caulfield12

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Interesting line for Aroldis Chapman today: 0.1IP 0H 4R 4ER 4BB That's gone from being one of the gutsiest signings from a small market club to a possible Rick Ankiel/Dontrelle Willis situation rather quickly. He really needs to go back to the minors. Why is Rios trying to pick that ball up with the bare hand and risk the runner getting to 3rd with a misplay? Pretty dangerous on the soggy turf. Well, they got out of it and Mark's ERA is all the way down to a season-low 3.90.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:30 PM) Balta's threats of bringinb back Pierre is making me wish for an 0 for 100 stretch for him. Would he even be moved down in the line-up if that happened? Morneau turned 30 today. As bad as the mess KW has on his hands, the Twins' fiasco will be 10X more difficult to get out of for Bill Smith.

I can honestly say I'd ALMOST rather watch THE ROOMMATE with Minka Kelly and Leighton Meester again, possibly the worst movie ever, than this crap. Even though she can't act a lick, she's hot. Damn you, Jeter.

There's a surprise. A Quentin pop-up and another weak 4-3 groundout by AJ. Ugh. It's beyond Corpseball. Necrophilia Ball.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) No chance, we'll find some other slappy mcsucky hitter. Someone like Nyjer Morgan. Brian Simmons would be better than Juan Pierre. Heck, Chris Singleton could come out of the ESPN broadcasting booth and possibly be better. I wonder if this will go down as the most boring White Sox series of all-time?

With our luck, KW will trade AJ for Jorge Posada and $7 million in cash. Actually, I think I'd still rather see a .165 hitting Posada in our line-up than AJ...it can't be any worse than Manny Ramirez.

If it weren't for the Twins, this team would be the biggest joke in all of baseball. Nearly every single game, our baserunning absolutely kills us. Yesterday, it was Alexei trying to score and being out by nearly 15 feet. The Juan Pierre Retirement Tour continues. You're facing a future Cy Young winner who's 6-0, you go from a 2-0 lead when the wind blows back a sure homer by Ramirez to losing all your momentum in 45 seconds. How many innings have we had that looked promising that just were eviscerated by poor fundamentals and non-execution this year? Yay, we've gained 1 game in the standings in two weeks while the Indians have lost 2 series.

Twins' implosion continues. Losing 11-3, Bautista homers again, Delmon Young pulling the Milton Bradley routine in LF and getting booed (KW will probably trade for him now).... Duensing and Slowey absolutely hammered. 8 losses in a row, 12-26 (12.5 GB), previous worst record under Gardenhire 26-33 in 2006.

6 man rotation already coming under fire from former big league pitcher Mike Marshall... http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,6546565.column

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2..._the_summi.html How many wins will it take to win the AL Central?

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 14, 2011 -> 09:00 PM) Don't forget the highest parking $23.00 in ALL of baseball. Which is why the overall price for a family of four (tickets, parking, food, souvenirs) averages out to around $260, or $25 per person above the "mean" ticket price of $40.67. Fourth highest in the majors, behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ May 14, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) The Blue Jays released Thomas because Thomas asked to be released. But they ate a huge amount of money, too. Wasn't it something like $6 million? I wish I had a job that guaranteed me $6 million NOT TO PLAY/WORK for 3 months or so and my bosses would still pay me for doing nothing. Well, with corporate executives who get fired, I guess it's no different. Their "golden parachutes" pay them a heckuva lot more than Big Frank ever made.

Why do you want to tear apart one of your theoretical strengths (at least not obvious weaknesses) by trading Ramirez for Reyes? We would "rent" Reyes for the rest of the season when we're already out of contention (arguably) and then just get the compensation picks, which would MAYBE result in a player or two that ends up contributing in 2015? Meanwhile, next year we are forced to play Eduardo Escobar at SS or acquire someone like Nick Punto/Adam Everett. Or give the job to Lillibridge. We're definitely not moving Gordon Beckham back to his collegiate position.

RH hitters at .169 versus Floyd, lefties at .254. That ball hit to Rios really knuckled, hit right on the seams. Didn't have a chance to get it, it was a good play to just keep it in front of him.

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) Really? That's a totally different scenario. You're comparing a team that was 2 years removed from 93 wins to a team this year that's mostly devoid of pitching talent and is somehow pitching well. I'd be surprised if the Indians finish over .500. http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/05/...ell-yeah-sorta/ I don't think any person in baseball would argue that Carmona, Alex White or Justin Masterson aren't talented. Jeanmar Gomez, fine, I'll give you. But until Tomlin and Talbot and Carlos Carrasco (who's injured) prove they are complete frauds, as well as LHP Drew Pomeranz in AAA, they look to be in a lot better shape than we are, and certainly going forward into the future.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) And the Sox increased payroll this year... Running a business isnt about hoping for best case scenarios every year, if they want to be successful over long periods of time they will need to make profit some years. Do you want them to run negative? If they've made $140 million in profits since the World Series, I don't see any reason to believe they'll be losing money now. I certainly don't buy the idea anymore that they need to tear the entire team apart if we're out of the race. It just shows, though, how effective KW and JR have been in their "crying poor" soundbites over the years that it's now become common wisdom to accept at face value. If there was a concern, they never would have added Manny Ramirez last year. And the White Sox have to be spending less money than just about any franchise on the draft and scouting/development. If they are spending a HIGH amount in this area, they consequently have the worst ROI of any MLB team over the last five years, that much is not in doubt. YES, CUE DAVE WILDER JOKES, I KNOW....that scandal was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, not millions.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 14, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) http://harvardsportsanalysis.files.wordpre...ckers-costs.jpg This was the Packers' expenses from 2009, approximately $230 million. I would venture to say a baseball team costs a lot more money to run, so you can see how much expenses are even if you are bringing in a lot of revenue. So because the Green Bay Packers spent $23+ million in marketing two years ago, in a completely different sport, you're assuming the White Sox are spending the same amount? What? The NFL broadcasting rights deal alone is currently at $20 BILLION. The current MLB deal is $3 billion for 7 years. You can't compare NFL teams and MLB teams.

Just a few days ago, everybody's favorite agent threw baseball's pooh-bahs into a serious froth. All it took was Boras telling the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo that some teams are collecting $80 million to $90 million from Major League Baseball just in revenue sharing and central-fund welfare -- and essentially stuffing much of it in their mattresses. Well, not quite. Not that there weren't some shreds of truth in there someplace. But we've run those figures past all sorts of people who ought to know. None of them thinks that particular number adds up. However … Boras would have been a lot closer to the actual facts if he'd just included teams' local TV and radio payouts, which are heftier than you might think. So we did that. And that led us to … Our second conclusion: If you add in that local TV-radio money -- and if you add only that money -- you'd be astounded by how many clubs seem to be running up higher revenues than payrolls before they print a ticket. We've added up all the revenue streams. And here's what we found: If we just use the raw numbers, it appears that at least 10 teams collected $90 million-plus this year before they opened their ticket windows, let one car into their parking lots or sold one slice of pizza. That number, once again, was $90 million-plus. By at least 10 teams. But not everyone in baseball thinks that's a valid figure. Some argue that $10 million of that $90 million-plus shouldn't count -- because each team is required to pay $5 million into a pension fund and another $5 million into an MLB operations fund. OK, so fine. Make it $80 million-plus. Whichever it is, we're convinced our estimate is on target. Do the math yourself. • Central fund (includes national TV, radio, Internet, licensing, merchandising, marketing, MLB International money): Each team, from the Marlins to the Yankees, gets the same central-fund payout. And that check comes to slightly over $30 million per team if you deduct the $10 million in pension and operations fees, or just over $40 million if you don't. • Revenue sharing: Only income-challenged teams get a revenue-sharing check. But you should never forget that those checks are a lot larger than your average rebate check from Target. This sport shared $400 million in revenue this year -- more than the gross national product of Western Samoa. Now every club's payout is different. But the five neediest teams -- which we believe to be the Marlins, Pirates, Rays, Blue Jays and Royals -- averaged somewhere in the vicinity of $35 million in revenue-sharing handouts per team. And that still left over $200 million -- more than $20 million a club -- for the rest of the "payees" to divvy up. • Local TV/radio/cable: Good luck getting these exact figures. But we know that 29 of the 30 teams make at least $15 million a year in local broadcast money, and no team rakes in under $12 million. Obviously, some clubs collect much, much more than that. Or own their networks. Or both. Add $30 million, plus $35 million, plus $15 million, and what do you get? That would be $80 million. At least. Before these teams spin their turnstiles once.[/i] http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...rumblings091119 So we can be pretty accurate with some of our numbers. White Sox at close to $80 million just for broadcasting rights. Central Fund=$30-40 million, depending on how you look at it (net is $30 million) Ticket Sales=$70-110 million (anywhere from 2 million - 2.7 million) Parking/Food/Concessions=$35-45 million Once again, taking the MOST conservative numbers, $235-245 million for revenues.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ May 14, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) Don't forget that the White Sox also have to pay taxes....just like any other business. You mean like Exxon, G.E. and Bank of America? With creative accounting and offshore accounts, a lot of Fortune 500 companies don't pay any taxes these days. I'm sure the IRS makes sure the players do, but the teams themselves? I'd like to see the tax returns for the White Sox since Reinsdorf took over.

Of course, for every line item, we can go back and forth. For example, merchandise/souvenir sales from all over the world. I live in Korea and 50% of the hats I see here are some variation of the White Sox hat, all licensed through MLB Properties, New Era, etc. It's also not taking into consideration monies from MLB Extra Inning packages, MLB.TV. MLB Gameday Audio, MLB International/World Baseball Classic, etc. Spring training costs can also be written off against taxes, for example. If the majority of "small market" teams have been very profitable (think of teams like the Royals or Pirates) by keeping artifically low payrolls and simply taking in the revenue sharing from the larger market clubs, there's still no way any of those teams are spending anything close to $50 million per year on all these other costs we're talking about, or they wouldn't be booking any profits. Very, very conservatively, there's at least a $70 million-80 million spread between revenues and player payroll. There's no way anyone can convince me they're coming close to spending that.

And they're sharing/splitting a lot of the costs of the Glendale ST site with the Dodgers. I'm sure they still net LOSE money on spring training, but perhaps not as much as one might think.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 14, 2011 -> 10:06 AM) Youre probably overestimating revenue and underestimating costs. The White Sox have employees and staff 365 days a year. The Sox have a spring training facility that costs money. We just have no idea how much it costs for things like transportation, travel and other operating costs. Where am I overestimating revenue? Forbes, sportsmarketingreport, Fan Cost index numbers, there's not really any debate about them. I might also be underestimating parking/souvenirs/concessions spending. I came up with pretty a conservative estimate. They have spring training costs, but they also derive spring training revenues. I'm pretty sure they have sweetheart deals with the airlines (when/if they ever fly commercial, such as Southwest) in return for advertising. There has to be a lot of trades engineered by the marketing/promotions department, where they're not booking revenue directly but the expenditures are dramatically lowered. Same thing with hotels for road trips. Last year, we were under the assumption (or the year before) they took losses because of the spring training complex construction and the Viciedo contract. I wonder if those two were figured into the Forbes calculations or not. And the majority of the secondary staff/support doesn't work 365 days per year, they're only working 81 home dates at the stadium.

I was reading where the Indians have recently faced 7 out the top 20 pitchers in the AL in ERA in their recent stretch. I'm sure we went through something similar in our 4-18 stretch, too. Probably worse. Between the A's/Angels/Rays, that's some stout pitching. And then Felix with the M's. Verlander and Scherzer aren't too shabby, either. And it sucks the Indians are missing Felix. Then again, I never thought Fister would win the game yesterday, or they'd have a 4-2 lead going into the 9th.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 14, 2011 -> 10:32 AM) Exactly. More than likely, the Sox aren't going to lose money this year. Moreover they made a ton of money last year according to Forbes, so they can afford a down year if they have one. What I find fascinating is this notion that the Sox have to draw 2.5M to break even. Chairman Reinsdorf never gives out that type of stuff. It's largely reporters speculation. Reporters, who have the same access to Forbes as we do, and who can see Forbes estimates, believe the Sox need to draw $2.5M just to break even. They have to do their jobs a lot better. If we drew 2,700,000 fans, we'd book $110 million in ticket revenues. That would put our net revenue in the $225-235 million range, or a full $100 million over our player payroll. Which doesn't even take into consideration profits of roughly $50 million over the last two years. They can intimate it's all being rolled back into team, but how is that possible??? Where?

I found this at wsi (cws05champs gets the credit) Assuming the Sox play 32 WGN games as they did in the regular season last year, 18 WCIU and 112 CSN games I have estimates the total revenue: 32 WGN games (@ ~$350K): $11,200,000 18 WCIU games (@$200K): $ 3,600,000 112 CSN games (@ $450K): $50,400,000 ---------------- $64,800,000 Sox Average ticket price was $38.65 and average attendance was 27,091 giving you and estimated: $1,047,067 per game or $84,812,435 for the 81 games at home. That's a total of $149, 612,435 revenue just from TV and attendance. This does not include concessions, parking, merchandise, advertising, spring training revenue and revenue form their Silver Chalice digital media firm among other things. And of course it does not take into account expenses such as their lease, operating costs for the stadium and staff etc. But you could confidently say they bring in well over $200M in revenue. You can also add in $14.3 million per team for national broadcast rights, shared equally (7 year agreement pays $3 billion, or $429 million per season and will at least double if not triple when it's renegotiated after the 2012 season). So you have $64.8 million from local/regional and $14.3 million from national rights (ESPN/TBS/TNT), so that's $79.1 million alone. The average ticket price this year is $40.67. (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6281410) Right now average season attendance is at 22,180. Even in any WORST case scenario (let's say we continue to average only 22,000 for the remainder of the season), the White Sox will STILL generate at least $72.5 million from ticket sales alone. So right there, you're talking $72.5 million + $79.1-89 million=$151.6-161 million. If we average the 27,000 of 2010, it's $89 million from ticket sales alone. For concessions/parking/merchandising or souvenirs, I'll throw out 3 numbers and try to come up with some type of average. The cost to take a family of four to a Cubs game, using the Fan Cost Index formula, is $305.60, and the White Sox is $258.68, the third- and fourth-highest totals in baseball. Let's say the average family of four goes to a game (father/mother/2 kids)....that's an average of $65 per person entering the stadium, essentially $25 X 4=$100 over the average ticket price of $40.67. So let's say 40% of the attendance at Sox games is families, 20% are the type who may or may not pay for parking/buy food before the game or bring it in, don't buy souvenirs, maybe they buy 1-2 beers, etc. (we'll put them at $10) and the other 50% spend let's say, $17.50 on average above their ticket prices.... 40%=$25/person above ticket prices 20%=$10/person 40%=$17.5/person That's another $35-40 million booked in revenue (based on 2010 attendance). So you're looking at somewhere between $185-195 milllion for total revenues. Minus $129 million payroll, of course you've also got insurance (for example, Peavy's contract), running the minor league system, draft/scouting, front office/admin, security for games, the stadium lease (pretty negligible), etc. Then there's $68 million/20 years for US Cellular naming rights, or $3.4 million per season (about one stupid Manny Ramirez contract). That doesn't even take into account a litany of corporate sponsorships, promotional events and tie-ins, stadium signage/billboards, executive suite rentals, etc. As cws05champs guessed, the overall revenues have to be in the $200-220 million + range. Are the White Sox capable of spending $70-80 million in other areas??? How? We certainly know it's on not the draft or are Dominican and Venezuelan operations, since they and Jerry Krause seemingly haven't produced any results yet. Ozzie and KW don't make THAT much. Although Ozzie would like to, I'm sure. He keeps reminding us that he has a new house to pay for and his twitter feed to maintain. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseba...Sox_334758.html Forbes has us at $26-28 million for EBITDA and overall revenue of $210 million.