ILMOU

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) I really believe he's not going anywhere. I just can't imagine waking up in November or December and seeing the headline, "White Sox fire Ozzie Guillen." I just can't see it. I fear this as well with the present vibe I'm getting. JR's gonna call for a group hug, and keep the status quo for next year, possibly only promoting KW and making Hahn GM. This is completely unacceptable.

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 05:51 PM) Hmmm ... 45 mil plus personal pride no money and admitting failure. .. tough choice. It would be only 28 mil left after next season, and yes it seems unrealistic, but if he remains unplayable, I don't see him sitting on a bench as a 25th man, never playing, and collecting a paycheck, for three. more. seasons. The level of pariah status would be unbearable for anyone. Some other scenario could transpire where we save some money on Dunn, eventually. Time will tell. Hopefully, he rebounds and makes this moot, but I think he just may be Done.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 11:11 AM) I think that is probably correct. It is called 3 for 81 against lefties, etc, etc , There is something really wrong here with his approach and everything when it comes to hitting. We have heard it all from observers including "he just looks lost up there." Question is can he recover for next season. Can you imagine another collosal flop year from Adam Dunn? I'm thinking, perhaps maybe only hoping, that if Dunn is hitting .190 or lower next September 1st, he'll announce a retirement.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 11, 2011 -> 10:54 AM) Thanks for the green, information... And no, I wasn't. Dunn isn't hitting in that situation yesterday, if Rios and Dunn hit a single in the 1st Alexi and Paulie hit a single in the 6th Alexi and Paulie hit a single in the 8th So to blame Ozzie for not PH for Dunn in the 9th is an overreaction at its finest. What happened previously is irrelevant to the situation at present, period. Ozzie chose to bat an .037 hitter in a game situation when he had a much better choice available. Methinks he wants to avoid any situation that would make him look foolish for his roster choices. And let's not kid ourselves, it's been made clear this season that KW does NOT have full roster control. The fact that our GM and Manager could not function together for the good of the team in 2011 reflects badly on both of them as executives in an organization. As much as I wouldn't mind seeing KW have the reins for one more year with a new manager, I'm now thinking that they both need to go to really get the fresh start we need. The nightmare scenario of Ozzie surviving with KW gone better not happen, or I'll be very VERY ANNGGRRYYYY!!!

I'm indifferent. Just hoping he's noticably better in ST and into the season. Last chance for semi-redemption.

I like Morel, and was wondering when some power would start showing up. He had a respectable number of XBH in Charlotte, and the dropoff this year was dramatic, to say the least. Encouraging lately, and especially last night obviously. Maybe he gives us 725 OPSish production with continued solid defense in 2012. There's no good, non-expensive options, so unless something is obtained in trade, he's our guy, I think, no matter what. Hopefully, Saladino is pushing our present crop of infielders by 2013. Outside chance for Gilmore too. I think Escobar needs to hit better in the minors before I consider him a major leaguer.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 08:24 PM) Axelrod looks to be from the Broadway/McCullough pitching family Looked like a lotta meatballs.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) I'm worried about the 2nd starter in that group. You have a lot of faith in Stewart and Humber. Too much. Buehrle will still be here in 2013, IMO, possibly his final year with the team.

Chances of making it to the WS, according to me: Phils 50% Brewers 25% Atl 15% AZ 10% BoSox 40% NYY 30% Tex 15% Det 15%

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) What is with the straw man responses? Yes, we made it interesting on August 5th, 6th and 7th, against a Minnesota team we had not beaten, IN Minnesota. Yes, we are done before labor day. Do you see how those two things are not mutually exclusive? Do you also see how the point of making it interesting on August 5th was that we beat the Twins when it actually counted a great deal? I hope we're at least interesting in April next year. That will be quite an accomplishment, a real building block for the future. Whatever, dude. Maybe if you revise your expectations enough, this can still be a great season.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 09:41 AM) Of course I'm not referring to these last three games. I'm referring to the three games from August 5th-7th, when the Twins were a game and a half behind us at 8 out, many here argued they were still even in the division race. We were 6.5 out with 6 left to play with the Tigers. The Tigers had also just gone 22-22 over their preceding 44 games, which suggested to many that they weren't going to finish too many games over .500. I know the revisionists here will pretend like all of these things are irrelevent, but the fact of the matter is that we could have folded up and headed for 5th place but made it interesting and effectively ended Minnesota's season. We're done before Labor Day and this is making it interesting? That's a pretty low threshhold.

Should be a strong crop of playoff teams in the NL. I have the Phillies beating the BoSox in the WS, but Milwaukee or Atl coming out of the NL wouldn't shock me. Best BrewCrew since '82.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) I would rate the possible scenarios from best to worst Kenny promoted, new GM, Oz gone Kenny stays, Oz gone Both gone Both stay Oz stays, KW gone --> that would be a disaster We agree.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) Just watch boys and girls, Ozzie and Kenny are both going to be back. We're about to go through a worst nightmare type of scenario. As fathom indicated, the WORST case is Ozzie surviving KW. That will ensure a puppet for a GM and a team full of Juan Pierres. I hear Aaron Miles is available, Punto too!

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 03:11 PM) LF De Aza SS Lillibridge 1B Konerko DH Dunn RF Viciedo CF Rios C AJ/Flowers 2B Beckham 3B Morel Rotation: Buehrle, Peavy, Sale, Humber, Stewart Pen: Reed, Crain, Ohman Deal: Danks, Ramirez, Santos, Floyd, Quentin, and Thornton One of the few correct things Ozzie did this year was identifying that Lillibridge is a much better OF than IF. SS??? Good luck with that.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 02:58 PM) Sure glad we continue to play Pierre every game. We have to see what he can do.

QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) The Sox seem to really have boughten into the whole mentality of "It's a marathon, not a sprint" in regards to the baseball season. Which in most cases is true, but it SHOULD NOT be the White Sox thoughts anymore after the last two seasons. Having a winning April should be priority #1 from now on. The bats can't struggle in April like ALWAYS. Priority #2 BEAT THE CENTRAL teams. After starting 11-22 they've played 12 over .500 and in the second half have performed better within the Division. All of that s*** needs to happen in the first half too and hopefully the new manager can't stress that enough to these players. Win in April + Win vs. the Central = October Baseball Thanks. Getting out of the gate is certainly very important. We knew it would be this year, but still seemed to lack the sense of urgency needed to avoid it. One COULD say that this another instance where the org's "too loyal/too comfortable" culture bites us in the ass. I put it almost entirely on the players, myself. But I didn't believe we were completely doomed in this division at 11-22 either. Still don't.

This was done for the AL obviously, but the Astros bottomed out at 15 games under .500 in 2005 before winning 88 or 89 and making it to the WS. What was the Twins low-water mark in '06? I think it was well beyond the 33 game mark.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 09:10 PM) I believe coops contract ends this year. Probably it for him too. Sure hope not. The org should approach Coop separately and get him locked up.

Not LaRussa, please. I'd like a manager who specifically does NOT have a giant ego or see himself as the "face of the franchise".

Good thread, tough call. Seems like Zach has a bit more upside - can Coop teach him another pitch?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) Dunn might very well be finished. Yeah, I'm not confident in him turning it around either. If it's obvious next spring that he's truly incapable of even hitting 200 anymore, I think we'll catch a lucky break with him retiring. It's an amazing collapse.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 10:26 AM) There's nothing that leads me to believe that he does not. Bigger problem is, Kenny making spur of the moment decisions when he's angry. Wanting to get rid of Pierre and Walker. I wonder if his anger at Nationals GM, Mike Rizzo, at the trade deadline last year is the reason Hudson is in Arizona. Oh, these are bad ideas? I wasn't aware. Don't make me tell you how empty Pierre's OBP is, even with his dramatic improvement from June onward. A lead off hitter who can't get into scoring position with either his bat OR his legs isn't really getting the job done.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) 1.) Florida is beginning the Oz era. Don't they have a new stadium as well? He NEEDS a 4-year deal for the feel good story to be complete. The "we got our man" in Ozzie. We got him! Three year deal won't fool anybody; four year deal and the city is ready to have a parade for its man, Ozzie. It'll be 4 year I predict. 2.) Yes they will! You got it right. Ozzie won't last 4 years working for a fellow hothead in Loria. The Phillies, Braves and Nats are way ahead of them. I predict he'll get fired in year 2.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) If the Tigers go 15-6, the Sox have no chance to even force a playoff. If Detroit merely plays about .500 ball, 10-11, the Sox would need to finish 19-4 to force a one game playoff. Stranger things have happened, but not often. When Hibby made one of his "hope" threads a few weeks ago, I think he left out the '07 Phillies, who trailed the Mets by 7 games with 17 to play and won their division. Choking was in that Mets team's DNA, though, and these Tigers don't seem to have that problem.