caulfield12

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 28, 2013 -> 09:35 PM) Griffith was a second round pick that had Tommy John. He had big upside once upon a time. My list: Webb Petricka Vance Salvador Sanchez (seriously 18 K against 0 BB) Don't care after that Why Vance? Know he was a starter last season, and pretty sure he's from UConn. What would make him a standout reliever?

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...?P=Jason-Grilli Ironic that he got caught up in a numbers game with the Sox (with the additions of Contreras and Garcia) and ended up with the Tigers in 2005/06/07/08. Amazing that a guy coming into the season at age 36 with 5 career saves is now 21/21. Story of the year...along with the Dodgers, Angels and Blue Jays not exactly buying their way into the playoffs quite yet.

Grilli is just dominating with that slider. Wiped out Cabrera and Hunter with that pitch. Still throwing 93-94-95 MPH with the heater at age 36. FWIW, Don Cooper really helped Grilli out a lot, too. He just wasn't destined to make it as a starter from the time he was drafted by the SF Giants. Struck out the side....got Fielder on a ball out of the zone. Wow. Sox still only 2 behind the Indians, 4 1/2 behind DET. Got lucky tonight with the rain-out.

In the end, if Illitch can win a World Series, he'll inevitably argue all those contracts (Verlander and Fielder, in particular) were worth it.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ May 28, 2013 -> 09:02 PM) That entire bullpen has been money. I believe they are towards the top in MLB.....seem to be really overachieving when going through the names in the pen. We actually brought Jason Grilli back from the dead about a decade ago when he was a busted prospect. Can't believe he's STILL around. Shows you everything you need to know about bullpens...like Cotts/Politte in 2005, or Veal's success last year. You're always going to need a little luck. And Melancon's a former closer. Neil Walker homer in top of the 11th reminiscent of Geoff Blum in Game 3 of the 2005 World Series...kind of came out of nowhere. 1-0 Pirates. Grilli 20/20 in converting save opportunities 1/3rd of the way through the season. That's almost unbelievable.

This Wilson kid pitching for the Pirates (against the Tiggers) out of the pen now is quite impressive. He just threw a 93 MPH slider/cutter. He's Matt Thornton in his prime, easy motion...failed starter, very similar. 0-0 going to the 10th inning. Pirates' starter was former Indian Jeanmar Gomez.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:23 PM) Which is the biggest reason no one should be freaking out about him now. If he didn't have enough to make this organizations top 25 list before this season (and we all know how easy that was), there really isn't anything he could have changed in two months that would have turned him into a starting MLB caliber catcher, short of meeting Barry Bonds trainer. He does have two arguments in his favor. Relatively high draft pick, and the freakish illness...that sidelined him early in his career. And 25 isn't too old for a catcher who was drafted from university, it's probably more or less the average (24-26). With the illnesses and injuries, just like Jared Mitchell, it would take a LOT for fans to have much faith in those guys again. So Phegley really has had to overcome a ton of skepticism to get back to "prospect" (not suspect) status.

Have they announced if they're going to stay with their normal rotation order or move Sale up a day or two to rest another starter?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 08:17 PM) Basically, this game never happened. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Only if they got past 5 1/2 innings and it was tied or an official game...this game is GONE.

QUOTE (VAfan @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:18 PM) The point I would make about Dunn is that his power production is just as useful at the bottom of the lineup, because HRs by necessity score runs. But his strike outs just kill any chance of putting together innings where you get a couple of hits, perhaps steal a base, and drive runs in that way. Dunn is next to useless in that capacity, esp. since his walk rate is down. Give me Rios, Viciedo and Gillaspie back to back to back and you've got a chance to score. But what Ventura has done has isolated Rios from anyone behind him who can actually move him over or in with something less than a HR. I would generally agree, however, with the sentiment that the Sox aren't going to be able to compete with Dunn and Konerko not hitting like valuable 4-5 guys. Still, that doesn't excuse the person I blame most in this post -- Robin Ventura. If you think about it, Konerko certainly has no future with the Sox, and once his contract is over, neither does Dunn. So why not move Viciedo and Gillaspie into bigger roles, since they likely have a future with the team that goes beyond this season? As I said, he's playing names, not the players he has before him in 2013. And THAT's BAD MANAGEMENT. It's bad enough, that if he did it all season, I think I'd start looking for someone else to take the helm. We had the same debate in 2011 when you could argue that Lillibridge or Viciedo could take AB's from Dunn...where the season felt lost and yet Ozzie kept trotting him out there. The difference back then was the 3 1/2 years left on his contract, vs. 1 1/2 seasons now. At some point, it's just a sunk cost and loss and you move on without worrying about protecting him, his feelings, his being a veteran or trying to build up ANY kind of trade value to get something back in return. And yes, right now, Rios/Viciedo/Gillaspie are the three most consistently dangerous hitters in the line-up. In fact, I remember Greg775 starting lots of conversations defending Ozzie (and Rongey) for leaving Dunn in the middle of line-up no matter what your eyes were telling you (which is that he was completely lost for the season).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:22 PM) It's really not. That's what's so bizarre. What do you think is the likely outcome of having 19 of the final 76 games versus the Tigers. Think the pitching staff won't be stressed beyond its limits? When that happens all hell is going to break loose. Not really. Apathy will set in. People will stop caring or switch their interest to the football season. If you can't get fans excited about Cubs/Sox this year, I find it hard to imagine a fan uprising about the pitching staff going south in the 2nd half when everyone expects it based on the workload from 2012 anyway.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) Can I have the players ages? Well, Robin Ventura was probably the most famous collegiate player selected in that draft...because of Oklahoma State's program, exposure from the College World Series, his long long hitting streak, high first rounder, etc. It's hard to compare him to Phegley, who I'm sure about 85-90% of the White Sox fan-base doesn't even know exists yet unless they're paying close attention to Harrelson when he talks about the minor league results.

I guess Molina being injury-prone is karma for Sirotka and Santos. Almost wouldn't be fair if he went on to become a stud for the Sox.

One thing that's not encouraging tonight. If Porcello finally gets it together (shut out in the late innings with 10 K's against a good Pirates team), then you can forget chasing down the Tigers in the 2nd half. And the Royals have to be THIS close to firing Ned Yost...down to the Cardinals again. 2 more at StL, then going to the weekend to face the Rangers. Perfect storm.

I would guess, if they do finish it, this would be the least well-attended game in Sox/Cubs history since 1997...

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) Phegley doubles in his first AB Stop stirring things up, haha. I bet he and his family would enjoy reading through all the threads at SoxTalk today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:15 PM) Getting bent out of shape about a sixth inning reliever does tell me a lot. In fairness, that's been a critical spot in some of our losses, with starters like Quintana, Axelrod and Santiago often unable to get out of the 5th or 6th. If it's Santiago to be used there (when we have leads and not in mop up mode), that's one thing. But there's always going to be a hole in the pen if we're simply relying on Jones to turn things around, or Lindstrom/Thornton/Crain to pitch multiple innings to get to the 9th. Stretching Reed into multiple innings saves isn't the best idea, either.

QUOTE (balfanman @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:13 PM) If we would of gotten Chavez there is a good chance that Gillaspie would be elsewhere. I would rather see what Gillaspie has to offer for a whole season. So far, so good. Good point. Or he'd be in AAA as additional depth with Morel and we wouldn't know what we have yet....since Eric Chavez clearly is a "win now" player, and not part of the future.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) Calos Sanchez at short anytime this year. If they do go into sell-off mode in July and one of those players traded/dumped is Ramirez, fans would be MORE upset if Keppinger was playing SS than Sanchez. Because everyone knows he can't play that position. Sanchez MIGHT end up being a utility player instead of a starter, but the only way to find out is by playing him and determining what his limitations are. And he might not come into his own as a player until he's 23 or 24 or 25....or he could end up just as another version of Eduardo Escobar, we have no idea yet. Otherwise, you're either forcing Beckham off 2nd....or you're really down to C and D options like Saladino/Semien at BIRM. In all likelihood, one of those sell-off trades would bring in another SS prospect if they honestly felt Sanchez wasn't the future and they were more than likely going to shift him to 2B, with Beckham possibly gone as well if he didn't hit more than 625 or 650. This team can survive with Beckham as their 7th-9th hitter playing Gold Glove defense and OPSing in the low 600's, but not without huge offensive output from other players...and not as part of their rebuilding plan.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) I don't see enough evidence that they are trying to win. If they had signed Greinke, AJ and Josh Hamilton, would we be in first place right now? Probably not. Would that not be enough sufficient evidence we were trying to win? But then, when nobody was coming to the park because the team was STILL in 2nd or 3rd place and still trailing the Tigers and they were forced to trade off other contracts like Peavy, Thornton, Rios, Crain, Ramirez because the payroll couldn't be sustained in the face of diminished incoming revenues, etc., would you blame the fans or Reinsdorf/KW/Hahn?

Ramon Troncoso is not going to be a part of a White Sox World Series team, that much is guaranteed...

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) Probably not. The Sox seem to be really bad in developing catchers. I don't think I can even name a Sox catcher after Fisk and before AJ. So they had to get them via free agency. AJ had a high baseball IQ and it came from another organization. This is probably the least glamorous position in baseball after the careers of Bench, Fisk, Munson and Simmons came to an end. I would imagine any organization that has a good hitting catcher converts them to another position. It's probably hard to find a good coach at this position. You can add a few names in there, like Gary Carter, I-Roid and Piazza....but yeah, it's been barren. I remember Joel Skinner, drafting Kurt Brown, Mark Johnson was a relatively high draft pick we tried to nurture along but he just couldn't hit very well, Ron Karkovice Squad. Even going back to a decade ago, we had to add guys like Charles Johnson/Fordyce from other organizations. Seems we always were bringing in past their prime veterans from other teams like Spanky Lavalliere or Jorge Fabregas.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:25 PM) Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes. I'll believe it when I see it....competing for a player who's going to get a $100+ million contract. That said, it isn't the organizational approach of the White Sox, and unless they hit the nail on the button (the equivalent of Miguel Cabrera), then it's too dangerous. That said, if you add Dunn and Danks together, they're in that $100 million category...just better to spread your risk, it's like buying a mutual fund vs. individual stocks. You limit your upside/ceiling return, but you also protect yourself from completely whiffing on a deal and bottoming out completely or going bankrupt or exposed to a margin call.

The question isn't "Do we have the money?" It's whether we can convince those guys like Morales, Granderson, Utley, McCann (the names we keep throwing out, and I'm sure there are 4-6 more) to sign with the Sox. It seems that the answer revolves around the catching spot (there has to be major improvement/better leadership) and finding another bat to replace Konerko. There's nothing we can really do about Dunn, besides hope he doesn't completely implode. If we found those two players....we'd have a good chance of competing for a playoff spot. Not sure about pronouncing them a World Series team without knowing the health of our starting pitchers this time next year. And we're either going to have to hope that guys like Webb and Santos Rodriguez are ready to pitch next season in the big leagues or it's going to be expensive to replace Thornton/Crain/Lindstrom....as KW learned on the Dotel/Linebrink deals. So that's at least 3 major areas of need...can those spots be filled with that amount of money, assuming JR signs off on "go for it" in 2014.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) The actions this offseason definitely were not of an organization in win-now mode, in my opinion. It was more like "stand pat" mode, except for Peavy. But if they really weren't going for it...at best, bringing Peavy has only succeeded in basically making us a 78-84 win team instead of a mid to low 70's team (assuming they were starting Santiago/Axelrod in that spot). In some ways, though, it's almost like the end of last season was MORE demoralizing than not being in the pennant race all season long...it seems counter-intuitive, but it feels like "we tried our best, the Tigers were better in the end, then the Tigers seemingly went out and improved, and there's really not much we can do about it for now." The division lead now for the Tigers is "only" 5 games, and there's a possibility we could be in 1st or near there at the end of this stretch against bad teams...but I just don't see how we can legitimately compete with them without adding to our offense. Nor do you see a realistic scenario where you can go into July trailing them by 5-6-7-8 games and make that deficit up. They aren't the 2003 Royals, doing it with smoke and mirrors, where everyone is just waiting for a collapse. And they aren't the 2008 Twins, either.