Chicago White Sox

I'll happily pay $20M/year for a 3.5 to 4.0 WAR DH if that's what we think he is going forward. Honestly think he could be a Nelson Cruz type steal in this market.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:35 PM) I think Anderson, Burger and cease would get it done to be quite honest. See, that's probably the most I'd consider giving up right now. I hate the idea of selling low on Anderson, but Yelich is a special player. If we did such a move, who would play SS? Sanchez? Would they consider moving Leury there temporarily? The problem with trading Anderson is we don't have as much IF depth as some people would like to believe. We'd pretty much have to add a SS or 3B in free agency in 2019, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but does put some pressure on us to fill a need in order to be competitive.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:37 PM) In 2016 it would have been better for him if he never played the field by about 1/2 a win. In 2017 he would have been about 1/2 a win worse. Do you mind sharing your math? I'd love to see how all this is calculated to maybe do this myself in the future.

Since Balta only speaks in WAR, can someone calculate what Martinez's fWAR would be if he was simply a DH? I honestly think the runs he cost his team defensively might be worse than the DH positional adjustment.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 03:17 PM) WTF is an "Elite DH"? Like that's the worst statement I want to see to describe a guy we're signing. "He's a wonderful player in the tiny, limited role we want him for!" Jackson was worth his money in 2013. It was still a terrible move. How exactly is 600+ plate appearances a "tiny, limited" role? If he can be a top 10 hitter, who the f*** cares if he plays the field? You think the Red Sox regret having David Ortiz? How about us with Jim Thome? Martinez is a terrible fielder anyways, so moving to DH full-time might actually improve his value. I'll happily pay $20M/year for an elite hitter regardless of where he plays.

If they can sign Cousins, I'll start believing again. Until then I'll assume they'll land the 2018 version of Carlos Boozer and lock in a long-term stay in NBA hell.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 02:52 PM) Reports are saying JD offer from the BoSox is 5years and $100mm. I realize this won't go over well on the board, but if that's all it took? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Trade a few prospects (Burger, Cease, Anderson) for Yelich and let's roll. I'd rather do this now than wait for maybe Machado and end up wth Donaldson or something. If can get two guys like Martinez and Yelich for like $32mm combined in the door? And a sure thing? And it costs just a few prospects? I'd roll those dice over Machado all day. Yelich Moncada JD Martinez Abreu Garcia Nicky D at DH Nunez 1-2 year deal. Castillo Yolmer Within no time you have Eloy up, move rotate JD at OF/1B/DH. Your OF is now set with Yelich and Eloy. You have power. And you still have a bunch of arms that are just on the verge of competing consistently in the MLB. (Kopech, Hansen, Gio, Lopez) You have to plug a few holes moving forward... SS, 3B.. but that's it. It's also not mortgaging the future as one could consider $20mm for JD "affordable" and Yelich at under $14mm "affordable". I realize being paitent is key.. I get that.. I also have watched enough from the FO of the Sox where I don't see them hitting a homerun as necessary when push comes to shove. If this is an opportunity I'd take it. I think you can sign Martinez without compromising the future. Giving up what it would take for Yelich is counter-productive at this point. Anything involving Jimenez, Kopech, Robert, or Hansen just doesn't make sense this early in the rebuild and I'm certain the Marlins would want one of them as the headliner plus a bunch more.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 02:28 PM) I really like Robert, but batting practice results have really taken spring fluff to a new level. You have to remember a lot of people haven’t seen this guy play in person before. The fact that the batting practice results are living up to the hype is only a good thing.

QUOTE (Username @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 01:16 PM) Boston supposedly only offering him around 5 years $100M. No wonder the Sox are interested in that range. Even if he’s a fringe corner guy/DH he’s a top 10 hitter in baseball. Exactly, if he’a a top 10 hitter, you do that deal in a heartbeat IMO. Don’t even care if he’s simply a DH going forward. He’s been nearly David Ortiz good the last few years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 01:47 PM) "Edwin Jackson has put up $75 million in value in the past 4 years and we only have to pay him $52 million for the next 4. No wonder the Cubs are interested" - Prior to the 2013 season. You sure love picking one random example and using it as the end all be all. Do you have any objective reasoning for why this guy couldn’t be an elite DH for his age 30 to 34 seasons?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2018 -> 12:33 PM) Lenyn Sosa I think Baseball America mentioned he'll be in our top 30. Other LatAm guys I think have a chance to make the jump next year are Anthony Coronado, Ramon Beltre, Felix Mercedes, Franklin Reyes, & Carlos Perez. I actually think Dedelow is a pretty intriguing prospect and will start cracking top 30 lists next year. Kade McClure & Lincoln Henzman have great shots. Corey Zangari is another guy that we've all probably forgot about that actually has some serious upside.

I've said it before, but Robert has #1 prospect in baseball potential. Glad to see a guy like Longenhagen hype him up a bit.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 06:57 PM) 18:$10M, 19:$10.5M club option ($1M buyout), 20:$11.5M club option ($0.5M buyout) Josh Harrison's exactly the kind of winning player the White Sox need...but not sure about the asking price. Would much rather leverage assets at the minor league level for a relatively younger player than overpaying for vets in their 30's (unless you're talking Machado/Harper/Arenado as FA's, who are anomalies). No he isn’t. He may be better than Sanchez, but by how much? I see absolutely zero reason to acquire him.

Excited to hear that Sheets is regularly getting loft on the ball and the source isn’t Merkin.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 05:24 PM) My friends who are die-hard fans do not. Yeah my friends and wife (all die-hards) act as if he never existed.

As much as I’d love to add Yelich, I can’t see us paying what would certainly be a steep price for him right now.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 11:31 AM) Or Aroldis Chapman. The weird thing about the Sammy stuff is that Ricketts seems to be the only one who gives a s***. And he didn't even own the team then. The fans want him back, nobody feels betrayed by any steroid use. Say what you want, but those were fun times while it was going on and those guys were just clobbering baseballs. There's nothing for him to apologize for, just a weird grudge Ricketts is holding onto. Cubs fans want Sosa back? That’s news to me.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 16, 2018 -> 03:04 PM) It would be interesting to hear what it really means for our 15-30 to be weak (and I don't disagree with this, compared to pads/braves/etc). I actually think that group has a good chance to have some MLB productivity compared to others. I also don't know if i have a list, but that 15-30 will contain players such as Cordell, Tilson, Fisher, Call, Zevala, Clarkin, Burdi, Burr, Thiera. What sticks out: they are old and nearer their ceilings. And to me the difference is the other 15-30s have players more like Luis Curbelo and Adolfo that are young and raw but expected to ascend and be the next top 10. "Deeper". The white sox have one huge glut of age groups moving in at once. So that's my interpretation would like to hear others. I think you hit it on the head. I wouldn't call our 16 to 30 weak, but I would definitely say it lacks the upside that other high end systems have. I think the two biggest factors driving that is our general reluctance to draft high school kids and not seeing a ton of progress (so far) with our LatAm signings. If you follow our minor league system closely, our lower level full season clubs are routinely filled with college draft picks that are probably a year or two or old simply because we don't have enough young guys pushing for those roles. To your point, we need more guys like Luis Curbelo & Amado Nunez in the system, where if everything suddenly clicks (even if that's unlikely) you have top 100 prospect upside.

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Jan 15, 2018 -> 03:54 PM) The bigger question is what to do with Avi......Market seems bad for everyone, especially guys with 2 years of control or less left. I really don't think there is room for him in our future outfield. Sox don't have anyone with any sort of potential for future relevance to play CF in the Majors this year unless you think Engel may be able to hit...I don't. If they could get either Tapia or Dahl from Colorado plus a couple fliers I think I'd take it at this point, but I doubt Colorado would part with either of them. Do you trust Avi to have another good season? I don't so that is why I feel this is a dilemma. If the return isn’t there, then we have no choice but holding onto Avi. While I’m not as optimistic as others in believing that he’ll suddenly figure out how to loft the ball, I’m willing to find out if I don’t get back at least one pretty good prospect for him.

One of the better football games I’ve seen in recent memory.

I still don’t see how the Cubs will be successful on their own. They don’t have nearly the historical significance of the Yankees and even the YES Network has the Nets during the off-season. I think if the Cubs were smart they’d partner with the Blackhawks.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 14, 2018 -> 11:16 AM) He has been around for 6 years. I once read where the average DR prospect takes at least 7 years to develop, so at the very least, he isn't ahead of the curve, To be fair he took over an operation that was probably as low as you can go. I thin he has a couple more years at least before you can say he failed though. Some of these guys have to develop. But it is hard to pick out a 15 or 16 year old and say future star major leaguer. It's hard in any sport. I would imagine basketball would be the easiest. Lebron is a no brainer, but take these guys when they are sophomores and juniors in high school and project them in one of the hardest if not the hardest sport to project, is something where everyone fails. If the Sox didn't trade for Shields and all things remained the same, this thread probably does not exist. I do now at one of the seminars I was at during Soxfest last year, they were really projecting a Lat Am breakout in 2017. I don't think it happened to the scale they were hoping, maybe this year, but their development staff seemed pretty confident their LatAm signings would soon become household names to White Sox fans. To me it’s not about a failure to sign a future star, but the fact that Paddy’s signings aren’t even developing enough to crack our top 30. I haven’t really seen a reason for optimism unless you really believe in last year’s class. I hope I’m wrong and we start seeing some of these guys finally make an impact in full season ball. I just don’t think we’ll be able maintain a reasonably strong system long-run unless we see massive improvement in our LatAm development.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 14, 2018 -> 09:28 AM) Those orgs (add Rangers and Padres) use international signings as a 2nd draft. The Sox really haven't for the most part, which has contributed to a lackluster farm over the years. That said, don't forget Robert....he's basically the equivalent of an entire round of signings (maybe 2). Whether that's the best use of assets remains to be seen. But they did use the international market. The Sox have been spending their bonus pool money for the most part since Paddy joined the organization. Sure, they haven’t gone into the penalty prior to Robert, but they have signed a ton of guys and very few have “worked out”. I can’t believe there is another organization with only 2 to 3 LatAm signings in their top 30 prospect list other than maybe the Orioles. We’ve given Paddy seven full years and I’m not seeing the transformation I was expecting. I think a case be made that it isn’t a scouting issue and more of a development one, which would suggest reasons for optimism with Getz in charge. Having said, I turn back to the Franklin Reyes signing. He was our biggest get in his class (dollars wise) and he almost immediately had to be moved to 1B as a 17 year old. That’s pretty pathetic IMO and supports the notion Paddy may not be as good of a scout as we were all hoping. And while Paddy most definitely deserves credit for signing Tatis, did Hahn talk to him at all about including him in the Shields trade? If so, did Paddy have any inkling of what we might of had in this kid? Again, just another question mark that gives me cause for concern. And one last point, but what LatAm signings do we think might jump to Kannapolis next year? I’m sure there will be a reliever or two, but after that who else might make the jump? Carlos Perez probably. Maybe Nunez? Will they rush Reyes, Sosa, Beltre, or Coronado? Again, where is the progress?

So I’m not sure if this will be a popular opinion, but I’m going to say it anyways. Marco Paddy has failed to live up to expectations. For years we said we had to give him more and more time to evaluate his performance given the age of the players he’d be signing. It’s now been seven full years with him in charge of our international operations and I’m still waiting to see his impact in full season ball. In fact, I’m struggling to identify how many of his guys have even made it to full season ball, let alone have been successful. I don’t believe a single signing has reached AA with the exception of the one traced for James Shields (not Paddy’s fault there obviously). That’s pretty damn sad if true. One of his first signings is Luis Martinez and while he’s flashed at times, he has not been able to get over the high A hump. Other early signings that ultimately fizzled out in A ball were Johan Cruz & Antonio Rodriguez. I can’t really think of many other signings from those first few classes to really do much of anything, although I’m sure I’m missing a couple. Obviously Adolfo has real promise, but when compared to his peers in Eloy Jimenez & Gleybar Torres, he’s way behind the development curve (partly due to injuries admittedly). But he’s just one guy (and probably our most prolific signing) and that’s kind of the point. Is there even one other LatAm signing not named Luis Robert that would be a clear top 30 prospect at this point? The closest IMO would be Amado Nunez and he’s very debatable. To me that’s clear evidence the program has been an object failure. So to avoid the TLDR posts, I’m greatly concerned these failures will impact our rebuild in the long-run unless we see sudden & vast improvements. Teams like the Cubs, Yankees, & Astros have been successful because they’ve been able to use their LatAm signings to fill holes & maintain their winning ways. Will be able to do the same without the prospect depth these LatAm signings are supposed to provide? What say you soxtalk?

I don’t like people referring to J.D. Martinez as simply a “1B/DH” type, as if he’s exchangeable with these other scrubs. The dude is a top 5 to 10 hitter in all of baseball. He’d instantly transform our lineup into one of the better ones in the AL. Again, if the market is so suppressed this year that the best he can do is say 5/$125M come spring training, I’d be 100% willing to do that deal. I most definitely think someone gives him closer to 6/$180M before it’s all said & done though.