caulfield12

That was actually only Escobar's 2nd career homer. But, against the White Sox now....6 for 16, HR, 5 RBI's. OUCH.

Of course. Pretty fitting. We'd be a lot better off with Escobar than Keppinger, lol.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) Why do we continue to play Keppinger? Contracts. Greene's defensive issues at 2B. Sooner or later, they'll have no choice, but then, Beckham will be back in about 2 weeks so it won't matter.

Feel sad and depressed that I actually wanted Tyler Flowers to be up in that situation after the first two games of the series. Yeah, yeah....day game following 2 nights games, a long plane trip and game tmrw. I get it. But you just want to keep going with T-Flow while he's hot, IMO, and ride it as long as possible because you know another ice cold stretch is coming.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) We're last in the league in offense. It's not an insult, it's good baseball. Willingham grounds into DPs all the time and a crafty pitcher like Axelrod can make that happen. Not to mention Mauer is hitting .350ish and Willingham is just north of .200. Mauer has reached in the first inning each game this series. It sends a signal to the entire team you don't have confidence in them. That will just cause the offense to press even more, and the pitchers to start getting frustrated with the hitting. After the 6th inning, much less of a problem with it. Unless it's Barry Bonds in his prime, you don't walk him there.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) We're last in the league in offense. It's not an insult, it's good baseball. Willingham grounds into DPs all the time and a crafty pitcher like Axelrod can make that happen. Not to mention Mauer is hitting .350ish and Willingham is just north of .200. Mauer has reached in the first inning each game this series. It sends a signal to the entire team you don't have confidence in them. That will just cause the offense to press even more, and the pitchers to start getting frustrated with the hitting. After the 6th inning, much less of a problem with it. Unless it's Barry Bonds in his prime, you don't walk him there.

Gillaspie leads all A.L. rookies with 28 hits now.

Don Cooper out. Wish Keppinger at least kept them honest and looked to get an out somewhere besides 1B. Sigh again.

LOL. "This guy has nothing to get you out with. You have confidence when you walk into the batter's box. Average fastball is 88. All other pitches are below average." Nice, Twins' announcers.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:24 AM) I would have walked Mauer there. In the first inning? With his proclivity for hitting DP balls? With Willingham struggling so mightily? HMMMMMMM....

Sigh. No range from Keppinger. 14 game hitting streak for Mauer. Amazing, but his career best is ONLY 16. You would have thought it would be 20-30 games.

Trying to cheat on a fastball? Remember when NO pitcher in baseball could beat Konerko with that pitch? I'm sure there was the dreaded "shoulder shrug/bat fling" with that AB...

QUOTE (Jake @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) I fail to see the real issue with the production out of the leadoff spot. It has been short of ideal, but I have to say it isn't a huge cause of concern for me. Also, f*** those white 1B/DH! Isn't that true for about 85% of the 1B/DH combos in the major leagues? C'mon KONERKO. Need to get a lead for Dylan. Konerko claims he's healthy, FWIW.

Rios now over a .360 career hitter against the Twins in his career. 1st triple of the season for Rios.

Snodgress struggling a bit again. 3 ER in 4+.

Blacked out here in China. SIGH. Would have been 2nd game of the year to watch.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 15, 2013 -> 11:03 AM) Why couldn't they? They don't play a good team until May 31st. Because they've shown no signs of that being at all a likely outcome, let alone a probability. When they go out to LA, sweep the Angels and Scioscia's fired, then I'll be willing to believe things might be changing for the better.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) When they were 17-21 last year, they were in 3rd place 4 1/2 out. Except they were a LOT closer to the Tigers, and didn't have four teams stacked ahead of them. CLE 22-16 DET 18-20 CHW 17-21 MN 15-23 KCR 12-26 Most importantly, they were RIGHT ABOUT to go on a 14-2/13-1 run that put them well over .500 and in first place (starting on May 29th) for MOST of the remainder of the season. If anybody believes this team's going to put together a similar, 2010/2012 streak, well, they better go to Las Vegas.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) Hahn was on the Score this morning. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/986-670-...-interviews#986 Not buying that there's no "carryover effect" at all from last season. He's the GM, he can't admit to that...but whatever. And the argument about the defense "getting to more balls put into play" is so hard to quantify or defend. If you've followed the team closely and compared it to last year, there's just 5X more mental mistakes (throwing to the wrong bases, missing cutoff men, lackadaisical routes, throws bouncing, wild pitches and passed balls, etc.) than just physical ones "caused by pressing," which seems to be the company line (Beckham and Konerko basically said the same thing). He also said the pitchers weren't pitching over mistakes as well as they did last year (well, before the final six weeks). "Execution equalling ability." Hmmmm... Plus, there's no denying the dropoff comparing Kepp vs. Beckham. But, that said, if we win today, 17-21 would match out record at the same point last year. Except I'm 98% sure that we weren't in last place with four teams stacked ahead of us and still a good distance out of 4th place (which would obviously also change with another win today).

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) Not quite. Regardless of Danks' defense that may be overrated, he's better than any of our starters out there. I'd rather give Danks a chance. While both seasons have been limited, his last two seasons ('12 & '13) at AAA he's posted +.300/+.400. Tieing in his above average defense and it's time for him to graduate and I am not high on him enough to give him a starting job. With Wise you know what you're getting. Above average speed, above average defense and s***ty stats at the plate. I think Danks can do that and even have a chance to excel. Plus, Danks has been clutch in his short time up. Even in a role where he would go a full week with out at bats he got in in some extra inning games and hit a walk off homer and a GW homer. With Wise, you get nothing after this year. He is 32 (about?) and is a journey man. Keep Wise and then we go to 2014 without knowing what Danks can do. Especially how this year has been looking you have to give the nod to Danks to see what he has. The difference is Wise knows his role. He's not a regular player, except for a few brief stretches of his long career. It's hard to ask younger players like Danks to step into that kind of role. Danks' long swing/hitting approach doesn't lend itself to getting 3-4 AB's once every ten days.

QUOTE (KPBears @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) OK, you think Viciedo's a "free-swinging hack." His .800+ OPS in his limited plate appearances disagrees with you. And, since he's gotten back, he's been an incredibly different looking hitter. De Aza is a fine position player, probably a 2-3 WAR player. He's good for a .750ish OPS, good average, good speed, a little pop. He already has 7 homers this year. He strikes out a lot, but I can live with that if and when he starts drawing a few walks on top of his solid contact ability. Alexei Ramirez is still one of the best shortstops in the AL, and it really is difficult to name many guys better than him. Even with a .low .700s OPS, he's incredibly valuable. Konerko put up an .857 OPS last year, and he's shown in the past that he can basically flip a switch at any point and turn it on. Dunn put up an .800 OPS last year. Keppinger kills lefties. Gillaspie is showing to be a really, really solid hitter. You are underselling an absolute ton of players by throwing a blanket statement of "they're not good" merely because they have struggled for a month. As you mentioned, you're looking at a "limited" sample of Viciedo. I'm looking at his total body of work at this point. He kind of reminds me of a lesser Carlos Lee. Yeah, Lee has a fair amount of hits and home runs over his career. But it took him a long time to amass those stats, and he's never meant that much to any of his teams. When the Sox got Pods for him, I think the Sox fleeced the Brewers in that trade (I don't care that the rest of Soxtalk hates Pods, face it, 2005 doesn't happen without him). And I see Dayan as a worse version of Lee. I think De Aza is a solid leadoff hitter, but there's a difference between solid and good (I'll throw Alexei and Beckham, maybe, into the solid but not good category as well). Dunn is done (pun intended, and spot on as well). Konerko is also done. I love Paulie. Carried himself as a true professional on and off the field. I want his number retired, and a statue in 5 years. But he has almost nothing left. Regardless of the return, I want the Sox to trade him to a contender, because Paulie deserves one more chance at a ring. Keppinger is pure garbage. He kills lefties? You know what that means? He's a platoon player at best. You don't make your big offseason move a platoon player. It's ok to do that midseason when you're just trying to fine tune a team that's already good/great (like the 2005 Sox when they just added Blum). I like what Gillaspie has done so far, but lately he's been coming back to Earth, and he's got a long way to go to prove he's for real considering his track record. This team has more holes than Swiss cheese. With the possible exception of Rios, there's not a single above average hitter on the team at any position, and in most cases, they are far below average. It's not the matter of guys underachieving (because they're not, the lineup is just that bad) or adding a couple of pieces in the offseason. The pitching staff is strong (although, assuming Peavy isn't dealt and stays healthy, I think we still need a number three starting pitcher, and I have my doubts that Danks is ever coming back as an effective pitcher), but the lineup needs at least three good hitters, and at least two of whom are big on base guys, and a major comeback from Konerko. There's no help on the farm, and there is zero chance that this team can compete this year. Stockpile prospects and invest money, and more importantly time and effort, in player development. I'm not going to have this whole Viciedo argument. But a kid at his age putting up an 800+ OPS and showing a lot more patience recently...that's just as likely to be him going forward as your scenario, but it's up to you if you want to think it's below average for a 23 or 24 year outfielder to hit 25 home runs in basically his rookie season. You can't compare Viciedo and Lee mainly because that was 90% a Lee salary dump (along with Magglio and Ordonez) going into 2005. Lee was already a well-established, veteran player who had settled into career historical trends by that point. He also had a fair share of detractors in the clubhouse and front office due to character issues and perceived selfishness in his game. That trade had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with freeing up money and also dramatically altering clubhouse chemistry.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:11 AM) I will just say that I think the Sox are much more likely to trade Rios than they are Ramirez, and that's basically because it is much easier to find outfielders than it is to find shortstops like Ramirez. You might not get your Matt Adams, but there are certainly several other players that the team could acquire for him. Or you can package Rios and Dunn and eat a bad contract or take back nothing in return or whatever. And which team/s going to be willing to commit $50-55 million to Dunn/Rios for the next two years? Even if you offloaded BOTH those contracts, the RF hole wouldn't be addressable until the offseason/free agency, in all likelihood. We don't have anyone close to being ready to start on Opening Day 2014 from the Mitchell/Walker/Thompson group. So then we're having to go out and bid for players on the open market (like a Granderson) instead of replacing them from within. Trading Peavy or Ramirez or Rios is the only way to get something decent back in return....along with Reed. There's no way you can afford to trade Santiago or Quintana without knowing Danks' future. Heck, we might not know Danks' future after 2013, as far as whether we can rely on him or not. We'll have no choice but to go into 2014 with him in the starting rotation, pretty much regardless of the results this year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 15, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) Or someone will say Bochy has managed 8 teams that finished under .500 and 5 that have lost 90 plus games. The facts are, the better players you have, the better manager you are perceived to be. Even the Giants had 4 consecutive under .500 years, and then they were signing free agents. Not exactly a gut rebuild, and obviously they had players in their system who could play. Who do the White Sox have in their system were anyone could confidently say that by 2016 they will be a better than average hitter in the major leagues? They may be there, but there is going to have to be a big jump. The approach they are using is best moving forward. Why get rid of your best players? Why stop trying to win? They aren't that far off. If they could hit right now, they would be really good. They'll have the next 2 1/2 months for Beckham, Flowers and Gillaspie to prove themselves. And Dunn and Konerko to become reasonable facsimiles of their former selves. If they can't do that, no amount of good pitching is going to fix things. And, most importantly, we need to start seeing an improvement trend with the mental and physical errors...MUCH better defense has to be a part of this rebound. We've given away at least 3 and as many as 5-6 games already this year. We don't have that kind of margin for error to keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for the offense to climb out of. And we can't just expect Sale/Santiago/Axelrod/Peavy to pitch this way the entire season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 15, 2013 -> 09:50 AM) Even as "bad" as the Sox have been in recent years, they still haven't had back to back losing seasons since Manuel's first two years managing. So why on god's green earth do you think they'd "muddle" their way through three 74-78 win seasons right now? In this scenario, you even have them making additions to the club! OK, you think Viciedo's a "free-swinging hack." His .800+ OPS in his limited plate appearances disagrees with you. And, since he's gotten back, he's been an incredibly different looking hitter. De Aza is a fine position player, probably a 2-3 WAR player. He's good for a .750ish OPS, good average, good speed, a little pop. He already has 7 homers this year. He strikes out a lot, but I can live with that if and when he starts drawing a few walks on top of his solid contact ability. Alexei Ramirez is still one of the best shortstops in the AL, and it really is difficult to name many guys better than him. Even with a .low .700s OPS, he's incredibly valuable. Konerko put up an .857 OPS last year, and he's shown in the past that he can basically flip a switch at any point and turn it on. Dunn put up an .800 OPS last year. Keppinger kills lefties. Gillaspie is showing to be a really, really solid hitter. You are underselling an absolute ton of players by throwing a blanket statement of "they're not good" merely because they have struggled for a month. This pitching staff is incredibly deep and talented, and rebuilding now would be an absolute waste of that, because by the time you'd be "ready" offensively, most of these guys would have become too expensive to keep anymore. Then the cycle starts over. Beyond that, you say you'd take 5 years of losing for 20 years of winning, but as of last year, the White Sox were "winning" as much as they have at any point in the last 20 years. If you want that, then why would you rebuild in the first place? They'll almost certainly end up around 81-85 wins this year anyways. I honestly think if the Sox just stick out this year, make a trade or two if necessary to clear some payroll, and make additions in the offseason, everyone will give up this silly idea of rebuilding. You bring in guys like Morales, Utley, McCann, or Granderson, and suddenly you have power and excitement in the lineup again, and then the fans get excited too. I've admitted that the current Sox team is incredibly boring to watch and there's no real personality, but I can recognize that the team is good enough to win some games. Bad/disappointing....2007, 2009, 2011, 2013? Good/decent/competitive....2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 The problem is that the current offensive situation needs to be FIXED and nobody knows if Hahn's the man for the job, OR if the minor league system can produce a single starting position player in the next two years. My scenario for 74-78 win seasons is not doing anything but holding onto the current roster and keeping the payroll about the same or lowering it roughly 5-10% a year to reflect veterans leaving and attendance falling. If we did add those players like Matt Adams (for Ramirez/reliever), Morales, Utley, Granderson, McCann and kept every part of our rotation intact, then there's a VERY good chance we could get back to 88-90 wins UNLESS Sale goes down with an injury. Obviously, not all five, but at least 2 and possibly 3.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 15, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) I also think Bruce Bochy is one of the best if not the best managers in baseball This is where someone will say the defending World Series champions also hired a manager with little to no experience in Matheny.