 win team. The problem is most teams will score 6, 2, 0 and 8 to get to those 16 runs, leaving them the likely losers of two games unless they're getting incredible starting pitching, defense and a lockdown closer nailing down games.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) They are both good at pitch framing though Caulfield……..wasn't it you that pointed that out? Haha. I'm just giving you a hard time. Both are bad. I think Phegley is bad too though. I think more than anything it was the rumors of Phegley being on the outs with management, as he was perceived as having an "attitude" by some...of course, looking at his statistics with the White Sox, it's not like he was owed anything. On the other hand, any catcher in baseball "stuck" behind Tyler Flowers would understandably be a bit frustrated. Pitch framing is very important/underrated, but it's hard to see what other defensive facets Tyler excels in...so yeah, it's kind of amusing that this one statistical factor which really didn't exist on the radar screen five seasons ago is now what's keeping him as a major league starter (well, 60% of the games, at least).

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 08:16 PM) They don't like Phegley's game-calling skills. He was never going to play for the Sox anymore. Which makes it a bit ironic that the team with the best ERA in the AL has use for him, but the team with the 13th best ERA doesn't. And, going by the game threads this season, there aren't very many fans of Tyler Flowers' or Geo's pitch calling, either.

SF Giants waiting on Peavy and Cain first before they make any kind of deal.... Royals waiting on the return of Ventura/Vargas...Kris Medlen and former 1st rounder Sean Manaea are both rehabbing in the minors and getting closer. They're more concerned with their lack of frontline "oomph." Right now, they have Volquez, Duffy, Chris Young, Blanton and Guthrie. Not sure how confident they are in Young/Blanton keeping this up. http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-can%E2...&ocid=yahoo In the middle of January, a fan stepped to the microphone inside a downtown Chicago hotel ballroom and told the Cubs prospects on stage: “We love you like we love our wives and our children.” If that sounds a little creepy, well, that’s how prospects are treated in the age of social media. They got the boy-band treatment at Cubs Convention, fans rushing forward for autographs as soon as the Q&A session ended.

Part of it's the immediacy and depth of information from the internet, which didn't exist for most of the 80's and into the early to mid 90's. The other reason is ESPN and its massive network of channels...showing LeBron's high school games, or nearly every single game of the Little League World Series. Before, we just had the final/championship game in the U.S., and I can't remember if we had the international championship, but it definitely wasn't on ABC.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) Minnesota and KC look good.. the rest look just as crappy as the White Sox or worse. Almost the entire Minnesota starting 9 is now homegrown. Of course, that's not entirely surprising with Terry Ryan back in the GM chair. Buxton, if he can stay healthy, is a future superstar (ceiling-wise), and they've got 2 more Top 25-35 guys in Sano and Berrios. Cleveland has a much deeper and stronger connection to Latin America right now, with Francisco Lindor being the prime example, but they've also discovered the likes of Yan Gomes (Brazil) and Carlos Santana, to name just a few. Their newest 3B is also a Latin player, internally-developed, and they had Ramirez at SS, but he didn't hit well enough to hold that position.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 05:53 PM) Heyward Goodbye, $175 million or maybe even $200 million. That's well beyond what we spent this offseason on LaRoche, Cabrera, Robertson, Samardzija (one year payroll addition), Bonifacio and Zach Duke combined. The biggest problem is we're not playing in OLD Comiskey. If we had a huge outfield like Minnesota does, it would make more sense to spend millions on RF defense, but we're in a park that rewards offense first and foremost.