caulfield12

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 11:55 PM) Thank you. This was what I was looking for. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...emiumvideo.html - Hahn on Viciedo What did he say? About plate discipline/strike zone management....cutting down on his swing with two strikes and going more to RF? Throws to the wrong bases? Missing the cutoff man? Bad jumps/reads? Defensive "awareness" and thinking ahead of the action proactively instead of reacting?

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-will-b...lash-jon-lester Another article touting the Cubs' future and possibilities of signing Jon Lester.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 10:03 PM) Royals getting owned by Detroit again. Detroit has won 11 of 15 this year vs. KC. Royals are trying to ride their excellent defense and pitching into the playoffs. Thing is, KC's offense is so putrid (nobody walks; nobody ever homers) it is putting the postseason in jeopardy. Can defense and pitching win out as the cliche says? Or do you need some hitting too? Shields really needs to earn him "Big Game" moniker tomorrow against Porcello to stop the bleeding. He definitely showed up against the Yankees in his last start.

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...who-homers-loss White Sox continuing to evaluate Dayan Viciedo...no decision/s made yet for 2015 on some guys

At -103, except for the Rangers, we now have the 2nd worst runs scored/runs allowed differential in MLB.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 08:45 PM) Most mental and physical errors I have ever seen in a Sox game. Absolutely unacceptable Getting rid of DeAza, Beckham and presumably Viciedo was supposed to correct this....Dunn, Keppinger, etc. Seems it's only getting worse and comparable to the darkest/bleakest moments of 2013's abysmal finish.

Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes. Maybe Shane Spencer or Kevin Maas, although I think Spencer's numbers with the Yankees were in the 2nd half. Garrett Jones?

How in God's name do you make 4 errors in half a game? Not even Jackie Robinson West did that...they were better coached and exemplified better fundamentals IMO.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 07:58 AM) So not really anything like 2005 for the White Sox. Except the A's had the best record in baseball for much of the season and, like the 2005 White Sox, were/are in real danger of missing the playoffs until the final week of the season. The presence of the Angels is less important than the state of the A's. Without Richards, it's going to be extremely difficult for LA to line-up starting pitching in the playoffs after Jered Weaver.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) 1) How do you KNOW Shields is a bad deal? 2) If you KNOW this, please let me know what crystal ball you are using and where I can find it. 3) Please then let me use that crystal ball, or at least use it for me and tell me who you KNOW is not going to be a bad deal? None of us KNOW anything. We can only ASSUME. Shields is a good bet to be able to pitch well alter into his career. Granted, I wouldn't be in a rush to throw 5 years at him at any amount, but the reality is this: -If you want a good player you should be prepared to overpay -in free agency you overpay via money and potentially a draft pick (2nd rounder in our case) -through trade you overpay via minor league talent I would much rather keep the talent, or do like what the Cubs said they would do re: additions, i.e. use one or the other, not both (why they didn't give up money AND talent for Hamels). Shields or someone else can come via payroll room, and so what if we overpay a few million? If it means the difference between exciting baseball and s***ty baseball, and it means the difference between keeping our minor leaguers or trading them, go for it. One thing I loved about KW is that he wasn't afraid to make a bad deal. He made logical moves for the most part which is why most of them turned out well. He made some bad moves too, took on some bad deals & gave up Gio, but he wasn't afraid to f*** it up. If you're afraid to deal and only want the most ideal trades & best contracts possible then good luck ever getting better, because trying to do that without taking a risk is impossible. That river boat gambling style wasn't sustainable. It was a year to year fix, and the flawed philosophy of bankrupting the minor league system to keep the big league team competitive, combined with the Dominican fiasco, is something we're just starting to get out from under 3-4 years later down the line. The Swisher move, Teahen extension, Edwin Jackson and Teahen to Toronto for crap...and Swisher dumping, Sergio Santos for crap...those were all TERRIBLE and set the franchise back. Extending Danks. Signing Dunn. When everything went right (Quentin/Danks/Alexei/Floyd), it allowed us to be competitive or win the World Series in 2005, but only for a season or so at a time. The Rios and first Peavy move didn't really work out very well in the end, either. I guess they were fun and exciting and made for a lot of ink/press compared to the style of Ventura/Hahn, but in the end the meter wasn't moved far enough to register as more than a blip.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) REALLY? Think about that for a second here. I'll let you do that. "Baseball go in hand, baseball thrown where? Where go baseball?" "Hmmm" "I like food." -Recent thoughts of Maikel Cleto OTOH Matt Lindstrom has put together something called a career. Which is likelier to occur in your opinion, a good player with a track record turning in a good season or a s***ty player who people have been dreaming on for years magically finding it? Cleto is another one who is immediately on the chopping block. If we don't need the roster spot then he'll compete for a role in Spring. Otherwise.... definitely a waiver/outright candidate as soon better players start hitting the waiver wire. My last sentence is key. I'll stand by the point about persevering with Cleto rather than giving Lindstrom another shot. The odds of it happening are about 5-10% at best (and it wouldn't be in a high leverage role like at times this year). As for the "career" argument, that hasn't been used once to defend Adam Dunn staying around as opposed to someone like Andy Wilkins. In fact, John Danks has had a MUCH better career than anyone who's likely to replace him in the Sox rotation at the moment. Alexei Ramirez has had a much better career than Sanchez/Semien/Micah Johnson will ever have. You have to look at BOTH career performance, what have you done for me lately and then factor in the injury issue/s (for example, the same calculus of risk adding Justin Morneau as the full-time DH and giving up some talented minor leaguers in the process rather than just paying for one in free agency). The Sox aren't stupid. If they believed all along that Wilkins had the potential to be a starter next season, Dunn would have been gone in June, July or early August.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:52 PM) What is the value of a contending team? In terms of attendance? In terms of concessions? In terms of advertising dollars? In terms of market share, especially as the Cubs are starting to get more attention now that their exciting young players are coming up? In terms of late season interest piqued by a potential playoff run? Etc. Etc. Etc. OTOH, what is the cost of John Danks contract? $28.5M or so combined over 2 years. A quality 5th starter is probably a $5-9M/year pitcher on the market depending on the offseason. Very s***ty SP have gotten good amounts of money. What is a quality LH reliver worth on the open market? We paid Scott Downs $4M this year I think, something like that. If Danks can *at least* be a quality reliever, what are we really eating in terms of performance? Maybe $20M, maybe $22M if he's barely conscious when he takes the mound? And is that amount worth taking a big dump all over the 2015 season *if* after the offseason we think we really do have a shot at a WC or better? Jerry Reinspickle would probably say so. Lower the ass, drop the turd, why pay someone to play elsewhere? Well, I would disagree. In keeping Danks to our own detriment all we'd be doing is quantifying "stubbornness" as some monetary value which is basically the money owed to John Danks minus the worth of his performance on the open market. But really whatever that value is we'd have to compare that figure to the approximate value of all the opportunities missed because of it. And it would probably be the case that stubbornness for the sake of it looked foolish in the end. With Dunn we missed the forest for the trees, hopefully we don't do the same with Danks. At least with Dunn, Avi got hurt and made him look less of an anchor, but with Danks you have Rodon behind him and that obviously changes things. Following this logic, we would also have just eaten the whole Dunn deal before 2012. That would have precluded any hopes of contending in that season. The bigger issue is the fact that we're not blocking a young Brandon McCarthy by acquiring Javy like we did in 2006. As things stand now, we don't have ANYONE you could trot out there in his spot, other than guys like Bassit, Carroll, Rienzo, Beck...Rodon's not being blocked by Danks, but simply by avoiding his Super 2 issues. If contending "now" mattered more than player control, then the Cubs would have brought up Bryant in August/September to help sell season tickets for 2015. Clearly, the calculus of that equation leaned in the same direction which the White Sox are choosing with Rodon. I'm not even sure how many more season ticket packages we could/would have sold had Rodon come up and performed sort of in line with what Kip Wells did as a rookie. 500? 750? 1000? At any rate, not enough to offset the value of keeping a potential ace from reaching Super 2. Finally, we're not a team like the Giants who can afford to stow away guys like Lincecum or Zito in the pen...and probably never will be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:45 PM) I doubt you would get an insurance payout for something that has already happened. They would have to eat the salary and move on. I simply meant if they had it on every player, regardless of salary...but for Jones' salary level, it's meaningless almost. What would be more interesting is if "diminished performance due to injury" could be paid out on Danks. Of course, every team's going to claim that, so no team would touch that kind of coverage with a ten foot pole.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) I think in a vacuum the absolute best move we could make would be to sign (or trade for) a #2 RHSP and set Rodon up at the #5. If we have to put Danks in the pen, well, at least we have a long man & a lefty specialist who can throw a strike. If we can move Danks & get out of some of his salary then that is ideal, but then we'd need 2 lefties in our pen instead of just one. But just thinking for a second, even if we had to overpay (annual salary) for someone like Shields to get a 3 or max 4 year deal (it's always the years that are the problem, not as much an annual salary thing) then think about what this rotation would do for us: Sale-Shields-Quintana-Noesi-Rodon You are going to need a quality long man there. Scott Carroll isn't a starter, but could he do a job similar to what DJ Carrasco did for us for a couple years and Luis Vizcaino did for us in '05, i.e. work 70IP or so without s***ting the bed? I think he could, conceivably, because he has shown as much this season. If not, maybe an improved Rienzo, who does have mcuh better stuff as well as some experience now, could handle that role. Thinking of the above rotation along with a quality long man backing it up (Rodon's innings limits & Noesi developing are the main issues), you should generally have 6.1 - 7IP covered. And holy s*** at that. If we can more or less do that then Guerra can be a 6th inning guy, Putnam and Petricka are the primary 7th & 8th inning guys, and so you add an arm like Lindstrom returning or another vet as insurance and he's a 6th to 8th swingman/righty specialist. Now you've got most of a bullpen, you just need a closer and a couple lefties, which is doable over an offseason. I wouldn't look to spend a lot of cash on a closer, but there are always reclamation/low value veteran types out there that would be interested in the chance to compete for a closer gig in ST assuming it is a short-term deal. We'd be in a good spot. I think if you add an arm like Shields or Latos, Bailey, etc. then: 1) The rotation is better 3-5 2) Your bullpen is a s***load better because now you are limiting the innings going to s***ty players & your better arms are typically operating in set roles 3) Your offense becomes less of an concern, and now you can think more about prioritizing defense to build around your pitching staff. Nothing is ever certain, but it's a lot easier to project quality out of 5 guys in a rotation, 3 of which are proven, than it is to project 9 guys in the offense staying healthy and performing well enough (even IF Abreu counts for like 3 of them on his own). 4) You do all of this in one move. And if it comes via a signing, you just forfeit a 2nd round pick and money, which is a lot less than the Anderson + Montas + Danish + Hawkins type of package other teams are going to ask for in return for a very good SP. 5) If it is a signing then it means we still have MIF depth to trade & we can maybe keep Alexei for 2015 **IF*** we think we're good enough and/or the type of quality return isn't out there. Where would you plan on getting defensive improvement next year? Avisail Garcia? Gillaspie? Marginal from Abreu? Sanchez at best will be equal to Beckham, Micah a downgrade. Doing much better than Flowers/Nieto won't be easy, either. Finally, an Alexei Ramirez trade downgrades that position as well. If nothing else is clear, it's improving that DeAza/Viciedo spot offensively and defensively that was a black hole for most of 2014. Perhaps Semien playing more games at 3B/LF can help, but it's not going to be a Top 10-15 defense in MLB, that's pretty clear...not unless you DH Avisail (won't happen) and completely give up on Viciedo (likely not to happen YET, either). Bringing back Lindstrom? YUCK TUC. I'd rather have Cleto's potential than whatever Lindstrom is likely to produce at this stage in his career...but I don't think we'll see either one of those guys if everything goes according to plan in the offseason.

If they offered DeAza and Beckham coming off their 2013 seasons, Viciedo's going to be offered one last chance...whether people like it or not. Forgot about the insurance comp side of things on Jones. At any rate, that could go either way. As for Surkamp, if he's THE lefty coming into next year, OR Snodgress, look out below. One of those two, along with a Bassit type, should be the last two ever coming out of the pen. If they're placed in prominent, top five, use when tied or leading roles, we're likely to be 10-15 games under .500 again barring some major changes in other areas during the offseason. What Hahn says makes sense, does he goes "all in" like pre-2011 Dunn's contract or spread it between El Duque, Iguchi, Dye, AJ, Pods, Vizcaino, Hermanson in 2005 style? If we could miraculously find those 5-7 veteran or bordering on veteran (26-32 year olds) players for reasonable contract dollars, of course you do that, rather than blowing it all on Shields/M.Cabrera/closer for example. If you look at the roster, wholesale improvement is still needed across multiple positions/roster spots. We're far from 1-2 players away as we sit right now.

Belisario's definitely gone, not offered the opportunity to return. Viciedo and Nate Jones are question marks at the moment. Flowers will stay. I guess it also depends on how accountants want to allocate Abreu's signing bonus...all monies into 2014, spread out over multiple years, etc.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 9, 2014 -> 04:06 AM) I know you like to hop on a bandwagon when ripping people and are hoping this thread turns into a Ventura doesn't understand saber stuff bashing, but one thing you failed to mention was Hahn, the darling the saber crowd, said the exact same thing in the link. Who ever said he was the darling of the saber crowd? The White Sox are pretty much firmly in the middle, with the "old school" Kenny Williams and "old school" coaching staff, combined with the newer school approach of Hahn. Avisail Garcia is hardly a darling to those people, for example...although Eaton and Abreu would have to be considered the feathers in his cap so far, he's only 40-45% of the way home, with a long ways to go still remaining. And many things could STILL and probably will go wrong. Everyone has their favorites, do they not? Just like you could universally be expected to be anti-Don Cooper or pro-Gordon Beckham until the bitter end.

http://voices.suntimes.com/sports/hahn-wil...this-offseason/

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../true/minpa/300 Who's going to improve on Flowers from all those catchers (and might legitimately be available)? Sure, Russell Martin, but there will be 10-12 teams after him. Then you've got names like Ruiz (too old for our window), Gattis (too expensive in terms of talent to acquire and so-so defense), etc. Flowers is out OPS-ing Jason Castro and that's yet another case of why would you give up something significant like Tim Anderson/Montas/Danish to acquire what might not even be an upgrade?

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...&ocid=yahoo It's obvious that Ventura's not throwing the sabre/advanced stats world anything to show that he's familiar with their orthodoxy...this is "old school" boilerplate baseball lexicon if ever there was.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 10:21 PM) Plus putting Detroit closer to the post season. Oakland's season is feeling a lot like 2005 for the White Sox, except Cleveland (unlike the Angels) never caught and blew past us because we were something like 14 games up at one point.

Congrats. Making it through that first trimester seems to be the key, as chances of miscarriage go down to roughly 3-5% from that point onward. In China, my wife's mother is so conservative/cautious. Doesn't want my wife to go to loud/action movies, no hot or spicy foods, seafood except for shrimp, soda, make-up, high heels, sports, hot pot, ipad or cell phone near her stomach, be careful around wild dogs and cats, she's even suggesting cell phone reception towers are too dangerous to walk by. The stroller she asked me to buy is kind of a hybrid between a tank and Humvee. We're at 15 weeks now. Three weeks before the "hotel" wedding (although we're already officially married by civil law). She definitely has been more emotional/hormonal and moody/irritable/easily angered. I can't even wear Clinique Happy anymore because the scent drives her crazy now that she's pregnant, haha.

And yet another reason we can't go into 2015 with Avisail and Gillaspie as our best "power" hitters after Abreu. You might even argue Semien would be 2nd on the team in homers if you went into next season with the same starting line-up as down the stretch (which of course is unlikely, but not impossible). It's suicide at USCF.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) When we made the move, I absolutely hated it and was likely vocal about it here, but I've got to hand it to him, Noesi has been much better than I thought he'd be. Absolutely no risk move...so that's hard to hate, but the odds weren't in favor of the Sox. That said, he's really been a 4 starter and a borderline 3 for most of the 2nd half of the season. Has progressed quite nicely. Of course, the same thing happened with Phil Humber and then he fell off a cliff after throwing that no hitter against the Mariners.

A's and Brewers really sinking fast...Royals, Tigers, A's and Mariners fighting for those last three spots. Amazingly, the M's might have the best pitching of all the teams (if they make it), and the worst offense. Although I'd have to say the Royals are a close second in terms of abysmal offense (only Gordon, Perez and Cain are threats right now)...so you can say KC is incredibly boring or balanced in averageness. Scherzer and Vargas tmrw, so that sets up a huge battle for first place between Shields and Porcello WED, as I would expect Max to shut them down...if you add in that 1/2 game swing for the Indians/Royals bottom of the 9th, KC could easily be out of first place if their offense continues to struggle and they overuse Holland/Escobar/W.Davis.