caulfield12

Meanwhile, Oakland has won five in a row (two over the Giants) and 10 of their last 11. Keppinger comes through after a prolonged at-bat. Kept making contact...good for him. But now can Flowers drive him in? He should have a decent chance to get to Feldman.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) I want Jordan Danks back up. You're going to bench Viciedo or Dunn, then? If we bring up Danks and Phegley to play everyday, they're punting on the season. That won't be happening. Gillaspie has been our best hitter, after Rios. IF he could just manage 12-15 homers per season, that would be quite valuable.

Even the Cubs can't sell out against the White Sox, lol...lots of seats left, apparently.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) There is no excuse for Dunn there. He did not even look. That is the catchers call though, I wonder if Flowers messed up. One way or the other, you make a decision. Go home or try to start the double play...hesitation killed him. It's what tends to happen when you don't play 1st everyday.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) I love how Danks forgot to cover 1B Didn't matter. When Dunn delayed going home right away on what was a crisply hit ball, the DP was lost. Probably at least 65-70% they turn that DP, 100% DeJesus is out at home unless Dunn throws it away.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:32 PM) I give up. this defense is f***ing hopeless No matter what type of pitching we're getting, it's not nearly enough to overcome this type of putrid defense and offense. Dear John Danks, you can't by pitching from behind in the big leagues for long. Weird that Dunn didn't bother to throw home.....more stupid baseball. DeJesus was dead to rights. Took too long starting the DP, and didn't get that either. Error 2 (this one unofficial) in the inning. Dunn's back in "we can't stand him anymore" mode.

More bad defense. We're going to have to bite the bullet and move Viciedo to 1B next year....his arm/outfield assists can't overcome his lack of range and bad routes, at this point.

Dunn has 43 career homers against the Cubs, Pujols is first among active players with a whopping 53.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) Not at all. Hahn has to get the team that gives Ventura and Cooper the best chance to win games. Things like trade value and value only matter if this team is selling off. Except even if parking Sale in the bullpen gave the Sox a better chance to win for those two years, it wasn't the best thing for the long-term future of the organization to delay his evolution into a starting pitcher. It wasted time. His first season, sure, but not the 2nd. That's the problem. Because he was so effective in his rookie year, it was hard to convince them to take him from a role where he was valuable but 5X less valuable to the organization than as a starter. At any rate, I was referring more to the offseason, not something they will do this June/July.

Beck's best pitch is a sinker? If Shirek was throwing THAT well, up to mid 90's, why didn't he come close to making it?

It's simple. Cooper and Hahn are going to have to pick the guy who has the best future as a starter and deal the other one...it will come down to Santiago vs. Quintana. It's hard to imagine that value being increased by parking Santiago in the bullpen as the long-man or loogy, though. Santiago doesn't ever fit the traditional LH/RH bullpen match-up by the book thing anyway (like Thornton), because of his repertoire.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 29, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) The problem is that our system is so bereft of talent that we have the least amount to offer teams in trades. Right now, there is probably only one player we have that you can say very likely will be an solid ML player (Johnson). I also don't believe Hahn is going to be as reckless in trading cost-controlled players as KW was, especially with starting pitching where average pitchers are getting $10 million per season. Granted, KW traded players who had high value at the time and ended up doing nothing with a couple exceptions (Morse, Hudson, Gio). And Morse was a total bust for the Mariners. Hard to say with the PED's as well, obviously he became productive for the Nationals almost half a decade later, with many stops in-between.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) Here you go taking both sides. The Sox have to trade these guys, but when is the last time any of these prospects actually was worth it? You keep mentioning the "Cardinals model", the "Tigers model", the "Rays model", yet the model that most closely resembles what the rebuilders here want to do is the Mariners model. The Mariners have been selecting dud minor league hitters for years. Remember Jeremy Reed. Smoak and Montero continue the tradition. You're forgetting Ackley. Although Seager hasn't been too bad. But he's not the kind of hitter you build your team around. And it goes back and forth, lol. If we do rebuild, we cannot fall into any other set of results other than the Astros or Mariners? If you look at how badly most of KW's moves have been ever since the Viciedo signing, and we're still a .500 team, you'd have to think we would be due for a change in "luck" at some point, right? And nobody that knew his limitations was all that high on Jeremy Reed...he was the equivalent of a Duke basketball player who looked great on paper but didn't have the raw tools and physical ability to translate that into results at the highest level. It's one of the reasons the White Sox have steered away from limited potential/collegiate outfielders for most of the past decade. Borchard, Mitchell and even Fields all fell into the unrefined athlete/toolsy/multi-sport star model. For every example from the Astros or Mariners, there's ones like Colon for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips. (This is where 15 people will jump in and argue those kinds of trades with 2-3 Top 100 prospects going back and forth just don't happen in this day and age of baseball.)

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:24 AM) If the Sox are so worried about Phegley handling the pitchers just have the guy DH over bum Dunn. And catch sometimes to get him accumulated with the pitchers. I am sure there is a way we can have him play 4 or 5 games a week with catching once or twice. This is back to the Lillibridge vs. Dunn 2011 argument, all over again. I don't think anyone in the front office is ready to go there, YET. As with Dunn's entire White Sox career over the last two seasons, he's likely to feast on some pretty average pitching in the next month...the weather will be heating up in June, some of those warning track balls or robbed homers (Hicks in MN) will be going out and he'll be looking like the first half 2012 Dunn (for a couple of weeks) and everyone will be forgetting Josh Phegley was mentioned as a possible DH candidate. That said, we do need a reliable RH bat to use against LHP. If they brought in a better catcher, Flowers could take those Dunn AB's against LHPer's, but I don't see the Sox doing that, either. They seem wedded to the notion of playing Dunn nearly everyday for now, and keeping him in the middle of that line-up card.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:19 AM) Totally. Part of the problem is that many of us are still blinded by steroid-era SS syndrome. We have arguably the best defensive SS right now and he's locked up cheap. That's all that should matter. Miguel Tejada took roids. At the rate he's going, he's going to end up with 30+ errors. He's still very good, but that's Jose Valentin territory in 2000. And I have no doubt he'll be in the high 20's in error totals, at least, if they continue to play him everyday without resting him occasionally.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:16 AM) John Buck or someone like John Buck on a John Buck type of deal is a very smart move for the future. I don't care what he's doing now, he's someone who could help us next year and beyond. I've said it over and over, but I hate trying to develop catchers. It's such a hard position, so few come through, and you have to sit there and watch them turn into busts on the Major League field. There are probably a lot of things I'd do if I had a time machine, but one of the things I'd do is going back in time to just a few years ago when the Rangers had Saltalamacchia, Teagarden, and Ramirez all garnering attention in the prospect world & then let them know they're all garbage and that you'll be happier with Napoli the butcher who is already on the Angels & an older version of AJ who isn't going to leave the Sox for several more seasons. On the other hand, Miguel Olivo was the key piece with getting Freddy Garcia back, even if Morse turned out to be the better player in the end, and was considered a big guy with not enough power for 3B/LF and too big for SS...more like a super-utility guy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) There are other teams out there that would love to have Alexei. The Yankees and Red Sox would be good starting points. Does trading Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees get you back Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, Mark Montgomery or Ramon Flores? Secondly, other than Austin Jackson, when's the last time a Yankees' prospect made a big impact?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:59 AM) Why is trading Santiago or Johnson a big risk, but trading a former Cy Young award winner who is healthy again, and has been performing tremendously, not? Seems to me trading guys who actually have shown they are great major league players is far more a risk than trading maybes. I understand I am on Soxtalk and Santiago is a guy who is going to win 5 or 6 Cy Youngs if he is just handled properly and Johnson is can't miss, but success in the minor leagues does not equal success in the majors. Go to baseball reference and check out Rod Bolton. First, look at his minor league stats prior to his White Sox call up, and tell me how much Soxtalk would be raving. The Sox wouldn't have needed Black Jack. Then look what happened when he got his shot. I hope Johnson and Santiago pan out, and are at least 25% as great as some around here think they are, but until it really happens, Peavy is the safer choice. And if Eduardo Escobar was the Sox starting 3B, you still would be arguing the same things about him. If you play a bunch of rookies, chances are, you aren't going to win. Not everyone is Mike Trout. Rodney Bolton? Seriously? I remember following the team religiously at that time, and never once thinking he was going to amount to something. It's not like we're talking Wilson Alvarez, Bere, Alex Fernandez here...(or Daniel Hudson, or Gio Gonzalez, etc.) Yes, you would think Peavy is the safer choice, but once again, the calculation is how much value are we losing in trade return if he goes through another 2nd half like 2012? Sure, he could completely change the trend and beat the Tigers 3-4-5 times head-to-head and lead the White Sox to the playoffs, anything is POSSIBLE. To me, the biggest concern isn't so much with his age as his health, taking on the workload he was burdened with by Ventura/Cooper last season. Verducci Effect, etc. And going through the next 26 games, it's likely that Peavy will STILL look more like a Cy Young Award winner (albeit at 90-92/93 MPH) than the 2nd half 2012 version, which means his trade value would never, ever be any higher. Back to the oft-recurring McCann/Morales/Granderson/Utley scenario. If you can guarantee we bring at least two of those guys into the fold for 2014...then standing pat with Peavy and waiting out the trade market is the better scenario. If, on the other hand, you're left with the Jeff Keppingers, Tyler Flowers and Conor Gillaspies as your biggest moves....and yes, we all realize who's coming off the books contract-wise and the $25 million incoming, keeping Peavy makes less and less sense.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) Look at what Toronto did this winter, I could believe it. But isn't the flip side (from the Marlins/Dodgers' records so far) a rising concern and fear that building teams by adding expensive veteran pieces... going to have more than its fair share of detractors as a philosophy going forward? Those two teams have to be in GM/manager firing modes, not to mention the Angels and Royals. Or look at the Shields for Myers/Odorizzi move. Trying to add that one player to put you over the top when your team is still at least one or two years away can be a career-killer. Just can't believe that someone's going to keep giving up their top young position prospects, when all is said and done. And yes, one realizes you just need ONE team to bite, one Arte Moreno or Illitch who "wants to go for it all," but it just doesn't seem like the type of move the St. Louis Cardinals or really smart organizations (Giants, for example) would make.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) What is the fascination posters have with downgrading the SS position? How does dumping Ramirez for zilch like Marty suggests or getting Hechavarria make the White Sox better now or in the long run? If you can get a consensus Top 50 raw prospect back like Hechavarria for Alexei Ramirez, and the White Sox are 8-9-10 games back on July 15, I don't think any GM in the game wouldn't at least consider it. Otherwise, I would agree that it's better to stand pat at that position and play it out longer with Peavy/Rios...or until Carlos Sanchez has become a legitimate replacement (or not) at 2B/SS. Finally, Gordon Beckham needs the next 2-3 months to show what he can do, too, so they can make a final determination on him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 29, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) If the Sox aren't that far away, why trade guys like Peavy and Rios for prospects who are farther away, if they even get there at all? Even Marty said the rotation is shaping up. How long do rotations stay together? The time to try to win is while Sale's elbow and shoulder are intact. Then what players have "Youkilis-esque" contracts that are that unique combination of 1/2 year commitments, where the veteran player is blocking a youngster and/or that veteran is having a hard time with his current manager and it's best for the team to part ways....almost, to give him away to kill 2 birds with one stone? Because I haven't seen anyone on here advocate trading, let's say, Erik Johnson, to fix the three biggest problems for the current team, which are catcher, Dunn/Konerko/offense from the middle of the line-up, and the bullpen (and that's assuming there's a "smooth" transition to Gordon at 2B and he doesn't hit in the high 500's OPS-wise coming back from that wrist problem) Other than taking on salary, or making Liriano trades that don't affect the core (Escobar/Pedro Hernandez...which would be trading Axelrod, and even many consider him more valuable to the Sox than as someone who could fetch a trade return)...how do you intend to do that? It seems the only way would be to trade either Johnson or Santiago. Are you willing to take that risk? If you look at it from another perspective, we "went for it" last year at mid-season and still came up short. We didn't have a player (Escobar) who could have entered 2013 as the starting 3B, so we he had to overpay on Keppinger...which isn't a HUGE contract, but it was brought about, once again, because of lack of minor league depth. (And, no, we can't say that ANYONE would have predicted Gillaspie could be the starter against both LHP and RHP before the season). Are we honestly going to be closer to getting to the playoffs this year than last year? How can you make that case, if we're 5 games back, let's say, rather than 3-5 games ahead?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 29, 2013 -> 07:52 AM) Ramirez has a very team friendly contract at this point in time. $7 mill this year, $9 mill next year, $10 mill in '15, $10 mill team option or a $1 mill buy out in 2016. He still has a ton of value, and if the Sox think that they will need to tear the team apart, he is going to be one of the most valuable trade pieces they have. They wouldn't "unload" that contract because there would be a ton of teams lining up to trade for him. I strongly doubt they will tear the team apart, and I don't foresee Alexei playing elsewhere any time soon. Let's say Reyes to the Blue Jays didn't materialize...you really believe they would have taken Alexei's contract obligations on and given us, let's say, Hechavarria straight up for him? Just looking at his year over year declining OPS numbers (especially homers and XB hits), his age...his high error totals this year (part of that's on Ventura and by association, Hahn, for not being able to rest him), I just don't see that as being a sure thing that he's going to fetch a consensus Top 50 player back. Cardinals, same thing...do you believe we could actually get Carpenter/Adams, etc., or would we be speculating on minor league pieces (and not one of their top cadre of minor league pitchers)?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1915154.story Jones not going down to the minors anytime soon. Cooper has a HUGE face in that video, haha. A bit scary.

Moore said a demotion to AAA Omaha is not in the offing for Moustakas (although for our purposes, it might as well be Tyler Flowers). For now, anyway. “There are three basic processes that I challenge myself with when sending a player down,” Moore said. “Is this struggling player staying positive and working hard? Does the coaching staff remain positive in this struggling player? And do his teammates continue to rally around this struggling player? “As long as those three things are occurring, it’s very difficult as a general manager to make a change. You’ve got to trust the people that you’ve hired to help this player get through it. “But no doubt — there comes a point in time if a player continues to struggle and we think we need a mental break and one of those processes breaks down that you have to evaluate it. And then you want to next look at what’s the alternative.” Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/05/28/42612...l#storylink=cpy

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 28, 2013 -> 10:44 PM) Age appropriate K/9 above 9 at AA while maintaining a decent walk rate. Why isn't he still starting this season? Numbers game? Because he's perceived to be behind Thompson, Snodgress and Beck? What is his repertoire? Maybe relieving is a faster path to the big leagues in his case, with a logjam in Chicago/AAA, but that's usually not the prime consideration when positioning a player as a reliever or starter in the lower minors.