caulfield12

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 01:04 AM) No doubt. Apparently, in 2011, the most efficient way to restock the farm is to keep your good or "better" players and trade your bad ones. Only way to do business. lol. Just reread what you quoted. Of course. "If you want our defensively-challenged, injury-prone OF who we only have under control for one more year...you must take one of the most overpaid, perpetually underachieving players in baseball with him. The ball is in your court. We don't have to do anything." Or you can have John Danks, Alexei Ramirez, Matt Thornton AND a serving of Rios on the side, to go with the division crown for whatever respective league you're playing in. So why not add about $150-175 million to your team payroll in future salary commitments, it's Christmastime, right?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 11:20 PM) Yup, I expect them to step it up as well. It IS baseball thou - anything can happen. Dunn could hit 40 bomb - or 12... either wouldn't surprise me. Rios could be totally worthless or put up a 4 WAR - either wouldn't surprise me. Humber could throw to a ~1 WHIP or could put up a 1.5 - either wouldn't surprise me. It's gonna be an interesting 2012 - but I'm not expecting us to beat Detroit this year. The other thing that really threw a lot of observers for a loop is how well Peralta played, both offensively and even defensively. Seemed his career was winding down in a backwards direction with the Indians. Boesch and Jackson weren't nearly as good as 2010, Ordonez and C. Guillen were non-factors, and they still were pretty darned impressive. Obviously, they had some offensive struggles from time to time, as can be expected with any club.

Cooper MIGHT NOT be able to fix Heath (no relation to Phillips). Maybe Greg Walker can?

Cooper MIGHT NOT be able to fix him.

QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) Haven't heard the White Sox are going make Stewart a short reliever. I could see him in the long reliever spot since there is no opening for starters right now. And we also have Axelrod who could start and then Molina hopefully coming up soon. Right now I think that Reed has to get the job (by default really) . Crain backing Reed up if he cannot do the job. Or open competition for the job. But Thornton cannot close. 25 blown saves, 20 saves. That is enough for me. Balta is waiting to go all Incredible Hulk on that idea. With Sale already a potential victim of the bullpen experiment in 2011...trading Santos/moving Sale/Pena departing/trading Thornton and forcing Zach Stewart into a relief role doesn't quite seem to be a good enough payoff for Daniel Hudson. Where it looks like a magical move is if Stewart. Sale and Molina put up Buehrle/Floyd/Hudson/Gio Gonzalez/Edwin Jackson numbers on the board. Otherwise, the future is bleak indeed.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) I'm thinking a full year of Fister will do wonders for them. That's still a big stadium to pitch in, but I don't think he'll repeat his success from last season so easily. We'll just have to wait and see. Porcello and Scherzer remain the keys to that rotation, along with Jacob Turner.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) If I had to guess, I'd say he dumps Quentin, finds a catching prospect to compete with Flowers for AJ's spot after next season, and then acquires a prospect who can hopefully take over for Konerko in 2 years. How he does any of this other than dealing Quentin, I have no idea. He could take a first baseman high in this years draft, but the catching prospect definitely would need to be more seasoned. Now that I think about it, Kenny probably still values Flowers highly enough to have him penciled in as our starter after AJ is gone. Trading Thornton or Floyd is the only way to get that done. Or possibly Crain. Just can't see any scenario yet where they deal Alexei Ramirez or Konerko....not until July, at the earliest. And then we really are rebuilding (officially) if those 2 go.

QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) This team is coming together very nicely. If KW has to cut some salary, there are still a couple guys that he could trade (Thornton, Quentin). If he doesn't then there isn't any rush to make moves. Both Thornton and Quentin might have more value near the trading deadline in 2012. KW has been putting out high prices for our players. Thus, he probably isn't in a rush. Maybe JR said that team salary is in an acceptable range right now. It is lower than 2011. Probably the only big question going into next year right now is who is going to be the closer? A lot of people are saying Addison. Just don't make Thornton the closer if he is on the team. 1. Reed 2. Crain 3. Frasor OR Zach Stewart There's always the chance someone emerges from out of nowhere (like a Scott Radinsky or Boone Logan) and makes the team, but usually it's LH relievers who can jump like that. Soptic is getting some hype just like Nathan Jones did in the past, but there aren't many examples of RH relievers appearing out of thin air. Jenks and Santos are about as good for examples as any, and both were our pet projects.

QUOTE (sunofgold @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 10:10 PM) Could always trade Quentin & trade Rios at some point (trade bad contracts or send a lot of cash). Make an future OF of De Aza, Cespedes, and Viciedo. With Lillibridge as the fourth OF. Just have to be creative. I would like that. We're going to be stuck with Rios for at least another 3-4 months, if not much longer. We simply don't SEND cash to anyone. One of the few times we have done it recently was the Linebrink deal to ATL, and even with the Teahen/Jackson salary dump....we used Jackson's value to get Mark Teahen off the 2012 roster and payroll. KW also FINALLY dumped McDougal off the roster after giving him about 3 opportunities too many. And the jury's still out on whether DeAza will hold up as an everyday player. Pretty good odds, but it's far from a sure thing. Of course, we thought Adam Dunn and Beckham were pretty sure things at one point.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) Hey Balta ... 100% agreed. That was the classic Kenny-move that we all seem to know, that every GM in baseball must know, and that some will defend as "oh, that's just how Kenny is." Yeah, and it sucks. And it hasn't been working all that well. And it means he isn't doing up-until-the-last-minute due diligence by seeking to maximize his trading chips. DISLIKED the over-anxious Santos deal not because I loved Santos, nor because I knew a darned thing about Molina (other than what the very mixed after-the-fact scouting reports disclosed), but because it gave every appearance of being same old "swing-for-the-fences, take the high-risk (the unnecessarily high-risk)" Kenny. My point about being elated if Kenny has now learned some patience was referring to POST-Santos trade. Maybe HIS boss took up back to the woodshed and set him straight. Maybe some trusted elder statesman like Buddy Bell had him look at himself in the mirror. If he had changed it could certainly happen AFTER yet another Kenny moment (that he finally realized WAS a Kenny moment). And, just to be fair, I do always reserve the thought that internally they may know things about Sergio that we don't (perhaps, maxed-out and all down-hill-from-here) and things about Molina that we don't too (despite what some of the naysayers claiming, this guy absolutely being the real enough deal that we must get him). Bottom-line for me is that no one on our roster is going to bring us a Cahill, Latos, or Gio type return, but of any of them, Gavin (or Alexei -- but I don't trade him because I smell the Ramirez-Tank-Cespedes era on the horizon) is the one that if played correctly COULD bring back a relatively decent haul. So, GO KENNY! There's another way of looking at this...because of Paddy, we got in on Molina one step before the rest of baseball was onto him and he became one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. KW has learned his lesssons with closers over the past decade, in terms of not getting too attached to big-name guys like Koch, that he can succeed going on the cheap with the likes of Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenk and Santos. In that case, better to get this Molina kid too early rather than too late, when the cost is Alexei Ramirez, Dayan Viciedo or a starting pitcher who would cripple our big league team's chances going forward. If we didn't have Addison Reed, Crain and Frasor behind Sergio, this move wouldn't have been contemplated, not to mention Zach Stewart. (Yes, it's not the best scenario when Hudson becomes Jackson becomes 2 bullpen guys, granted...but there's also the freedom of getting out of allocating $15 million in payroll and especially dumping Teahen's dead weight from the roster.) Of course, Molina still might become a bust...or he might end up being our equivalent of Johan Santana/Liriano, you never can tell.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 07:37 AM) No, but you can add in the additional element of them being utterly, utterly horrible last year...and then ask how many men (note that I said men, things that used to be men until the steroids removed those organs don't count) significantly improve once they're on the wrong side of 30? By that argument, you should never sign a free agent whose contract covers more 30's than 20's, offer Konerko and AJ extensions...and never should have taken on the Rios contract with the prime of his career behind him. Maybe this Danks move, kicking the tires on Cespedes....is getting back towards that concept of having the majority of the team hitting their 26-29 years together, as much as possible. Of course, that kind of flies in the face of the 2005 team, a team which felt more "veteran led" than one brimming with youngsters in their prime. At the time, the starting rotation seemed to be the one area, with Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Garland and Brandon McCarthy, where the potential existed for them to go on an extended run of dominance if all the right chips fell into place. The only "older" pitchers were El Duque and Contreras.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) If we are in rebuilding mode, could our chances be enhanced by offering him a guaranteed start on the major league roster? (similar to what we did to sign Sale). Not if it means the difference between $25 and $50 million. His agent knows there's always a chance he could flop, and will advise him to get as much guaranteed money as possible. From the player's standpoint, a clear path to the major leagues is important, but anyone spending that type of cash on a prospect is obviously going to make every possible effort to put him in a position to succeed with the big league team in the timeliest realistic fashion. Considering how many prospects we've rushed and the fact that we needed offense big time last year, the non-promotion of Viciedo was one of the most curious decisions by Sox management over the course of last season.

A healthy Jurrjens is worth more than Adam Jones alone. Or at worst, a wash.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:03 AM) I say we sign him for 5 years/$48M. Why? Because I am putting together random numbers. While we're at it, we should just get Yulieski Gourriel and trade Alexei Ramirez for 3 top prospects.

QUOTE (Real @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:09 AM) I don't have an answer for why they picked up his option, but I have quite a few friends who are Yanks fans, and really who doesn't have friends who are Yanks fans.. and they've been telling me for the last TWO years that they can't wait until his contract is up. that option pickup is odd, but it's probably because they didn't have an immediate replacement. the option was picked up before cespedes had his tryouts right? They shouldn't effect each other, since Swisher could have been replaced by a Cuddyer or Kubel had they chosen to go in that direction. The Yankees haven't spent at all this winter, and Cespedes has always been projected as needing at least a half season or more in the minors, so definitely a longer term, not necessarily "win now" move. You can win with Swisher in 2012 and STILL have Cespedes (injury/non-performance insurance) for late 2012 and beyond.

There's not really a reason to expect guys like Dunn, Peavy and Rios to be horrible SIMPLY because they're in their early 30's. AJ and Konerko, you can expect a fall-off, obviously.

QUOTE (Andrew @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 12:45 AM) Not really an area of weakness for the Sox though (except the covering up part). Numbers wise, they've been successfully patching together bullpens with retreads, fix-ums, converts, and trades for awhile now. 2007 was the last disaster in that area. Which led to the signings of Linebrink and Dotel, both overpays in reaction to KW's gambles (assuming Politte/Cotts would last and that Sisco/Aardsma/Masset and random journeymen like Nelson or Mike Myers could cover up holes) with the 2006-07 pens.

QUOTE (Real @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 11:21 PM) he'd go to aa/aaa if the yankees picked him up, NYY cant wait til swishers contract is up Why did they pick up his $10.25 million option for 2012 if they wanted to get rid of him? Lots of Sox fans argue Quentin is too expensive to us now at $6.5-8.0 million.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) I disagree with that...and if he does, he won't be playing here... My guess is if we do make an offer it would be 1/3 that amount.... I'll guess $25-40 million, we'll split the difference and say $32.5 million, a notch above Chapman's deal.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:30 PM) I guess my point is this guy has been hyped a lot before the bidding started. If he were that great, then the Phillies and Yankees would be forking over the cash. It sounds as if the Yankees don't have much interest, or won't bid a lot for him. Maybe this guy is very good, and he wants to come to the Sox just because of Alexei and Viciedo. We'll see. They already have Gardner, Granderson and Swisher for their OF. Pitching is a more critical need, both starting and bullpen.

We outbid 10-12 teams for Viciedo, we had the advantage of the relationships already built with Ramirez and Contreras at that time to use to our advantage. This guy's going to be getting $45-65 million, blowing away the Aroldis Chapman money. I would be a BIT surprised, but not entirely shocked, to see it happen. At this point, dumping Quentin's salary and freeing playing time for Viciedo is more important than what we get back in return via trade. With Cespedes and Viciedo for the corner OF spots, Rios in CF and DeAza/Lillibridge as back-ups, that would give the team a lot of talent and depth. And Cespedes would be in AA to start out with, anyway. Possibly, Konerko could be dealt to free up 1B for Viciedo, with Cespedes/Rios/DeAza/Lilli the outfield. (Albeit not very likely as a scenario.) Theoretically, Viciedo could take all the DUNN DH ab's against LHP and split the rest of his AB's with DeAza in the event of a Cespedes acquisition, but any scenario where Viciedo's not in the everyday line-up isn't ideal for the future. Of course, there's a very good possibility Lillibridge could be needed at 2B if Beckham continues to flop. He also provides insurance/depth (along with Martinez and Escobar) at SS and 3B.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) He would start off in AAA and the Cuban leagues are Independant league level, low A at best. Split the difference. Definitely not Low A. Otherwise, one of their less-heralded prospects in Alexei Ramirez couldn't just show up in the big leagues out of thin air (and thin frame) and have such a major impact. Most put the level at somewhere between High A and AA. Cespedes would undoubtedly start in AA Birmingham, were he to be signed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) That would be dumb. The White Sox are almost certainly not going to be competitive this year, Carlos Quentin has proven to be an inconsistent, injury prone power hitter who is a bad defensive player. He is not a building block and the White Sox, without another single move, will be able to field a competent outfield without him in it. The difference in value between Quentin and Danks is extreme. One is a run of the mill outfielder who will hit a few homers and not much more and the other is a bonafide #2 starting pitcher with the capabilities of being a #1. Beyond any of that, the White Sox have Viciedo waiting in the wings, so Quentin's presence is not a necessity. With how much certainty can you say we're not going to be competitive this year? Stranger things have happened, like 2000, 2005 and 2008. All of those seasons came out of low or lowered expectations. I'm not going to Vegas and betting on it happening, but you can never completely count the Sox out of the AL Central race any season either. But yeah, Viciedo has to play everyday, period.

We also control Alexei Ramirez through 2016. Even moreso than Danks, is he a centerpiece we continue to build around or do me maximize whatever we can get for him now in one of those Sizemore/Phillips/Cliff Lee type blockbuster deals...?

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/6848/deunte-heath He was a starter at Charlotte all last season...did anyone see him pitch there? He was protected over a lot of guys that were more "famous" in our minor league system with the resident experts.