caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 08:16 PM) Another mediocre start for Beede. Finnegan dominated a ranked Oklahoma St team. And of course, he's a lefty.

And it's easier to wait for Beck/Johnson and the #3 draft pick than to take the risk of acquiring a young pitching prospect with a likely high bust rate...blowing a cost-controlled/affordable hole into the rotation. Let's go back to Miggy Cabrera. The Marlins got Maybin and Andruw Miller for him. I doubt we could even get the Top 100 pitching equivalent prospect of Miller (at the time of that trade) for Jose Quintana and Miller didn't even come close to becoming a capable major league starter. At best, we might hope to get Carlos Martinez...someone like that. And that would push the rebuild back two years, lol, and force us to put Chris Sale on the shelf waiting for the young pitcher to mature and become a #2 (time which we've already invested into Quintana).

A really cool organization that I worked for from 1999-2002 is Youth Volunteer Corps of America. It's kind of the middle/high school version of AmeriCorps or the domestic Peace Corps, as way of explanation...or City Year, if you're familiar with that organization.

Well, the bullpen's definitely getting their work in... Everyone but Veal. Putnam and Purcey the most recent entries. Putnam was the one to give up the run.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) If we're talking about trading for guys who are FAs next year I'd rather trade for Sandoval if he's made available. Assuming they trade Dunn, Panda can rotate between DH/1B/3B. Keep ADA, trade Tank. Ride it with/goinng into 2015 with.... Eaton Semien Abreu Sandoval Garcia Davidson De Aza Catcher SS. Assuming Sandoval has a solid, injury-free season, would you be willing to commit $100-125 million at his age and recent history? You're basically signing a DH, ala Dunn, but you're going to be paying him even more than Dunn. It would be different if he was capable of playing 3B everyday, but we already have Davidson, and Sandoval's not LH, either.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) Once Eaton was acquired, that pretty much closed the door on a Sizemore acquisition. The outfield is already a little crowded. I wasn't originally thinking of Sizemore as a leadoff hitter, but rather as a left handed, middle of the order bat. We still don't have a quality left handed power hitter, so that hole was never filled. That's not his game. He's a doubles and triples hitter (when healthy) who will put up around 20 homers and 20-30 steals. He's not a clean-up guy, except in the most unusual of line-ups.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:02 PM) The White Sox don't. They have two of them. Maybe teams like some of the others you mentioned do. They can fight to pay Scherzer $200 million for eight years. Meanwhile the Sox are going to get 14 years out of Sale and Quintana for half of that price. Or the Cardinals. They'll put money into a Wainright or Carpenter, but they're not going spend big money for the middle of their rotation. It's a pretty good model. The main thing we're missing in comparison is Yadier Molina, who LaRussa claims is the best catcher in MLB history.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) If they bench Semien in favor of Suckham, I'm going to aire my grievances publicly. I'll tell you that. We've seen it with Axelrod over Santiago...sticking with Dunn through thick and thin...might as well add Beckham to the players fans are fed up with. That said, they would be crazy to leave him on the bench when he's the long-term solution at either 2B/SS. He might be the BEST option, in terms of playing all three infield positions, RIGHT NOW, but that doesn't mean it would be good for the future of the White Sox even if Semien gives us the stronger roster in April. Let Leury Garcia fill that role, or Carlos Sanchez. Or Keppinger, when he comes back.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Then if he's a 2 and others view him as a 3, why in the world would you trade him for the return of a #3, especially as he's signed to a contract of a #4? Heck, why do we want to trade him anyway? Sox don't do long rebuilds. They don't. Marty is the only one, as far as I know. The whole point of the deal was cost control/future savings and being able to secure one more important part of the rotation for the 2015-2018 window of opportunity. And, with that money allocated, move on to other areas of importance, like catcher, LH power/DH and possibly replacing Alexei Ramirez if Semien/C.Sanchez aren't the answer.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Yes, it's too early to draw any conclusions, but it's also equally premature to insist that he will sustain more injuries, and thus fail to stay healthy enough to play. The guy is only 31. Now, another player approximately the same age, has signed a huge long term contract. Cano, Choo and Cabrera are all the same age as Sizemore, and they have all received incredibly generous, very long term contracts. All I've ever contended is that it is not too late for Sizemore. He is still young enough to return to stardom. None of us know what will happen, but wouldn't you prefer the deal Boston made for Sizemore, to the ridiculous contracts given Cano and Cabrera? At least Sizemore will more likely try to stay in shape!! I have a feeling Cabrera will age pretty poorly, don't you? Sure, but the White Sox weren't going to sign any of those guys. It's not even about staying in shape, it's the likelihood that you can't build around a player like Sizemore due to his injury history. For the Red Sox, in a win now mode, he can fail, there's no risk and they move on to Jackie Bradley, Jr., or acquire another stopgap. For the White Sox, they would either not have acquired Adam Eaton or traded Viciedo/DeAza or eaten Dunn's salary. If you can make the case why Sizemore would be better for the White Sox in 2016-2017-2018 than Eaton, you're welcome to try.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) How does anyone know how GM'S view Q? I swear some of you guys play GM on the internet so much you actually think you are one. Quintana will always be a victim of Buehrle-itis. While Jose throws harder, the majority of scouts and baseball people would argue that 2's should have dominating stuff and miss tons of bats. Part of it is stubborness, the fact that the Yankees missed so badly on him that other teams are waiting for the other shoe to drop...not in Phil Humber fashion, but they think there will eventually be some type of regression, instead of more continued improvement. He's supposedly the hardest worker on the team, or one of the top 2-3. That bodes well, going forward. Just from going by the discussion over the last couple of days, most would argue he was definitely a 2 last year (in terms of his overall body of statistics) and even a 1 on the bottom 5 teams, but that the contract he signed would work out just fine if he slipped back to a 3 or even 4 type, meaning an ERA much closer to 4 than to 3.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) They could, and I admit I did not see that the first time, but they also can get more value for him if they trade him this year than if they trade him in the offseason or next season. The Brewers have a legit shot at the wild card. Sure, if everything falls apart, maybe they go down that road...but then picking him up for just 1 1/2 seasons, that's not in the current Hahn model of sustainable success either. Simply because of the fact that you'd probably be losing him precisely at the time you would most need him...going into the 2016 season. Then, if they did blow things up, they'd be looking for young prospects, which is precisely what we don't have in abundance, since we need the best prospects for the rebuild. They're going to need a lot more than Rienzo, Carlos Sanchez or Trayce Thompson types. For example, would we be willing to part with Beck and Semien for 1 1/2 years of Gallardo? It's a bit like the Wil Myers for James Shields move, then, although Myers was/is 5-10X the prospect of Beck or Semien. If you were the Brewers, would you trade him for Micah Johnson and Beck, for example?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) This deal makes DET look much worse in the Scherzer situation. I think a lot of it has to do with Verlander being the home-grown player who has spent his entire career with the Tigers, and the "franchise" along with Cabrera... From Illitch's point of view, he's not going to give equal value or higher (to the Verlander deal) to keep Scherzer, partially out of respect to Verlander.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) What the...I don't even...why would you spend time finding trade possibilities with the Cardinals? That is the absolute last team I would approach about trading Quintana, which is a ridiculous proposition in the first place. Just to illuminate the point that trading Quintana to a contending team that MIGHT want certainty about this year instead of exposing Kelly/Martinez at the back end of the rotation doesn't make sense. Of course, we'd all want Lynn/Miller/Wacha, but we'd end up with Carlos Martinez for Quintana. Would anyone make that trade? That's essentially the argument, that Martinez has the ABILITY to be a 1/2 guy and that Quintana is really a 3/4, and therefore it makes more sense to acquire that guy with six years of cost control at a lower overall salary than what they're going to pay Quintana (which still isn't much, basically one year of Cabrera or Verlander). Or I could just go back to the "cost controlled" Sergio Santos for Nestor Molina blockbuster. Teams aren't going to give up those 1/2 frontline young starting pitching prospects. They'll give up their flawed prospects who have tools but much less likelihood of putting it all together.

But Maryland-Baltimore County isn't exactly a powerhouse baseball program, are they?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) Choo played 150 games in center last season TERRIBLY. How many times did you see him play there? He's a RFer, playing out of position, almost as bad as Nick Swisher in CF. Do you really think the Rangers are ever going to use him there? Maybe 5-6-7 games all season.

And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows. Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him. They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type. So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year. WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) David Wells WAS traded for, not signed. I am amazed that you are somehow forgetting the Toronto trade debacle with Mike Sirotka, but I guess even Caulfield can have a bad memory day And to be honest I thought you were responding to the second part of his statement where he said "I can think of a few instances when one was traded for" And that is why I responded with Garcia Oops. Yeah, I just remember we had him for $9.5 million for one year, and it was a disaster from beginning, the David Wells radio appearance/sniping with Thomas, then both those guys got injured and we had the pleasure of watching Jose Canseco for half a summer. Amazingly enough, after starting out 14-29, they got back up over .500 in the summer but couldn't quite make a run after they fought to get back to that point.

To understand just how terrible the industry reviews are of the Detroit Tigers' deal with Miguel Cabrera, it's appropriate to draw on the examples from the movie industry. The Cabrera deal, in the eyes of rival executives, is "Disaster Movie" bad. The Cabrera deal, in the eyes of officials with other teams, is "Battlefield Earth" bad. It's is "Heaven's Gate" bad. It is "Sahara" bad. (I think he means ISHTAR??) Folks from around the sport believe that Cabrera's deal is a guaranteed loser, and they do not understand what the Tigers could be thinking to sign on for this money pit that they know will have ripple effects on the entire industry. "I just don't get it," one high-ranking NL executive said. "They lost their minds." Said another: "It's an awful deal for the Tigers, and it's worse for baseball." The criticism of the contract should not be confused with criticism of Cabrera, whose skills as a hitter are universally respected. Buster Olney, ESPN blogs

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) Terrible example. Freddy Garcia should be first and foremost He said SIGNED. "I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though." Not traded for/or extended once already on the team...because then you have Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Javy, Garland, etc. The only two that qualify in the last 20-25 years are Navarro and David Wells.

DIVERGENT was okay, but not nearly the cultural "touchstone" as Hunger Games or Twilight. As usual, the books were better, although this first movie does adhere pretty closely to the original source material.

Anything is better than last year. Just to see Eaton and Abreu, maybe Semien, Erik Johnson...maybe it will be a weight off everyone's shoulders when Dunn is gone as well as Konerko and it really feels like a completely fresh start?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 08:01 AM) I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though. It was probably Jamie Navarro, though that's stretching the definition of the phrase top of the rotation. I can recall several instances where they traded for one though, and it was (almost) always at a fair cost. David Wells, 2001

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:52 AM) Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do. It's likely to be someone coming off an injury like Josh Johnson where we can have a club option (at least) on a second year...if they even feel they need to add another pitcher this offseason. Or a Liriano type situation..."change of environment" trade, the pitching equivalent of dealing Beckham or the Borchard/Thornton move back in the day. Finally, the dreaded "character issue" guys, like AJ or Eaton supposedly (I mean, ones that had fallen out of favor a bit in the clubhouse, with their teammates/management).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 07:49 AM) He just turned down 6/$144, which is $24 mill a year, so why would he accept a deal that pays him $21.4 mill a year with an extra year? He is said to want 8 years anyways. There are three rough scenarios that will play out here. 1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him. 2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him. 3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him. Logistically speaking, there is no way the Sox should have any interest in Max Scherzer. When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need. And yet there's not even much of an agreement here whether Justin Masterson constitutes a top of the rotation starter. Tanaka was/is projected to be an "ace," but that's just another version of Jose Abreu risk-wise, with twice the money invested.