caulfield12

One thing that's not encouraging tonight. If Porcello finally gets it together (shut out in the late innings with 10 K's against a good Pirates team), then you can forget chasing down the Tigers in the 2nd half. And the Royals have to be THIS close to firing Ned Yost...down to the Cardinals again. 2 more at StL, then going to the weekend to face the Rangers. Perfect storm.

I would guess, if they do finish it, this would be the least well-attended game in Sox/Cubs history since 1997...

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:42 PM) Phegley doubles in his first AB Stop stirring things up, haha. I bet he and his family would enjoy reading through all the threads at SoxTalk today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:15 PM) Getting bent out of shape about a sixth inning reliever does tell me a lot. In fairness, that's been a critical spot in some of our losses, with starters like Quintana, Axelrod and Santiago often unable to get out of the 5th or 6th. If it's Santiago to be used there (when we have leads and not in mop up mode), that's one thing. But there's always going to be a hole in the pen if we're simply relying on Jones to turn things around, or Lindstrom/Thornton/Crain to pitch multiple innings to get to the 9th. Stretching Reed into multiple innings saves isn't the best idea, either.

QUOTE (balfanman @ May 28, 2013 -> 03:13 PM) If we would of gotten Chavez there is a good chance that Gillaspie would be elsewhere. I would rather see what Gillaspie has to offer for a whole season. So far, so good. Good point. Or he'd be in AAA as additional depth with Morel and we wouldn't know what we have yet....since Eric Chavez clearly is a "win now" player, and not part of the future.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) Calos Sanchez at short anytime this year. If they do go into sell-off mode in July and one of those players traded/dumped is Ramirez, fans would be MORE upset if Keppinger was playing SS than Sanchez. Because everyone knows he can't play that position. Sanchez MIGHT end up being a utility player instead of a starter, but the only way to find out is by playing him and determining what his limitations are. And he might not come into his own as a player until he's 23 or 24 or 25....or he could end up just as another version of Eduardo Escobar, we have no idea yet. Otherwise, you're either forcing Beckham off 2nd....or you're really down to C and D options like Saladino/Semien at BIRM. In all likelihood, one of those sell-off trades would bring in another SS prospect if they honestly felt Sanchez wasn't the future and they were more than likely going to shift him to 2B, with Beckham possibly gone as well if he didn't hit more than 625 or 650. This team can survive with Beckham as their 7th-9th hitter playing Gold Glove defense and OPSing in the low 600's, but not without huge offensive output from other players...and not as part of their rebuilding plan.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) I don't see enough evidence that they are trying to win. If they had signed Greinke, AJ and Josh Hamilton, would we be in first place right now? Probably not. Would that not be enough sufficient evidence we were trying to win? But then, when nobody was coming to the park because the team was STILL in 2nd or 3rd place and still trailing the Tigers and they were forced to trade off other contracts like Peavy, Thornton, Rios, Crain, Ramirez because the payroll couldn't be sustained in the face of diminished incoming revenues, etc., would you blame the fans or Reinsdorf/KW/Hahn?

Ramon Troncoso is not going to be a part of a White Sox World Series team, that much is guaranteed...

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 28, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) Probably not. The Sox seem to be really bad in developing catchers. I don't think I can even name a Sox catcher after Fisk and before AJ. So they had to get them via free agency. AJ had a high baseball IQ and it came from another organization. This is probably the least glamorous position in baseball after the careers of Bench, Fisk, Munson and Simmons came to an end. I would imagine any organization that has a good hitting catcher converts them to another position. It's probably hard to find a good coach at this position. You can add a few names in there, like Gary Carter, I-Roid and Piazza....but yeah, it's been barren. I remember Joel Skinner, drafting Kurt Brown, Mark Johnson was a relatively high draft pick we tried to nurture along but he just couldn't hit very well, Ron Karkovice Squad. Even going back to a decade ago, we had to add guys like Charles Johnson/Fordyce from other organizations. Seems we always were bringing in past their prime veterans from other teams like Spanky Lavalliere or Jorge Fabregas.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 28, 2013 -> 02:25 PM) Don't have the slightest idea. But the White Sox generally spend money the public knows is available. They will be able to bid with anyone on any player they choose. That doesn't happen often. They will have as much payroll flexibility has they have had in our lifetimes. I'll believe it when I see it....competing for a player who's going to get a $100+ million contract. That said, it isn't the organizational approach of the White Sox, and unless they hit the nail on the button (the equivalent of Miguel Cabrera), then it's too dangerous. That said, if you add Dunn and Danks together, they're in that $100 million category...just better to spread your risk, it's like buying a mutual fund vs. individual stocks. You limit your upside/ceiling return, but you also protect yourself from completely whiffing on a deal and bottoming out completely or going bankrupt or exposed to a margin call.

The question isn't "Do we have the money?" It's whether we can convince those guys like Morales, Granderson, Utley, McCann (the names we keep throwing out, and I'm sure there are 4-6 more) to sign with the Sox. It seems that the answer revolves around the catching spot (there has to be major improvement/better leadership) and finding another bat to replace Konerko. There's nothing we can really do about Dunn, besides hope he doesn't completely implode. If we found those two players....we'd have a good chance of competing for a playoff spot. Not sure about pronouncing them a World Series team without knowing the health of our starting pitchers this time next year. And we're either going to have to hope that guys like Webb and Santos Rodriguez are ready to pitch next season in the big leagues or it's going to be expensive to replace Thornton/Crain/Lindstrom....as KW learned on the Dotel/Linebrink deals. So that's at least 3 major areas of need...can those spots be filled with that amount of money, assuming JR signs off on "go for it" in 2014.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 28, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) The actions this offseason definitely were not of an organization in win-now mode, in my opinion. It was more like "stand pat" mode, except for Peavy. But if they really weren't going for it...at best, bringing Peavy has only succeeded in basically making us a 78-84 win team instead of a mid to low 70's team (assuming they were starting Santiago/Axelrod in that spot). In some ways, though, it's almost like the end of last season was MORE demoralizing than not being in the pennant race all season long...it seems counter-intuitive, but it feels like "we tried our best, the Tigers were better in the end, then the Tigers seemingly went out and improved, and there's really not much we can do about it for now." The division lead now for the Tigers is "only" 5 games, and there's a possibility we could be in 1st or near there at the end of this stretch against bad teams...but I just don't see how we can legitimately compete with them without adding to our offense. Nor do you see a realistic scenario where you can go into July trailing them by 5-6-7-8 games and make that deficit up. They aren't the 2003 Royals, doing it with smoke and mirrors, where everyone is just waiting for a collapse. And they aren't the 2008 Twins, either.

The problem with Danks NOT pitching now....if he is on the mound, we're not in "win now" mode, if he's struggling, still rehabbing or not pitching, it's a bad contract extension. You have to pick which scenario to go with.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 28, 2013 -> 06:32 AM) I was all over Dunn a few weeks ago and even advocated flat out releasing him he was so bad. But the timing of this thread is pretty silly considering he's actually been a very beneficial player to this club over the past couple weeks. You do know he had a 1/21 streak in the last week, don't you?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:33 AM) I love how the guy on this site who thinks that dismantling the team and going with a multi year youth movement has zero patience for trying to actually develop youth. Well, the way around that is to call someone "non-core." Even though catcher is arguably one of the three most important positions on the team. So, in other words, everyone in the line-up can/should be susceptible to benchings/trades except for Sale, Peavy, Quintana and maybe Santiago and Viciedo (there were many who wanted Dayan platooned or even traded last season, and I'm sure it will come up again if he struggles against RHP or power pitchers). Unless you're also going to accept Rios and Peavy as the "core." Well, they ARE the heart of the current core, but they won't be part of the next playoff team, just like Konerko, Ramirez, Crain, etc.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:31 AM) There's value in making decisions quickly. You might get burned from time-to-time, but when it comes to non-core players I'm fine with making a mistake in the interest of time. Then, as we've seen with every Sox position prospect of the last decade...he falls flat on his face....what do you do? Now you're REALLY in desperation mode. You can't tell opposing GM's, well, maybe I really don't need to trade for your veteran catcher...all my scouts are telling me Phegley's ready and 100% healthy. If you go back to Flowers after basically saying he's not going to cut it, the odds of him turning it around and having the full faith and confidence of his teammates and coaching staff after that happens are about 10%. The starting catcher is like the quarterback of the team. Once you put your faith in someone else, it's hard to go back to that guy because you didn't trust him enough to leave him as the starter in the first place.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 28, 2013 -> 06:30 AM) Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee they aren't worried about service time and starting Phegley's arb clock I can see if it's Courtney Hawkins, or even one of your top 2-3 prospects that you build a franchise around. If they really thought Phegley gave them a better chance to win now and were ready to give up on Tyler Flowers, then I'm 100% convinced they would make the move tomorrow. The odds of Josh Phegley being the starting catcher for the White Sox in 5-6 years are about 2-3%, at best. And the White Sox have never operated like the Marlins, with an eye more towards saving money than winning games in the current season. It's the back-up quarterback syndrome. Even going back to some of the interesting debates (playing Viciedo mostly against LHP in 2010 instead of playing everyday, Lillibridge vs. Dunn in 2011, or Viciedo vs. Pierre), there's always been solid reasoning behind NOT making the moves that everyone wanted to see...if for no other reason than for the sake of change or seeing something different. In retrospect, Ozzie might was arguably right about not prematurely anointing Gordon Beckham as the face of the franchise, as well. Sometimes we want to blame him for everything (looking back on him as the villain), but it's pretty hard to see things in that light when players like Brian Anderson never did a thing after they left the Sox. Some at this site are equating Josh Phegley and his service clock with Wil Myers or Miguel Sano.

QUOTE (Tex @ May 28, 2013 -> 07:06 AM) Which is one reason I have never gotten that much excited at the MLB draft and my pulse barely bumps at guys that are 26-40 on the 40-man roster. I'll take prospects for MLB ready players almost everyday. Which worked most of the time for KW to be able to flip those guys for the Carlos Quentins of the world. The problem arose when our system was so bereft off talent that we couldn't make legitimate plays for the Miggy Cabreras...superstar-caliber talent to build a franchise around. And it works as long as you don't give up quality young starting pitching (Gio and Hudson) for players who don't get you into the post-season or who have much less value than when you traded for them (Swisher) or are traded for less than their worth (Santos/Jackson) for payroll reasons. Then you end up with a cycle where you have less and less talent on the major league roster...and you don't have any avenues for acquiring new talent without taking on additional payroll or dumping players who can actually help you win now for players who MIGHT help you win in the future and for a bit longer window.

Of course, the Cubs' beat writer for the Sun-Times (Gordon Wittenmeyer) would pronounced him "the city's ace." As if an All-America football career spent getting slammed by NFL-bound safeties wasn’t enough to prove his fearlessness and competitiveness, there was Samardzija on Monday night, pitching the best game of his professional career on what’s probably the biggest stage he’ll be on this season. His first complete game. A two-hit shutout. The tone-setter in the four-day Crosstown Showdown. The power. The swagger. The future. The ace. Forget Chris Sale. The Cubs right-hander is Chicago’s pitching ace, as he proved in Monday’s 7-0 victory at U.S. Cellular Field. “That football mentality helps,” said teammate James Russell, who’s been around big-league baseball since his dad, Jeff, made All-Star teams as a starter, then a reliever. “He instills that fear in the batter, which a lot of guys don’t do.” On Monday, Samardzija had a 98 mph fastball working in the first inning, threw 97 on his 100th pitch and until a one-out walk in the ninth had faced just one batter over the minimum. “He was as good as anyone we’ve seen,” said Sox manager Robin Ventura, who compared him to young power-pitching Mets phenom Matt Harvey — a guy Ventura compared to Tigers ace Justin Verlander just a few weeks ago. Harvey. Verlander. “Stuff-wise, he’s as good as it gets in my opinion,” said Sox third-baseman Conor Gillaspie — the only South Sider with a hit until the ninth — of Samardzija. What about Nationals phenom Stephen Strasburg? Former MVP Joey Votto of the Reds drew that comparison when talking to a Cubs coach this season — and then said it was no comparison. He’d rather face Strasburg, he told the coach. Russell, one of Samardzija’s closer friends in the clubhouse, isn’t surprised by the comparisons. “He’s a little harder mentally and stronger physically than a lot of those guys out there,” Russell said. “Yeah, Strasburg’s got 98 [mph], but you’re not as timid getting in the box against him as you would be against somebody like Jeff.” That’s why Samardzija is the front office’s next priority. Why he’s the manager’s best hope for a turnaround anytime soon. Why he’s Chicago’s ace. No doubt Sale has the recent results and the stuff from all those knobby left-handed angles. But he also has the recent bouts of soreness, the toothpick frame and the hold-your-breath mechanics with that skinny body that doesn’t inspire nearly the long-term confidence as the power-throwing Cubs ace with the Notre Dame football frame.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 27, 2013 -> 09:57 PM) I'd say no way they draw 30000 for a game the rest of the season unless it's in the playoffs. If they were between 10 and 15 over .500 and the kids are still out of school, maybe for a Friday or Saturday night game. If they are a team with this kind of record, no way. This Cub game proves that. 10,000 Cub fans and 30,000 total? Wow. We have pretty much a loyal fan base of about 20,000 on a given night, right?? 21,678 is our average after Monday night's game.

Didn't realize it was his first career shutout. Oh, well. Tip your cap, haha. Even Gillapsie used that quote in his post-game interview.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,5758807.column Phil Rogers column. Dunn basically says the offense will sink or swim with him....Phil notes he's only a .181 hitter in in his almost 2 1/2 years in a White Sox uniform. And a new saying, "The margin for errors is slim."

Service time would be a pretty surprising reason for holding Phegley back, since he wasn't close to being considered the catcher of the future until these first 2 months of 2013... I don't think anyone in the organization was projecting him as a potential starting catcher at the major league level based on his health and what we'd seen so far. That said, Flowers seems to be really struggling with the daily grind, and that's hard to understand at his age and with an entire off-season to prepare for the starting role, knowing AJ wasn't coming back. It's also disappointing he's been suffering some aches and pains...like back spasms in the last week...without really playing at anywhere near the level of innings/pitches caught AJ averaged in his sleep even in his mid 30's.

Service time would be a pretty surprising reason for holding Phegley back, since he wasn't close to being considered the catcher of the future until these first 2 months of 2013... I don't think anyone in the organization was projecting him as a potential starting catcher at the major league level based on his health and what we'd seen so far. That said, Flowers seems to be really struggling with the daily grind, and that's hard to understand at his age and with an entire off-season to prepare for the starting role, knowing AJ wasn't coming back. It's also disappointing he's been suffering some aches and pains...like back spasms in the last week...without really playing at anywhere near the level of innings/pitches caught AJ averaged in his sleep even in his mid 30's.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 27, 2013 -> 09:15 PM) This organization has a history of waiting too long to fix fixable problems. In that light, Phegley still being at Charlotte is no surprise. They also have shown a lot of patience with pitchers, guys like Danks and Gavin Floyd...Contreras...Jenks...Santos...Humber...Quintana...Santiago, etc. "Fixable" depends on the definition. What's eminently "fixable" to you might not be to others. Some might think that promoting Phegley will automatically bring with it better results. There is ton of inside information we aren't privy to in terms of the personnel decisions going on behind the scenes. Surely, it's an everyday conversation between the AAA coaching staff and the Chicago brain-trust about Phegley vs. Flowers. There are specific things that are being looked at, measured, analyzed.