Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:24 PM) That initial deal for Stanton looked pretty attractive SF also isn't rebuilding really I believe that rumored deal was proven to be BS.

Did Warren Sapp sexually assault Kris Jenkings or something? Otherwise, why is that comment in this thread.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:21 PM) Don't feel like they have the prospects to move But the Giants do?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:53 PM) I dont think people are saying Balt would want that, they are saying that is their tolerance. And I agree. Exactly, I’ve said multiple times I doubt they’d do it, but Rutherford is a polarizing enough of a prospect that you never know with an organization like the Orioles . Basically there is a small area of overlap between what I’d be willing to give up and what Baltimore might accept (again not likely) that it’s worth throwing out a token offer. I wouldn’t give up any of the numerous untouchables I listed earlier in this thread.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) Except the risk in this scenario is significant with a very real chance of just pissing away assets. If the Orioles agree to trade Manny in December it's going to cost very significant assets, not lesser prospects that we see as expendable all for the opportunity to hope Manny does the Sox a solid and limits his future earnings 2 months away from free agency because he really likes "Sox culture". It's in no way a risk worth taking. All depends on the price. I specifically mentioned Rutherford as the type of centerpiece I’d be willing to gamble on because I think we’d be willing to recoup most of that value back by the deadline. The difference I’m more than willing to forgoe if it gives me a slight advantage in free agency. Again, I doubt the Orioles accept a Rutherford + Adams package, but I can see the logic behind taking that risk if they would.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:34 PM) Why in the world would the Orioles want Rutherford for Machado? Am I missing something here? If this type of trade is available, why doesn't Hahn send Kevan Smith to Washington for Harper? Rutherford was a top 50 prospect as recently as last July. Not sure I get the comparison to Kevan Smith.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) What's the point in adding him for one year when you aren't trying to compete? QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) Unless the plan is to then flip Machado at the deadline to a team in contention this would be the dumbest move we could possibly make right now. Give him a taste of your organization for the first four months of the seasons. Try to convince him to sign an extension during that timeframe. If not, trade him at the deadline for what should be similar value but express the fact you’re going to do everything in your power to bring him back. To Rick’s point, sometimes you need to take a risk. If we’re prepared to offer as much as anyone else, getting him familiar with our team could be the diffence between him picking us and a team like the Yankees or Phillies.

Call me crazy, but I’d do Rutherford & an arm like Adams for Machado without an extension. Doesn’t seem like it would be enough, but maybe the Orioles are obsessed with Blake for some reason.

Sierra one of the other pieces in the Ozuna deal. Still not a great return IMO, but better than it initially sounded.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 03:53 PM) Henry SchulmanVerified account @hankschulman #sfgiants are listening to offers for their No. 2 slot in Thursday's Rule 5 draft. Usually those are swapped for cash. Giants have not decided to deal it or not. 1 reply 1 retweet 1 like James Fox‏ @JamesFox917 18m18 minutes ago I've heard that #WhiteSox have their eye on two players tomorrow. They could be in play here. Come on Yimmy, give us some names!

I thank the baseball gods everyday that we pulled the trigger on our rebuild when we did because we are now kicking it off with a f***ton of talent and should only endure two or three non-competitive seasons if things go as planned. The Marlins are easily looking at a 5 plus year rebuild based on what they got in their first three big trades. Rebuilding is always going to be far more risky/painful when relying on draft picks rather than semi-proven minor leaguers.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) I'll guess Jack Flaherty + Sandy Alcantara + Piscotty or Grichuk for Ozuna Hopefully that’s the case. The bigger the return the more hope I have we get something good back for Avi.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Or the fact that you have 4 spots filled in the rotation rght now and have rodon on the dl till he comes back plus 3 rookies in the rotation. QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) Wouldn't look too far into it Chief I'd like to sign Bucholz and Tillman and try and flip them in July You guys are missing my point. Chavez sucks, he’d simply be a placeholder. A guy like Tillman is a potential flip candidate, but will also cost more money. If you don’t think Kopech will be up until closer to the All-Star break or later, you probably invest in a guy you can flip. If you think he’ll be up by the end of May, you sign a place-holder like Chavez that can be cut when needed. To me, it’s blatantly obvious what this implies assuming the Chavez rumor is true.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) I don't know why I'm discussing this or anybody is because you simply do not trade four top prospects (even though I hate prospects) for Manny when he's a free agent in a year. It makes absolutely no sense as he's not going to sign with anybody before becoming a free agent and getting paid the maximum amount. The Sox can't win the pennant this season with Machado so it would be absurd to deal 4 propsects for a one-year player. That's why I say it's not worth discussing. If you must play fantasy baseball dream of next offseason and let the Sox try to get in the bidding war for Manny. Discussing things like this seem counterproductive. Sorry I elected to take part, but I won't post any more about Manny. It ain't happening just like Otani wasn't going to consider Chicago cause Chciago had no money to dangle to him. Who in the world “hates” prospects? What a bizarre (dumb?) statement...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) Cease is also more than a year younger. What does age have to do with durability concerns? If anything, Cease’s health issues at such a young age should be viewed as a negative.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) I’m surprised by how willing people are to trade Cease. I personally think he’ll be better than Hansen Cease has been handled with baby gloves his entire career. We have no idea what happens when they take the reigns off a bit. While I want to be optimistic, we still need to see signs of him being able to handle a major league starter’s workload. To me Hansen seems like the real deal and a guy who could quickly become a top 5 pitching prospect in no time. Cease has a long road ahead of him before he ever enters that conversation.

QUOTE (Soha @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:35 PM) I would add Moncada and Giolito to the list of untouchables, bringing it to 6. Everyone else is tradable to some degree. If they can pull off a Lopez & Cease for Machado trade, where it includes a window to sign him - I do that trade. Without the window I would give up too little for the Orioles to consider it. But I would not trade any of those top 6 guys for anything. They are what we are building around. Also if they can trade for Machado, and he does insist on playing shortstop - move TA to CF. He has the athleticism to excel out there. I was just talking minor leaguers, but yes I 100% agree about Moncada & Giolito. And I’d include Lopez on that list as well. Those are the seven players I personally wouldn’t trade at the moment. Other than Robert they should all be on the major league roster by the All-Star break (timing is important in a rebuild) and Robert has #1 prospect in all of baseball potential. Anderson & Rodon are on the bubble just a little bit, Tim because of his rough 2017 & general lack of plate discipline and Rodon because of his durability concerns & slightly limited team control. It would take a lot for me to move either guy though.

Cardinals closing in on an Ozuna trade. That should open up the Avi market quite a bit. Will be interesting to see the return to get a general sense of what Avi might bring back, even if he’s no doubt worth less.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 12:18 PM) Or you are getting good value before Cease loses any chance to be considered a starter and Rutherford loses trade value if he continues his hitting struggles. Also don't know how Marlins feel about Blake as they have some former Yanks executives over there now The problem is the Sox just acquired these guys, they most certainly think they’re candidates to improve their value rather than regress.

To me, the Sox have four untouchable prospects at the moment in Jimenez, Kopech, Robert, & Hansen. After that, I’m open to exploring deals as long as I’m not completely exhausting my prospect depth. I still think it’s a year too early to cash in on our prospects though unless a deal is simply too good to pass up.

Going after a stopgap starter the caliber of Chavez tells me they expect Kopech to be up relatively quickly.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:57 AM) How can it be riskier if it's for significantly less money? Free agents fail all the time. The Adam Dunn signing wasn't risky either, was it? At least the young guy won't screw up your major league win/loss record if he craps out. The young guy has zero at-bats in the majors, while the veteran player is a proven superstar. $50M for a guy who has never accomplished anything is a huge risk. Sure, anything can happen, but risk is all about realizing a certain rate of return not about the absolute dollar amount of the investment. Robert has significantly more bust potential even if the downside risk is larger for Machado from a magnitude perspective.

QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:27 AM) Even with extension, highest I would go would be... Anderson, Fulmer, Cease and Sheets. Based on Stanton's return I'd probably end up actually offering Avi, Fulmer, Dunning if we could convince Machado to man third. He's coming with a massive literal price tag. The first offer is way too much IMO. If you’re willing to give up that much, might as well go after Yelich even if the cost is a little more.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) Which makes the Machado and Harper free agencies unprecedented ARod got $250M like 16 years ago, accounting for inflation this is not unprecedented.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:59 AM) That's like saying your friend covered the table's bill at Chili's, so he definitely would do the same at Gibson's. The Sox spending $50 million on a very young international FA isn't all that comparable to a veteran FA who will cost $300+ million. You’re right, the amateur signing is far riskier and much more surprising.